Zbrox From Sweden, joined Jan 2006, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 18296 times:
Well, it's definitely not a photoshop job. With all those angles and shadows of people e t c, it would simply be too much unless you have unlimited time and know-how.
And anyone spending that much time on such a project (in order to possibly show what they can do) would likely chose something that would get a slightly larger audience than a few aviation geeks....
KhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 18113 times:
Quoting Zbrox (Reply 1): With all those angles and shadows of people e t c, it would simply be too much unless you have unlimited time and know-how.
I would completely agree with you on that. Very rarely do people spend THAT much time faking something that wouldn't get much... "fanfare". And most often, people only make 1, maybe 2 angles of a scene. Otherwise, that would be WAY to much work.
Only theory on a fake would be that it was a G-V that had a collapsed gear and someone wanted to make it more interesting. Even that would require a good bit of work.
PS... I use photoshop all the time and have done a little photo editting, so I have at least an idea of how much time it would take with over the counter products like photoshop.
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
3MilesToWRO From Poland, joined Mar 2006, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 18058 times:
If this is real, where's the actual photo of sunken wheel? All we have is from distance, but clearly without access restrictions. So why not make most interesting image of the very gear close-up?
What's more, I've seen a loooot of bad asphalt with deep wheel marks in it, but never anything like this - I doubt aircraft weight would produce enough pressure for such an effect. Whats even more more, The wheels sunken to half their height would have a number of times smaller pressure on ground - you don't press with only bottom tip of tyre, but with whole diameter. And this is still so big force that the tyre sinks even deeper? Doubt.
MaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 18011 times:
If you look really closely to the 6th and the last picture, you'll see some 'pixel distortion under the sunken wheel. I think it is just a collapsed gear in combination with someone who has way to much time on his hands...
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4423 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17917 times:
If you go to FlightAware.com and type in the tail number you'll see that this plane's last recorded flight was Brunswick, GA to Van Nuys, CA on May 1. So can anyone tell whether that's Van Nuys in those pictures? If it's not, I'm suspicious.
Type-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17889 times:
Back in the late 60's Texas International had a DC-9 on a RON in EL Dorado, Ark.(ELD) that sunk into the asphalt. It wasn't as severe as the Gulfstream shown in the photo, but the pilot could not drive the aircraft out, it had to be towed out of it's "hole".
So this can happen.
L1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17889 times:
Although this picture might be a fake the possibility of larger, heavier A/C sinking into the tarmac is real. Maybe not to this extreme but it happens. While working the ramp in MKC we had a time limit that the "heavies" could spend on the tarmac. If they were overnighters then they were moved to another part of the airport for fear of them sinking in.
If this picture is real its a sinkole or the gear could have fallen in a manhole. But sinking into the tarmac is only a few inches and it does more "damage" to the tarmac (and maybe the tires) but not the A/C itself.
ChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17865 times:
I am reading Jimmy Buffett's book, "A Pirate Looks At Fifty" and he talks about not being able to land his Albatross at an airfield because it would sink into the pavement. I looked back through and cannot find that part of the book, but if I do find it, I will name the airport.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8957 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17843 times:
The sunken wheel appears to be only about 20-30 feet from the edge of the pavement. That's certainly close enough for moles or groundhogs to be an issue, particularly if the soil underneath is dirt, rather than gravel. It wouldn't take much of an air pocket underneath the tarmac to severely weaken it's load-bearing capacity.
Paulinbna From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17693 times:
but the problem that I see is that the pictures indicate the asphalt "swallowed" the wheel instead of the wheel "sinking" into the asphalt.
The picture kind of reminds of the history channel show on "The Philadelphia experiment" where parts of people where inside the ship.
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17615 times:
Kuwait airport had to be closed several times in the past due to excessive high temperatures ,reaching over 50 ° celsius (in the shade ).
I recall one of these incidents in 2000.
Problem was the runway and tarmac would not withstand the temperatures and the risk of planes sinking into asphalt was considered too great.
Dogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17542 times:
EDITED:- Heya, just realised that they are definetly real. You ahve the 2 guys inspecting the wing and also the Wast Disposal or Water Pipe is attatched to the aircraft in the last picture which obviously shows that the pipe is touching the ground as you would expect.
Zbrox From Sweden, joined Jan 2006, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17498 times:
That distortion is more likely just compression showing. JPG has it's limitations
If you're SOOO good at this work so that you can create a digital "trolley" to put under the stairs ( Not to mention the people crawling on the wingtip on the ground - and their shadows) then why would you miss out on a simple thing?
IMHO It would be easer just to dig the goddam hole and put the wheel in it.
