BMIFlyer From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2004, 8170 posts, RR: 71 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15514 times:
Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter): Is today's landing and departure by Airbus Industrie's A318, the biggest aircraft to land and depart LCY?
FlySSC From Lebanon, joined Aug 2003, 6310 posts, RR: 64 Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14922 times:
Quoting Humberside (Reply 4): Possibly one of the most likely airlines to use the aircraft at LCY is existing customer Air France?
The A318 is only operated by Air France, Frontier and Mexicana ... I doubt the last two could fly it into LCY.
All AF flights to LCY are operated by AF's subsidiary airline CITYJET with Bae146.
AF's A318 fleet is based at CDG.
6 x DAILY flights are operated from/to Orly Airport. 1 single DAILY flight only is operated from CDG, still by CityJet. This frequency could be operated by AF's own A318 but I don't see why ... the Bae146 are perfectly adapted to this line and the A318 wouldn't even boost the capacity offered as the Bae146 are equipped with 94 seats (Bae146-200) or 100 seats (Bae146-300) and the A318 with 123 seats.
Grimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 228 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14626 times:
The A318 cannot fly on a regular service to LCY because of noise regulations, thats why AF/Cityjet use the Bae 146 from CDG & DUB. I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engineed aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.
Runway23 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 1742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14491 times:
Quoting Grimey (Reply 9): The A318 cannot fly on a regular service to LCY because of noise regulations, thats why AF/Cityjet use the Bae 146 from CDG & DUB. I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engineed aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.
Grimey
That is pure BS.
Do you really think Airbus would go through the cost of certifying an aircraft type at LCY if afterwards it could not fly there?
The whole reason of certifying the aircraft type from what I know is more for A319 CJ customers rather than AF. That said, the fact that it is certified may bring some orders airbuses way as carriers replace their Avro's/Bae's.
Qantas744ER From United States, joined Jun 2005, 1173 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14491 times:
Quoting Grimey (Reply 9): 2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.
Not quite right
1 the Bae 146 doesnt even have T/R and only uses speed breaks and gear breaks.
2 Thrust reverse isnt even in the manuals for the breaking distance, for example on an airbus A318 on landing at LCY, Autobreaks Mid: would be used, meaning that if the pilot activates T/R the breaks will automatically break less because of the breaking power being equalized by the T/R so the plane could always land without T/R but on T/O of course the Bae 146 is in advantage for noise
Cheers Leo
If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline.
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2792 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14404 times:
As mentioned already, main reason for the certification at this point is the A318 Elite. One other attraction of the A318 is that it extends the perimeter for operations due to its longer range (which, however, cannot be utilized with full loads, I would assume).
Scheduled operations with the A318 might become a more important factor in the future when the BAe 146 grow older and older. It will then be the only 80+ seat aircraft and the only jet airliner that can operate into LCY.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4381 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14355 times:
Quoting Grimey (Reply 9): I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engineed aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.
I believe the 328JET is being certified for LCY and ERJ-135's have been used regualrly to LCY in the past (JetMagic). The EMB-170 is alo suitable for LCY flights (this was specified by Crossair when they ordered their aircraft)
I am not saying anything else than there is no interest for Air France to replace 1 single Daily CDG-LCY with a Bae146, by 1 Daily CDG-LCY with an A318.
"Runway23" is right when he says (reply#10) that this whole campain of certification is not particularly made for AF to operate its A318 into LCY ...
Quoting Mariner (Reply 8): That Air France will stick with their BAE 146 forever, even though other airlines are getting rid of theirs?
Air France is not operating those Bae146. They are operated by a subsidiary. Yes they will be replaced. Yes there are many plans for a replacement and a complete renewal of AF's subsidiaries regional fleet (Regional Airlines, Brit'Air ...) but for this renewal, it seems that AF is looking more toward Brazil ... rather than Toulouse...
Egmcman From United Kingdom (England), joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13143 times:
Quoting Grimey (Reply 9): The A318 cannot fly on a regular service to LCY because of noise regulations, thats why AF/Cityjet use the Bae 146 from CDG & DUB. I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engined aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust
Some of the programmes shown on Discovery Wings are a few years old and have been shown several times before all the facts are generally correct at the time of filming.
The only problem I see for the A318 is its footprint on the ground during peak times.
Door5Right From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 706 posts, RR: 25 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12987 times:
Gentlemen, you may be interested in the following taken from the CAA Board minutes of February 2006 (which are in the public domain) with regard to the certification of the A318 for 5.5 degree approaches at LCY
"Despite the substantial size increase over the BAe 146, this later generation aircraft should be safer overall."
AsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12884 times:
I'd rather fly into LCY than LGW or LHR, especially now the DLR expansion is up and running. NW / KL routing of MSP-AMS-LCY is sometimes the same price as MSP-LGW. I hope allowing larger aircraft will open the door to making LCY an affordable alternative to the two big airports in London.
AvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 860 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12884 times:
This steep approach certification can be used at other airports other than LCY correct? What other airports have/require steep approach procedures? LUG comes to mind unless I am behind the times. Would this steep approach certification done at LCY also qualify it for use at LUG as well? Assuming the runway is long enough there, I don't really know, but you get the drift of what I am asking I hope.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
Boeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12609 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7): I doubt the last two could fly it into LCY.
With three (correct?) large international airports in the London area, I think AF might be better off focusing on a more feasible location (i.e. MAN, Birmingham).
