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NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again  
User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 208 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6737 times:

NWA are going to operate EWR-AMS in place of KLM beginning Nov 1st, temporarily until March 31, 2007. Will be operated by A330-300 as flt numbers NWA64 EWR-AMS and NWA 63 AMS-EWR. Will also see MEM-AMS as A330-200 as of Nov 1st and AMS-BOM as of Oct 1st - again A330-200. MSP-AMS should become all A330 at end of December too, so that would mark end of DC10 flying to AMS. MSP-LGW - not sure when this will become A330, but must be right around the same timeframe.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6637 times:

Any ideas why Northwest is taking over the EWR-AMS-EWR route again? The took over once before earlier this year but that's because the airline was short an aircraft.


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 208 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

NWA and KLM share revenues on their transatlantic operations, so it doesn't matter who flies the routes revenue-wise. I am sure it is due to KLM needing the aircraft in another market. KLM currently fly the A330 EWR-AMS, and according to the computer reservations system, this route was supposed to revert to the 767 for the winter. NWA and KLM have swapped markets previously and, I am sure, will continue to in the future, when one or the other sees a need to utilize aircraft in new markets. Examples have been MSP-AMS, DTW-AMS, MEM-AMS, EWR-AMS, JFK-AMS.

User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Goodbye to the D10, since it looks like almost all of NW's operation of them is into AMS. While the A330 is such a nice plane, it's always sad to see a classic slowly fade away. Let's hope they don't sub the D10 out on flight 46 this July, since that looks to be one of the last chances I'll have to fly on one.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Interesting, its probably nothing more than an aircraft allocation issue so NW will operate the EWR-AMS route for the winter season.....KL is in the process of phasing out its 763 fleet and has increased service on some routes while awaiting 772s and A332s to be delivered. It could also have to do with maintainance schedules......KL's MD11s and 744s are due for some interior upgrades as well as heavy maintainance. As pointed out, its not the first time that KL and NW have swapped transatlantic routes over the years. Interesting sidenote: when NW flew the "traditional" JFK-AMS flight (KL600/601) for a period of time, some Dutch pax and commentators were a bit upset, how could KL allow NW fly one of its most historic and flagship routes? I am certain that the EWR service will not be subject to such commentary.

I do find aircraft allocation interesting:

EWR-AMS on the A333 (quite a step up from the 763 that flew the route for years......especially during the low winter season).

MEM-AMS on the A332 - makes sense, although I thought that A332s were not going to do transatlantic runs, expect for SEA-AMS.

AMS-BOM on the A332 - thats surprising, a rather "small" airplane for a route such as this. KL and NW work together on the India routes, and probably could fill up a 744 on a daily basis (a good perecentage of India-Mumbai/Dehli flights are flown with the 744 to keep up with demand.)


User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3339 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

wow interesting! What is KL going to do with the A332 that its sending to EWR, what route is that A332 going to replace the 767.

Leo



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 6103 times:

I just hope they don't do this to the IAD-AMS route. I'm so glad
that KL is back on this service.
I used to love flying the KL 747-combis in the mid-90's, mainly because
the front section of the cabin was Y seating not F/J like most carriers.
Then NW came in with their DC-10s in '95 and took away my beloved
Bluebirds.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 6094 times:

Any news on when LGW-MSP will see an upgrade from DC10 to A330?

User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

I am flying KLM this June EWR-AMS and I am really starting to get worried I will not fly the A332. KLM swaps the equipment very frequently, and I really want to fly their A332, which should also be my first Airbus transatlantic experience!!
Its sad to see NWA taking over routes. Thanks God I am not flying this route after November.
Just a little question: Are NWA´s PTV´s in their A332 AVOD or normal?
Thanks,
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6032 times:
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Quoting Runway23 (Reply 7):
Any news on when LGW-MSP will see an upgrade from DC10 to A330?



Quoting Redtailmsp (Thread starter):
MSP-LGW - not sure when this will become A330, but must be right around the same timeframe.



Made from jets!
User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 3):
Goodbye to the D10, since it looks like almost all of NW's operation of them is into AMS.

Once all of these A330s are in place, does anyone know what routes WILL still be on a DC10?



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6003 times:

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 10):

Once all of these A330s are in place, does anyone know what routes WILL still be on a DC10?

After all European services out of Detroit, and then MSP are operated with the A330 - think Hawaii........

Certain services to Hawaii will continue to see DC10 service - think MSP-HNL, DTW-HNL (seasonal?) and SEA-HNL (sometimes with the DC10, other times operated with the 753).

