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Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12992 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Japan Airlines new President has confirmed that JAL is unlikely to buy the A380 as they wish to stay with their fleet plan of operating smaller models.

May 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan Airlines Corp., which operates the nation's biggest aircraft fleet, said it is unlikely to buy Airbus SAS A380 airplanes, because the aircraft doesn't fit into its strategy of using smaller planes.

But he doesn't entirely rule out a purchase either

``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

[Fair use excerpt - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...00101&sid=aFe6GEhMJUcU&refer=japan ]

From this, in my opinion, we will see more add-on orders for 773ERs such as we did in December last year.

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12967 times:

I can only laugh about this. They have 72 747s in their fleet and 8 773As. They will replace the older jumbos with 773ERs, but how can he talk of "using smaller aircraft" there??

Probably just a tactic to get a lower price from Airbus for the A380. For routes to the US and to LHR and FRA the A380 is just the right thing for them.


User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12943 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
But he doesn't entirely rule out a purchase either

``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

They'll have to do better than the test cabin on MSN002 we saw earlier this week.


User currently offlineTifoso From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12937 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
They will replace the older jumbos with 773ERs, but how can he talk of "using smaller aircraft" there??

By using two smaller aircraft instead of one larger one?  eyebrow 


User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12895 times:

Airbus should give exclusivity for 10 years to the first Japanese Airline which buys the A380. JAL's president would then stop his useless comments.

What he is really saying is: "we really don't want to participate in the success of the A380, but if it is a success, we'll be forced to join". We already knew that.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12895 times:

LOL

"Japan Airlines in no-Airbus order Shocker"

A really big, big surprise there.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12895 times:

Quoting Tifoso (Reply 3):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
They will replace the older jumbos with 773ERs, but how can he talk of "using smaller aircraft" there??

By using two smaller aircraft instead of one larger one?

My point is that they have masses of the biggest planes currently in service. How can he seriously say their plans are to use smaller planes?


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12879 times:

Quoting Sangas (Reply 2):
They'll have to do better than the test cabin on MSN002 we saw earlier this week.

What do you mean, that the cabin wasn't set out to be luxuroius?


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12830 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
8 773As

That's 13 on order in total. Thus my statement about add-on orders. Thorben, I note you wrote 773A not 773ER, thus my reference to 773ERs for Long Haul and Domestic

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
They have 72 747s in their fleet

As they've signed up for the 747BCF program, they'll continue to convert some of these to freighters when they need. So the larger Airplanes will remain in the fleet, albeit cargo or even PAX.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
"Japan Airlines in no-Airbus order Shocker"

A really big, big surprise there.

I slightly disagree sir. His predecessor ruled it out entirely, at least Mr Nishimatsu has not entirely ruled it out. Just being an optimist sir.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
Probably just a tactic to get a lower price from Airbus for the A380

There's a flip side to that coin. By not entirely ruling it out, perhaps it's just a tactic to get Boeing to lower the price on the 748i to replace some of the 72 in service you've mentioned

Regards, PanAm_DC10

[EDIT - Clarification to Thorben on Model of 777]

[Edited 2006-05-12 12:38:03]


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12804 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
My point is that they have masses of the biggest planes currently in service. How can he seriously say their plans are to use smaller planes?

With Japan's population decreasing, fragmentation of Japan's international traffic amongst several airports, and with new smaller long range planes enabling more airlines to enter the transpacific market, the NRT hub will become less important. And with Japanese operating costs being high, Japanese airlines have to be careful about taking carrying more marginal customers in the back of the plane.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12734 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
Quoting Sangas (Reply 2):
They'll have to do better than the test cabin on MSN002 we saw earlier this week.

What do you mean, that the cabin wasn't set out to be luxuroius?

Perhaps we'll see something somewhat more imaginative on MSN007 when that test cabin debuts. Otherwise I don't understand the test stategy, why test and certifiy more of the same old thing if the goal is to bring an unprecedented product to market?


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12680 times:

Why should JAL have more types and brands of aircraft? Isn't it good airline mangement to use the fewest models and only 1 brand of aircraft? The 747, 777 and other Boeing aircraft meet their current and future anticipated needs. Boeing has accomindated JAL with specialized models (short haul/high pax capacity). Boeing currently makes and is expanding component manufacturing in Japan - not Airbus. Yes, they may tease with Airbus to get a better deal with Boeing, but I suspect they will continue to be 'all Boeing' for the foressable future.