BTW - this is my first ever posting from a plane in flight!
SK997 CPH -PVG. Just coming in over the coast of th baltic states.
Connexion by Boeing on an A340.
Gr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3223 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17477 times:
The photos definitely do look genuine, including reflections on the fuselage....question is, if indeed the wheels were sinking into the asphalt, it would have been gradual....why wasn't the plane moved before it reached this pitiful condition?
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2627 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17421 times:
Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 16): it was probably parked over a storm drain and for some reason the earth gave way and the aircraft sank with the drain.
This can happen. I have personally witnessed it.
I have personally seen this happen in Wichita, KS with a Citation aircraft a couple of years ago. The plane was parked near a storm drain. The plane was parked on concrete. The main gear broke through the concrete, due to the washed out earth and the void below the concrete. The wingtip rested on the surface, just like shown in the photos on the G-V.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
CMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17266 times:
Anyone ever heard of PCN, it's an surface (concrete, ashpalt etc) strength measurment, if can be found on most Jepp plates. The photos are real, in fact this happened to a Netjets G many years ago, after that incident. The PCN is verified on all runways and parking area's.
The ICAO PCN pavement strength reporting system involves publishing a five (5) part strength code in the form of 51/F/D/W/T for flexible pavements or 62/R/B/W/T for rigid concrete pavements. Briefly, the first number is the reported PCN value on a scale of 1 to about 130, with 1 representing a weak pavement and 130 a very strong pavement. The second part of the code is either an "F" for flexible pavement systems or "R" for rigid pavement systems. The third part is a letter code A, B, C, or D indicating the subgrade/bearing strength, with A representing a high supporting strength and D a very low strength. The fourth part indicates the tire pressure limitation in MPa if applicable (0.5 MPa in the example above) - "W" indicates that no tire pressure restriction is in effect. The fifth and final part of the PCN code indicates the evaluation method used to determine the pavement strength - "T" if derived from an engineering study or "U" if based on satisfactory aircraft usage.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17140 times:
The pictures look real enough to me, and as someone else mentioned, water erosion or other undermining of the soil underneath the pavement can cause a sudden loss of weight-bearing carrying ability without it having to be really hot outside.
As far as trying to figure out what airport it occurred, I suppose somebody that's so inclined could take Flightaware's list of airports that N222LX has transited and crosscheck that against the locations of Exxon Aviat FBOs, since there's clearly a piece of Aviat ramp equipment in some of the photos. Of course, that's alot of airports to call.
I think I'll wait for their update issue next week....
Qantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17028 times:
Hey, im pretty sure its fake, i mean if it would of been a crack etc. then you would see a cracked up surface or what ever. Because to me it looks like they put the plane in the hole and then put the tarmac. There is simply no indications of a crack or what so ever.
And yes with photoshop you can do anything, trust me
AndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16941 times:
Quoting 3MilesToWRO (Reply 3): If this is real, where's the actual photo of sunken wheel? All we have is from distance, but clearly without access restrictions. So why not make most interesting image of the very gear close-up?
The person taking the photos may not have been allowed to get under the airplane and take a photo of the gear stuck in the asphalt. A GV can have a MTOW of 89,000 lbs, would YOU get under it if it was sinking into asphalt? I know I wouldn't...
Quoting MaartenV (Reply 5): If you look really closely to the 6th and the last picture, you'll see some 'pixel distortion under the sunken wheel. I think it is just a collapsed gear in combination with someone who has way to much time on his hands...
'Pixel distortion' is due the the images being in JPG format. The file sizes are 24k on that page. Go into the a.net photo database, copy a really large nice clear photo, and reduce it to 400 pixels wide, and tell PhotoShop to compress it to 24kb. There will be plenty of 'Pixel distortion' in that image as well. That doesn't make the image fake.
Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 13): Wast Disposal or Water Pipe is attatched to the aircraft in the last picture which obviously shows that the pipe is touching the ground as you would expect.
The hose you see is a fuel hose. They are defueling the airplane. It's the first logical step to keep the area safe and to get the aircraft out of the hole. Suck out all the fuel, and cut the weight of the aircraft almost in half. Then you can raise it using jacks, airbags or a crane, and either fill the hole or roll the aircraft forward a few feet and get it out of there.
This isn't that difficult to believe. In Anniston, AL I saw a DC9 nose gear begin to sink into asphalt on a VERY hot Alabama day. It was there on a charter, we had parked it on the GA ramp. After seeing it starting to go down - we quickly moved it onto the main ramp (made of concrete) in front of the FBO. My guess is there are still two small dents in the ramp on that spot.
Also note that the GV has a very small footprint for such a heavy weight.