Which types operate the longer haul services to Hawaii depends on aircraft allocation issues, thoughout the entire NW route system.


User currently offlineHawaijahaz From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 8):
Are NWA´s PTV´s in their A332 AVOD or normal?

I believe that the PTVs are AVOD. I flew a A332 from NRT to SIN last year and was very impressed with the aircraft.

Priyanshu


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5965 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Quoting Runway23 (Reply 7):
Any news on when LGW-MSP will see an upgrade from DC10 to A330?



Quoting Redtailmsp (Thread starter):
MSP-LGW - not sure when this will become A330, but must be right around the same timeframe.

I did see that before. However all the GDS' have D10 going well into next year. I thought somebody working at NW might have more information.


User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5924 times:

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 8):
Just a little question: Are NWA´s PTV´s in their A332 AVOD or normal?

They're AVOD.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5895 times:

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why NW would use a 332 on AMS-BOM. This is one of the highest yielding routes in the system. I would think they would want something with more capacity unless there is a serious fleet shortage projected for that time.

[Edited 2006-05-14 04:00:40]

User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2544 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5887 times:
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How is NW doing on MEM-AMS? I was in schipol in December and I noticed an A333 arrive from MEM. I noticed that the flight was packed too.... I feel like there must be very very little O&D traffic between the two; it must mostly be transit pax?

-AA777


User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5863 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11):
DTW-HNL (seasonal?)

We didn't see that one this year... I'm not sure if it'll come back. I believe it was last in Spring 2004 they were all the time seasonal. You would think there was market, but I guess not enough.


User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 208 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

As Dutchjet says in reply number 4, the allocation of 332s is interesting. MEM makes sense, but BOM could certainly do with the added passenger and cargo capabilities of the -300, especially as the European winter months are the busiest for travel to India. By using 332s to MEM/BOM, NWA will need a 4 aircraft rotation of 332s to Europe this winter. That should put further expansion of 332s in Asia on the back burner for now.

As regards the DC10, it looks like it may be down to a MSP-HNL-KIX-HNL-MSP rotation by early 2007. Current HNL-NRT service of 1 744 and one DC10 changes to 2 744s in the near future. There is an issue with the INS system of the DC10 which will hasten its demise into Europe - the INS system cannot be upgraded to match forthcoming upgrades in navigational requirements in Eurocontrol. It is the same INS system in the DC10 and 747-200s, so I presume there will be no more NWA 747 freighters charters into Europe either.


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

I think that NW's transatlantic operations are on par with that of european carriers flying over the atlantic, especially when operated with their new A330's. So even though it's exciting to fly on a new KLM A330, I don't think the service will differ so much between the two. In fact, I was pretty shocked to see how the service aboard KLM europe has gone down. They used to be the best in my opinion. What airline served belgium waffles in economy other than KLM?


LH 442
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

Having been on both NW and KL A330s across the Atlantic, I would definitely prefer KL, but the NW bus was pretty nice too.

What about KL`s AMS-EWR flight with the 772? Is that still "on" ?

raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Quoting Raggi (Reply 20):
What about KL`s AMS-EWR flight with the 772? Is that still "on" ?


I thought I had heard somewhere that KL660 was an extra capacity flight for the summer but it appears on the KLM timetable to be flying into November and on.

[Edited 2006-05-14 15:26:11]


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

A lot of capacity from NYC to AMS.....

CO EWR-AMS ( 2 daily, 1 767-400, 1 757)* seasonal, the 757 is dropped in the winter.

KL JFK-AMS (one 744, one 772)

KL/NW EWR-AMS (A332, A333)

DL JFK-AMS (1 763)

SQ JFK-AMS (1 744)


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Quoting AA777 (Reply 16):
How is NW doing on MEM-AMS? I was in schipol in December and I noticed an A333 arrive from MEM. I noticed that the flight was packed too.... I feel like there must be very very little O&D traffic between the two; it must mostly be transit pax?

-AA777

MEM-AMS has built up into a successful route - much to everyone's surprise; KL/NW has stuck with the route for years, flying it with M11s, 763s, DC10s and now A330s.......KL/NW has built the flight into a solid connection between the southeast and Europe, and the flight is surprising popular with Dutch/European travellers going to the region and even a good number of pax that are Florida bound. Cargo lift on the route is also very strong.

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 22):
A lot of capacity from NYC to AMS.....

CO EWR-AMS ( 2 daily, 1 767-400, 1 757)* seasonal, the 757 is dropped in the winter.