User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12577 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
By not entirely ruling it out, perhaps it's just a tactic to get Boeing to lower the price on the 748i to replace some of the 72 in service you've mentioned

So then he would be buying bigger planes than what he currently has.  Confused


User currently offlinePhaeton From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12577 times:

With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time. In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.


"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12560 times:

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.

JAL wasn't shy about ordering the 787?


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12517 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):



Quoting A380900 (Reply 4):

Not every airline needs or wants the A380 you know  Yeah sure



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12501 times:

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time. In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.

Why? JAL has no probems with slots in Japan or in any other market.....



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12395 times:

Japanese airlines will not buy Airbus plain and simple. They will buy whatever aircraft so long as it's a Boeing. I am simplifying it here but the gist of it is that in Japan they will only buy Boeing and that's a fact. It has nothing to do with what the airlines need or which product is better. So long as the Boeings are relatively close in performance and price, it will be Boeing.

Don't take this wrong, especially Americans here, but Japan sells a lot of products to the US but the only thing Japan can buy from Americans of significant value is airplanes. American products lack quality for the Japanese market. So to reduce the trade deficit Japan buys military gear and Boeings.

Firget the A380, it will never be owned by the Japanese. The 747-8 is a good enough substitute and it's a Boeing.


User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12377 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 17):
Japanese airlines will not buy Airbus plain and simple. They will buy whatever aircraft so long as it's a Boeing.

I disagree. I've heard straight from JAL's and ANA's mouth that they will never order a widebody airplane that they can't leverage both domestically and internationally. They are many reasons why they can't use the A380 domestically, (airports can't handle it being the biggest). So no point ordering the A380 for international service with such a small sub fleet.


User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12361 times:

Quoting Airzim (Reply 18):
They are many reasons why they can't use the A380 domestically, (airports can't handle it being the biggest).

You may disagree if you wish but that's an absolute fact. Your post is wrong because Narita and KIX can handle the A380. That aircraft is not designed for smaller airports anyway.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12345 times:

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time.

In a time frame of 5-10 years, there will be even more bullet trains in Japan that can go even faster, and are less of a hassle to take than a plane and enduring all the checks at the airport. Shinkansen will only get stronger as a competitor to JAL, and the airlines themselves are likely to add more p2p routes with all the new airports opening up. Realistically, the only 2 markets where JAL could do with the A380 are NRT-LAX and NRT-LHR, and I strongly doubt that they would add a whole new plane type just for 2 routes.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12345 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 17):

I agree mostly. A fact you left out is that Japanese companies build a lot of parts of the 767, 777, and especially the 787.

But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12317 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane

This is a problem only for the A350 because it's not a Boeing.  Wink


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12285 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.

Yup, those A380s are selling in HUGE numbers nowadays, aren't they?  Wink
What's your intention in trying to start an A vs B flamefest may I ask?

I'm neutral, like both A and B a/c (except the A320)  Angry So I just wonder why people always try and  stirthepot  when it comes to A and B.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4660 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12272 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Japan Airlines new President has confirmed that JAL is unlikely to buy the A380 as they wish to stay with their fleet plan of operating smaller models.

