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What Is Going On With Mexicana's Domestic Service?  
User currently offlineOrbis From Mexico, joined Dec 2003, 244 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Althoungh I am very reluctant when posting threads that could eventually evolve into AM vs MX issues, I feel the need to start this one in order to find out if some a.netters know why MX service levels in Business class are dropping while AM's appear to be improving... at least in the domestic flights.

And since a picture's worth a thousand words ........

Mexicana Breakfast in Business Class MEX-PVR (1.05 hr):

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 58kb


Aeromexico same route/ time, Clase Premier

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 68kb


two more examples:

Mexicana "dinner" Business Class GDL-TIJ

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 57kb


Aeromexico lunch Clase Premier GDL-TIJ

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 55kb



comments will be greatly appreciated

Regards

FC


we should live our lives as if we were really alive!!! H.M.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Maybe its just hard to tell from the pictures, but they don't look al that much different to me. I think they both are catered by the same company (LSG Skychefs?) as well.

I've only flown coach in either one, but their food has always been good. From what i see in the picture it's roughly the same as in coach, but with actual silverware and stoneware.

Peace  wave 


User currently offlineCessnaLady From Mexico, joined May 2004, 310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Well, I do find a difference between a cold (otherwise it wouldn't be wrapped in cellophane) croissant and cereal in a plastic lunch box, versus fresh cut fruit and warm pastries on stoneware and silverware. Same goes for a cold sandwich versus a chicken salad. Most specially if you're paying J fare!!

Thumbs down on this one, MX!! You're in time to straight things up!!

(Before the bashing starts, be it known that my family has provided pilots and crew to MX for three generations; talking about MX at home is almost like referring to distant family - and yes, those relatives currently flying MX airplanes and/or servicing pax reckon things have been going downhill customer service-wise since the purchase by Posadas. Long gone are the days when French wines and champagne, silverware and porcelain were complimentary throughout the one-class Y cabin, but this is too much!!).

Marie


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

It's a world of difference. You would usually expect much more in Business Class, and what MX is serving in those pictures is compared to AM more like food you'd get served on some tourist airline.

I personally can't pass any judgement, because I have never flown on MX or AM, much less in J Class, but that's how I see it. After all, there is a reason why you pay more for Business and First Class.


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

I flew MX last week, in Y, on the MEX-GDL-TIJ flight, and service was adequate, for Y of course, on the GDL-TIJ flight we only got a sanwich and chips, which is a bit of a step above what I got from AM on a comparable night time MEX-TIJ flight a year ago (only peanuts), however when AM does serve meals they are substantially better in quality than what MX is offering.

In J class, while the offerings seem marginally better on the AM flights, it's the presentation of the meals in MX that is truly offensive. Offer the same stuff on some china and it would make a world of difference. MX FA's must be quite embarassed serving that stuff to J class passengers :P


User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4796 times:

For as much as I dislike saying this, I must agree the general 'image' of MX is starting to show a lowering overall quality, especially compared to AM's bettering J product.

A week ago I flew MEX-BOG (04:15 flight) on MX and BOG-MEX (04:30) on AV, both on J. The on-board services used to be noticeably different on each carrier's metal... They are not anymore. (I normally make this trip three to four times a year).

By contrast, I just flew MEX-MIA-MEX on AM, in J, today. Very different. I am still remembering the delicious two-course hot dinner, excellent French and Mexican wine selection (including Veuve Clicquot champagne), and attentive ground and airborne crew.

__Ad.



A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
User currently offlineOrbis From Mexico, joined Dec 2003, 244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
Maybe its just hard to tell from the pictures, but they don't look al that much different to me. I think they both are catered by the same company (LSG Skychefs?) as well.

I really don't know but both MX and AM claim to have their J product cattered by renowned chefs.

Quoting SR117 (Reply 4):
MX FA's must be quite embarassed serving that stuff to J class passengers :P

Yes they actually are. But they try to compensate with lots of booze and smiles.

fc



we should live our lives as if we were really alive!!! H.M.
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4690 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
Maybe its just hard to tell from the pictures, but they don't look al that much different to me. I think they both are catered by the same company (LSG Skychefs?) as well.

Are you kidding, start with the box of Alpura Milk on MX. MX needs to do something to compete with AM, cause their Premium service lacks... (or so it seems)



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineJopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 304 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

Now something we should know more is that usually flights in J are filling up because of the UPGRADE perk ff programs have in MX and AM. Although I wonder how many pax really pay in MX or AM for a J full service?

MX's service in international J service is always as outstanding as in AM...always comparing on the same distance or flight times.

In my opinion most MX pax are always upgrades in DOMESTIC flights. I have no clue regarding AM, but that could explain MX's approach to food on J class on domestic routes.



Come fly Mexicana, to Mexico!
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5215 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4603 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
I think they both are catered by the same company (LSG Skychefs?) as well.

Yes! Exact same company, Skychefs!

g77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Having flown both on competing routes, I'd push AM over MX in each category of quality of cabin service, IFE, and cleanliness of aircraft. My perception of AM's better service, in my opinion, is from the CEO's motivation to transform AM to a world-class airline. My perception is evident by:

-Alliance in SkyTeam membership (as a founding member at that), and making it a priority to customers and the airline internally.
-New a/c, namely 737 and 777 for expanding routes and keeping all a/c relatively new (I'm speculating that AM has a younger fleet than MX).