KL JFK-AMS (one 744, one 772)

KL/NW EWR-AMS (A332, A333)

DL JFK-AMS (1 763)

SQ JFK-AMS (1 744)

As you probably know, this is all about hubs.........CO has a major hub at EWR, KL is based at AMS and is a favorite connection airport for pax - especially Americans, due to good shopping, nice/user friendly facilities, and the fact that everyone speaks English, JFK is DL's European gateway....and that DL,CO,NW and KL all just happen to be SkyTeam members. O&D traffic between NYC and AMS is good......but yeilds are mediocre and cannot compare with yeilds on flights between NYC and other EUropean capitals such as London, Paris or Frankfurt.

SQ served EWR-AMS (not JFK-AMS) for several years with 744 service 3 or 4 times per week - the flight continued to SIN; that service was dropped when the nonstop EWR-SIN flight was launched.......SIN did not make money on the EWR-AMS segment, yeilds were terrible, lots of bargain fares - with a flight that operated only a 3 or 4 times per week, SQ had trouble attracting biz pax (although the timing of the flight was terrific, allowing a day trip out of AMS to JFK). SQ serves the JFK-FRA-SIN route on a daily basis.


User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 22):
A lot of capacity from NYC to AMS.....

CO EWR-AMS ( 2 daily, 1 767-400, 1 757)* seasonal, the 757 is dropped in the winter.

KL JFK-AMS (one 744, one 772)

KL/NW EWR-AMS (A332, A333)

DL JFK-AMS (1 763)

SQ JFK-AMS (1 744)

For the summer both JFK flights will be on the 777-200. Singapore Airlines does not fly to AMS from JFK, they fly to FRA.



No Vueling No Party
25 Lfutia : if NW is taking over the EWR, route then would someone like to explain this? I found this on Amadeus for the first week of March. Northwest Airlines N
26 NWA757boy : I flew that route this past February and March and both full. From what I heard many were connecting to southern destinations or overflow from the DT
27 AlitaliaMD11 : I was checking Amadeus and noticed the same thing, it appears that Northwest and KLM are both flying daily flights to EWR leaving within 5 minutes of
28 Dutchjet : Likely, the new flight has been loaded but the original (now cancelled) flight still remains in the system........this will be cleaned up and the cod
29 Nwab787techops : Looks like NWA EWR-AMS comes back 26NOV-till 24mar07
30 Gunsontheroof : SEA-AMS is only an A332 during the winter. During the summer it upgrades to an A333, although according to FlightAware, the flight has been operated
31 HB-IWC : KL659/660 is a summer-only addition. The flight is operating twice weekly only on days 4 and 7, as opposed to the earlier announced 3 weekly frequenc
32 HB-IWC : As to the transfer of the KL657/658 AMS-EWR-AMS flight to Northwest for the winter, there are 2 main reasons: * the upgrade of the MD11 and B744/B74E
33 Hjulicher : It just seems to me that KLM asked NW to take over the route, but isn't that a lot to ask from NW especially in their current state of operation? Befo
34 Jano : KL and NW have Joint Venture for TATL ops. So they so share both revenues and expenses.
35 Redtailmsp : HB-IWC, thanks for the explanation why KLM are transfering AMS-EWR to NWA for the winter - makes a lot of sense. As several of us have mentioned in th
36 Lamedianaranja : and don't forget MIA-AMS, now flown by neither airline, just by MP. Maybe they'll share profits and costs this time and if it's a profitable route it
37 HB-IWC : I think the dilution of yields on India routes cannot be underestimated. Over the past couple of years the number of available flights between Europe
38 BlrBird : HB-IWC, I am still confused as to how AF and BA are seem to be making good run on EU-BLR route, BA upped it freq to 6x weekly (from 5x) and AF is goi
39 Nwab787techops : Maybe next year when they get the B757-200 (5600) winglets on and start flying to EU citys, that will free up A330s for AMS-BLR if the B757-200 with
40 HB-IWC : The cancellation of the NW AMS-BLR service seems to be a case of the airline's trying to optimize the use of its available resources. The opening of t
41 Redtailmsp : The AMS-BLR service was due to start right around the time NWA declared bankruptcy. Advanced bookings were NOT strong at all, as well as B-A and Air F
42 Post contains images KLMNW : Well i think NW can't complain about their NW42 flight (AMS-BOM) . All the times that i profile that flight it's overbooked ! Thomas
43 HB-IWC : SUre enough they are always full. The real question however is what kinds of fares are those passengers paying. While I am not saying that NW is not
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