Why is this news? Japan Air Lines is presently losing lots of money and has lots of issues it needs to address before it goes ordering new aircraft.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
25 Aither : These guys are waiting from the market and not pushing it like carriers such as EK, CX, SQ, KE do. The downsizing approach is like admitting to be def
26 DeltaDC9 : Kinda hard to miss that trend, but still they do. Build it and they will come only worked in that movie as far as I know. It is a perfectly adequate
27 Donder10 : Why then is JAP dropping its 2nd daily NRT-LHR flight?From most accounts,the yields on LHR-NRT are quite poor at the moment.
28 Thorben : Let's see if the 747-8 sells more pax planes than the 764. Right now the 747-8 stands at zero, which is a little less that the 764. The 737NG is only
29 Pyrex : No. Why should anyone reduce themselves to just one manufacturer, specially when there is no cockpit commonality between the aircraft of that manufac
30 Airzim : Why don't you try re-reading what I wrote. So quick to judge. I'll write it again in case you don't know how to scroll back. JAL and ANA will not buy
31 PanAm_DC10 : Because it fits with their currently stated fleet plan, however, As I also posted, unlike his predecessor he doesn't entirely rule out that they will
32 Keesje : In 2010 Narita, HongKong & Heathrow are stuffed with shiny A380's Offering attractive comfort & prices tempting the home markets That'll be the moment
33 Post contains images Gkirk : What? That A380s are ugly and they have no need for them?
34 DeltaDC9 : Make that 18 firm for the 748, where have you been? Plus the 744 is sold out but for a handful of slots, outselling the 380 going on two years now BT
35 Post contains images Gkirk : Personally I find them way too noisy. Airbus and Boeing both make great planes. What an excuse! After all, the 737NG Cannot be a good plane on its ow
36 JAL : Perhaps they will go for the 747-8
37 Molykote : "Keesje" must be Dutch for Kool-Aid. Let me finish your story...... The majestic A380 will rise before above the land thus taking its rightful place
38 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Apples and oranges. It's been said time and time again that these two aircraft do not compete. There's a big difference between a 450 seater than a 5
39 Post contains images Keesje : Yes, the original post
40 CHRISBA777ER : Boeing outsources a lot of work to large companies in the US, and has done for a long time. Buying Airbus would be seen as endangering the interests o
41 Poitin : I think it is the "Boeing's composite Fuselage melts in the sun", lad. But otherwise a fitting saga worthy of the Great Warlord of Toulouse. Could yo
42 Post contains images Boeing Nut :
43 Molykote : This was understood but your enthusiasm for Airbus products is apparent enough that I had to poke some fun.
44 PanAm_DC10 : Molykote Would you please care to link me to the abundance of post's that lead you to draw such a conclusion about whether I prefer one manufacturer
45 Sangas : Mr. Nishimatsu seems to be acknowledging that cabin service may be the most significant future battleground in the Japanese long-haul markets by sayi
46 Post contains images PlaneHunter : The B747-8 will offer what the B764 lacked (compared to its competitor): range. And btw - being a derivative does not necessarily mean anything. So B
47 Keesje : He folks I don't what "the abundance of post's" means but PanAM_DC10 seems pretty impartial. What hype? Remarkably I only seem to read about A380 swi
48 474218 : In 5 or 10 years JAL can order A380's if they need them, assuming there still in production.
49 FlyingHippo : Got news for you... I agree!!! 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380... BECAUSE THOSE TWO PLANES SERVE TWO DIFFERENT MARKET SEGMENTS!!! A 500+
50 Sangas : IIRC, Mr. Enders of EADS recently told the New York Times in a featured interview that "you can fit a tennis court on the A380," ...to imply places l
51 DeltaDC9 : Yes, it was offered, and sure Boeing had higher hopes, this is true, but the main intent was to keep Delta and Continental happy. It did pay for itse
52 Babybus : In a previous thread it was mentioned that JAL admitted to not being able to afford thorough maintanence of its current aircraft. It's not an airline
53 Stitch : A 400-seat aircraft can compete with a 500-seat aircraft if the 400-seater can carry 400 folks more efficiently then a 500-seater can carry 500. Again
54 Molykote : I must apologize - I quoted the wrong user. I meant to explain that I understood where Keesje was coming from but wanted to start off with your threa
55 Post contains images Supa7E7 : Ahahahahaha!!
56 Rj111 : Personally, I shall belive that when i see the order books in ten years time.
57 Post contains images Glideslope : No, what he is saying is that he wants to wait and see if the 380 can deliver anything. Nothing new here. Most operators have the same approach. You
58 DeltaDC9 : That is a very good observation. Same goes for smaller jets too, as in the 787-10
59 Scoljet : WOW!! we have derailed kids!! A & B will both be around for a long time. We can continue to pick nat shit out of pepper regarding who's better but the
60 BlueSky1976 : No. The main intent was to compete with A330-200. 767-400 was never - I'm going to say that again - NEVER - meant to be designed as an exclusive prod
61 Zvezda : JL never bought B747s for their size. JL bought them primarily for their range and secondarily for their low CASM. True, PlaneHunter. Also, Thorben,