Make no mistake, I'm not dinging MX. In fact, I think AM and MX do better on a route to MEX than say, DL would. I flew ORD-MEX last month on MX and had a great flight. I would just rank AM higher. AM also has stronger reach outside of Mexico, so that is a plus also.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineAm001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4573 times:
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Quoting Jopavon (Reply 8):
MX's service in international J service is always as outstanding as in AM...always comparing on the same distance or flight times.

I have to disagree... I will give you my opinion as someone with experience in the hospitality and Food and Beverage service...

I experienced both AM/MX compared service in J/C during a MEX-JFK-MEX trip a couple of months ago (yes, I actually took the criminal 2:50 a.m. flight MX001 just to have a chance to compare it!!!). My results were so contrasting that I refrained myself from posting a complete trip report... I did not want to be bashed on this subject.

AM's a la carte service, with recipes prepared by Thierry Blouet, owner of the Cafe des Artistes at PVR, was nothing short of outstanding, considering, of course, we're talking of airline food here. The 5 courses include canapes and hors d'oeuvres, salad, a roast (lamb was my choice), cheese course and selection of desserts... the wine list has been awarded one of the top positions on the "Best Cellars in the Sky" competition, worldwide... and of course, the staff was attentive and professional (you know, kind, but not what I would call warm)...

The return flight, on a MX A320, was a huge disappointment... A 3 course meal so bad that I actually finished up eating the wild rice side dish on my overdone, overcooked salmon... and my ice-cream dessert was just so frozen that I had to put it on top of my coffee to be able to eat it... I will say that, in contrast, the crew was very, very nice... and when talking to them on the sad service they are forced to provide in what used to be this airline's premium route some time ago, they muttered sympathy for the paying passengers that really expect more...

Now, I know that origin airports, equipment (B575 vs. A320), perhaps SkyTeam support, etc, are all factors that influence the service, but for the same cost for the passenger, the service differences are just to big not to be noticed... this is very sad...

I believe that the hospitality managers from Posadas are beginning to prune down costs at MX, and sadly, they are making things look more like a Fiesta Inn at MX... I read an interview with Gaston Azcarraga in which he stated that a reduction of 30% of the costs was being implemented... I guess these are the sad results...

AM001



"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5215 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 10):
-New a/c, namely 737 and 777 for expanding routes and keeping all a/c relatively new (I'm speculating that AM has a younger fleet than MX).

Nope! MX has a younger fleet.

Quoting B4real (Reply 10):
AM also has stronger reach outside of Mexico, so that is a plus also.

Nope! MX is Mexico's flag carrier. Leader in MEX-US; MEX-Canada; MEX-Carribbean/Central/South America. Of course AM is leader in MEX-Europe.

Quoting Am001 (Reply 11):
I believe that the hospitality managers from Posadas are beginning to prune down costs at MX, and sadly, they are making things look more like a Fiesta Inn at MX... I read an interview with Gaston Azcarraga in which he stated that a reduction of 30% of the costs was being implemented... I guess these are the sad results...

If true, this being one of the results... better to cut now than say sorry later!!! LOCO's and 6A will push VERY hard!!!

g77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineJopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 304 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 10):
AM also has stronger reach outside of Mexico, so that is a plus also.

I don't really know what you mean by a stronger reach...although I'll give you some facts taken out from "Mexico’s 2005 Stats Report"
- MX's load factor is 2 points higher than AM.
- MX carries twice as many passengers in the international market (not only the US): 4 millions vs. 2 million.
- When you analyze the Mexico-US market, MX is also doubling AM on pax transported
- If you look into South America numbers, MX outpases again AM (480,000 vs. 282,000).
- Obviously AM dominates over MX into Europe as MX dominates into Canada since MX doesn't fly Europe and AM doesn't go to Canada.
- If you look into charters, MX also doubles AM in the international arena

Quoting B4real (Reply 10):
-New a/c, namely 737 and 777 for expanding routes and keeping all a/c relatively new (I'm speculating that AM has a younger fleet than MX).

According to AeroTransport Databank, MX averages 8.0 years and AM 10.6 years.
Remember MX has introduced in the past 3 years 16 A319s and 10 A318s.

[Edited 2006-05-15 04:33:59]


Come fly Mexicana, to Mexico!
User currently offlineOrbis From Mexico, joined Dec 2003, 244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

After all I have read, all I can state is that the old mexican saying "candil de la calle, obscuridad de su casa") something like "shinning outside, darkness within" -would someone help me out with the proper translation- .....is what best applies for whatever is happening at MX.


we should live our lives as if we were really alive!!! H.M.
User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 12):
If true, this being one of the results... better to cut now than say sorry later!!! LOCO's and 6A will push VERY hard!!!

I think that is quite right, while I still think the presentation on those snack boxes is vile, catering is something that can be adjusted rather easily.

MX seems to be making structural changes in order to survive and thrive. As sad as it may be, if fine service meant making a profit, Canadian would have beaten Air Canada in the war, so would have Ansett survived against Qantas.

The bottom line does matter, MX seems to be getting a head start on making painful cuts in order to survive, it remains to be seen what AM will do.


User currently offlineUcunnn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Guys just simple. We knew Mexicana was going to be into a finantial time of changes..It was bought recently...The head office even announce it..remember that the first semester was going to be of slow changes...

They are ven introducing the Panasonic entertainment system remmeber..which is the only one in its kind in LA. AM has no that.

I fly lot of times MIA-MTY (via MEX with MX and AM) just recenlt yboth..believe me.. no AM was better than MX..Those old mD-80 as i said once..not even have TV on board. Got cold food on my way back. And the MEX-MTY-MEX legs were as old as another MD-80 and no tv and just peanuts...In MX wether the flight is short, most of their A319 and A320 are offering TV show AL AIRE (produced for them by televisa network) and AT LEAST a meal box with wether yogurth, cold small sandwich and cookies in fklights from 9am-1pm) and Chips, sandwich and cookies (on flights from 3-7pm) so as you see is more than AM is offering....

Yes i agree they could make it look better now on J.. but so far the service is not better if you compare the whole picture .


User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
I think they both are catered by the same company (LSG Skychefs?)

They do, LSG Skychefs/Comisariatos Gotre

Quoting Am001 (Reply 11):
believe that the hospitality managers from Posadas are beginning to prune down costs at MX, and sadly, they are making things look more like a Fiesta Inn at MX... I read an interview with Gaston Azcarraga in which he stated that a reduction of 30% of the costs was being implemented... I guess these are the sad results...

Unfortunately, and the want to cut more the costs, but at what price ???

About the food, depends on the routes the menu it´s different, MTY-MEX you can get, a Chicken dinner with soup; Tacos de Pollo Pibil (don´t know the exact translation), they taste good, or Chicken Salad, on the morning in the breakfast you can get "Chilaquiles", just sent my parents to PVR in J and they liked the food, they where amazed on how it was served in the MEX-PVR leg, but they liked.

About how it´s served, despite not being a excuse, it has to do on how many people eat it, MTY-MEX with AM serves the same fruit plate as the picture show´s, you should see how many of those stay untouched in the cattering cars getting dumped into the trash when they arrive.

This will look pathetic for the ones that pay J or even the ones that got upgraded because of their FF status, the costs get very high and now they don´t know to put them down, and unfortunately, the passengers got this.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

Quoting Orbis (Reply 6):
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
Maybe its just hard to tell from the pictures, but they don't look al that much different to me. I think they both are catered by the same company (LSG Skychefs?) as well.

I really don't know but both MX and AM claim to have their J product cattered by renowned chefs.

About AM, as far as I remember, those menus are mainly available on 757/767(777) on mid & long haul selected routes, as AM001 well described in R11.

Fyano


User currently offlineAm001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4231 times:
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Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 18):
About AM, as far as I remember, those menus are mainly available on 757/767(777) on mid & long haul selected routes, as AM001 well described in R11.

On the one hand, IIRC, the chefs of Presidente Intercontinental Mexico City design the menus for all meal service routes (Y & J) for AM, whatever the equipment might be... (includes the MD's for the MEX-ATL / LAX routes, for example)... they just design it... LSG makes the final product...

Then there is the special long haul menu for Clase Premier, which is a program called "Soles y Especias de Mexico", prepared by Thierry Bluet... these menus are only available in the 57/67, from Mexico City to JFK, MAD, CDG, and I'm pretty sure GRU (just outbound flights)... and they have been given many awards, like "Chaine des Rostiseurs" (a very renown French gourmet assoc.), etc...

In any case, the quality of the actual service (tableware, beverages, cutlery, etc... some of it also award winning designs) is practically the same in a very short GDL - MEX flight, or in a very long MEX - MAD flight... depending on what the airline is serving... there is what I would call a continuity, adjusted to the type of flight... the food is what changes...

On the other hand, I believe that a similar situation applies for MX, one of two world-renown Mexican chefs, either Patricia Quintana or Monica Patiño (cannot recall which one of them) are credited for designing the menus on Vuelo magazine... I do not know if this applies only for C or for both C & Y...

The quality of service is what it's at stake here: disposable "lunch boxes" for C??? MX can certainly do cuts in other areas (admin, HR)... and not in what the customer first complaints about: in flight service...

Unfortunately, it's an industry trend.. let's hope MX fixes the problem, and lets hope that AM won't follow...

Rgds,

AM001



"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
User currently offlineJopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 304 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

Quoting Am001 (Reply 19):
On the other hand, I believe that a similar situation applies for MX, one of two world-renown Mexican chefs, either Patricia Quintana

It's Patricia Quintana.



Come fly Mexicana, to Mexico!
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

Quoting Jopavon (Reply 20):
Quoting Am001 (Reply 19):
On the other hand, I believe that a similar situation applies for MX, one of two world-renown Mexican chefs, either Patricia Quintana

It's Patricia Quintana.

She is, and the wine chart is provided by "Tierra de Vinos"



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
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