62 QANTAS077 : and when JAL & ANA see the drama it creates they'll stop and think...if it ain't Boeing we ain't buying. Japanese carriers invest to much into develo
63 Saturn5 : You laugh because you don't understand what he is saying. By "smaller" aircraft he means below the size of the A380. Was it that hard to understand t
64 Centrair : Maybe you are thinking of old Nagoya, now known as Nagoya Komaki Municipal Airport. That one can only recieve smaller planes as stated in the agreeme
65 Intothinair : I'd say around 70+ 773ER orders should get the job done. This could increase yields and get JAL back to profit in the long term. cheers, Konstantin G.
66 Boeing Nut : I'm just highlighting this quote because it has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever seen.
67 Saturn5 : I agree. Complete rubbish.
68 B707Stu : I'm not sure what all the confusion is about. Sounds like he's saying he strategically wants JAL to go with smaller aircraft, eg B777, B787, for JL's
69 Post contains images Boeingfanyyz : Interesting that a major-Boeing customer such as JAL would consider buying the 380 amid the new Boeing a/c, the 747-800. Perhaps JAL was not satisfied
70 Post contains links and images PanAm_DC10 : Thank you Molykote I appreciate your clarification. TORONTO, ONTARIO--(CCNMatthews - May 12, 2006) - Bombardier Aerospace announced today that Japan
71 Post contains links and images LTU932 : Tell that to NH, which has an A32x fleet. If you are however talking about Airbus widebodies, then given the current situation you might be correct.
72 DfwRevolution : They also placed a substantial B737NG order to replace the A320, and launched the B737-700ER model...
73 Carpethead : It's not the airports themselves that cannot handle the A380. The 773/ER have wider turning radius and higher pavement loading than the A388, so this
74 AndesSMF : Japan doesnt have an expanding population to justify the presence of an A380 in their sky. Look at the increase in travel in developed countries, for
75 Zvezda : Yes, and this will continue. There are currently (as of a few weeks ago) 27 JumboJets in SQ's passenger fleet -- the last of which will be retired in
76 United Airline : The B 777-300/300ER are replacing the B 747 classics in JAL's fleet, but not the B 747-400s. When it comes to B 747-400 replacement I think they will
77 United Airline : Exactly. I suppose they will order the B 747-8 to replace their B 747-400s. Maybe a few A 380s too. Might WELL be a strategy to send out this 'we don
78 AirFrnt : Denial... It's not just a river in Egypt anymore. I am curious how you explain away the nearly identical remarks from Saudi this week as well? JAL an
79 LTU932 : True, I'm aware of their 737NG orders and their launch order for the -700ER, but fact is that a Japanese carrier does, or in the future did, operate
80 Post contains links and images Manni : Both airlines had said before that they're not interested in the A380. A while back ANA rephrased that, to 'not in the near to medium term' and JAL i
81 Carpethead : Little off tangent but as some have mentioned, had the 764 been launched much earlier than the late 1990s, it might have seen orders from JL or NH. Of
82 Revelation : I'm glad they are getting along well without American microprocessors and American software. Not really, but you did make me realize one potential ne
83 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Early this year JAL actually increased their commitment to the 747BCF program and now have 8 firm with 4 more options. This appears to have coincided
84 Post contains links and images Keesje : If the Japanese will not buy the A380 for business reasons that a wise decision. I think the fleetcomposition / network / markets / competitors of JAL
85 LTU932 : Downsizing might be a bit difficult, considering that JL's and NH's main international hub at NRT is heavily slot restricted. Even with the 77Ws comi
86 AirFrnt : That's some spin... The A380 is going to live or die over the pacific, the same way as the Atlantic was the 747's proving ground, and doom once the 7
87 Zvezda : JL and NH have an ample sufficiency of slots at NRT. There is negligible pressure on them to operate oversize airliners. Fragmentation of the transpa
88 Texfly101 : Their CEO, basically supports this. As quoted in an interview the South China Morning Post 5/13/2006, "Asia's largest airline wanted medium-sized pla
89 Keesje : This sounds like extremely unlikely. They (can) have priority to grwo with Asia & put their money there in the near future. I however fail to see why
90 DeltaDC9 : Because they requested the model, so of couse they did. Once developed, of couse they tried to market it. I think youare putting the cart before the
91 Zvezda : Very sensible. If one is to have an "iron rule" of airliner acquisition, that's a good one to have.
92 Post contains images WarmNuts : I must first preface this by saying that I am extremely grateful for the level of insight and knowledge the lot of you bring to these discussions. Zve
93 Post contains images Zvezda : Thank you for the kind words. I hope not to disappoint you in the future. Welcome to A.net! Zvezda
94 Keesje : I agree, however a line up of 6 A380-800 & -900s (e.g. LH, SQ, VS, AF, EK and QF) offering extra comfort & lower prices might attract the attention f
95 Stitch : One would imagine that there are not any seats that can only be carried by an A380. And if comfort is defined as "personal space", if the A380 offers
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