Quite off topic, but does anybody know the status of Sheffield airport? I've heard its a heli-port now.
Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz
"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
ANITIX87 From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 2554 posts, RR: 16 Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12024 times:
Quoting Humberside (Reply 14): The EMB-170 is alo suitable for LCY flights (this was specified by Crossair when they ordered their aircraft)
Crossair ordered EMB-170?!?!?! WHAT?!
Was the E-170 even being planned and developed when Crossair became SWISS?
I've flown out of LCY, I loved the takeoff in the 146, it seemed even more powerful than a 757 and was louder than any other 146 takeoff I've ever experienced. Great flight, and I love that little airport.
Liedetectors From United States, joined Jul 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11933 times:
In order to certify an aircraft for landing at LCY, it must be shown that the airplane can meet the 7.5° abuse glide slope condition.
Runway23 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 1742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11919 times:
Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 21): With three (correct?) large international airports in the London area, I think AF might be better off focusing on a more feasible location (i.e. MAN, Birmingham).
AF/KL have a sizeable operation at LCY:
Cityjet:
-6x daily to Orly (excl. weekends)
-1x daily to CDG
-5x daily to Dublin
KLM Cityhopper:
-6x daily to AMS
18 flights per day makes the airport quite a sizeable operation for the group.
AF also fly to LGW (2X daily to SXB opb. regional).
And of course LHR (AF 12x daily to CDG; KL - 10x daily AMS, 2x EIN, 3x RTM).
AF/KL are strong to the UK regions with flights to ABZ (AF 3x, KL 4x), BHX (AF 6x, KL 6x), EDI (AF 2x, KL 5x), MAN (AF 5x, KL 7x), NCL (AF 3X, KL 5x) SOU (AF 3X), BRS (KL 4x), CWL (KL 4x), MME (KL 3x), HUY (KL 3x), LBA (KL 3x), NWI (KL 4x), GLA (KL 5x).
Between them AF/KLM have the UK pretty well covered. There isn't much expansion left, if any.
Was the E-170 even being planned and developed when Crossair became SWISS?
IIRC Corsair was one of the first to order the EMB-170. They came so close to getting it that Embraer had a plane all painted up in Corsair titles. I tried to search but couldn't find it.
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20): SDU comes to mind, I believe it also requires a rather steep approach angle, though SDU's runways are about 600 feet shorter than 10/28 at LCY.
Well, if an A319 can make SDU, I would imagine an A318 would.
26 LTU932: Probably. I believe Airbus designed a special package for JJ's A319s, so they can reduce any possible problem with the landings at SDU. The same for
27 RiddlePilot215: Compared to the Bae or AvroJet...The A318 is WHISPER quiet.... and a lot sexier as well. I'm not a huge Airbus fan, but kudos to the staff for making
28 Humberside: If you tried a search for a Corsair EMB-170, Im surprised you had no luck
29 BBJII: NO....sorry to disappoint you all. The Hercules C130 of the RAF...ok it's been a while since they were last there.
30 Rampkontroler: Check that! And don't forget, while the A318 may be heavier and have a greater wingspan, the Q400 is LONGER overall at 107'9" vs 103'2" for the 318.
31 Jcded: Bomber996 It wasn't Corsair but Crossair (which became Swiss International Airlines dba as Swiss), they kept the same code LX, (corsair does charters)
32 Vfw614: - the D328-300 is, to the best of my knowledge, not certified for LCY yet, unlike the D328-100. A couple of months ago Club328 was pushing for certif
33 BBJII: Now here's an interesting FACT. There was talk many years ago with Boeing for the New 717, (when it was new), for the 717 to be tried and tested. Boe
34 Leezyjet: Have a look here :- http://www.sheffieldcityairport.com/ It's mainly a general aviation airfield now, a very well equipped one too !!
35 RichM: This is interesting. I bet those people in the canoe were like "WOW, IT'S DA A380!" Technically and legally speaking, would it be possible for the A31
36 Grimey: Ok I might be a little bit behind on my facts, but it might be interesting to have a look at the following links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_
37 FRALIM: Dont know if May i certification month for LCY but it was just about one year ago that the E170 came to LCY for trials. Unfortunately so far no airlin
38 Saab2000: Yes. Crossair was going to be the launch customer (or one of them at least) when this aircraft was first proposed. With all the stuff that happened w
39 2H4: Here in the States, it won't be long before airlines start trying to pass widebodies off as "regional" jets... I'm joking, of course, but over here (
40 Saab2000: Ain't that the truth!!! I have just read something in a Swiss newspaper which referred to the pilots of the former Crossair who are still with SWISS
41 2H4: Exactly. I fail to see how one who works with NOTAMs involving severe icing in Canada one day, and volcanic ash in Mexico the next can possibly be co
42 Saab2000: A friend of mine is a 777 capt. at United. I fly CRJs on the east coast. He is the first one to admit that my job is much harder than his. He flies to
43 Smokeyrosco: Maybe But from my (and i must stress it's my own) gut feeling is that CityJet would love to get there hands on Airbus Aircraft and not only intigrate
44 AvroArrow: I wonder if flex power is still available for takeoff from LCY or if they have to use full TOGA with a more rapid than normal pullback to climb power
45 EI321: Upclose its probably louder but it might a smaller noise footprint overall.
46 Grimey: Word on the street is that Cityjet are building a new aircraft hanger in DUB, this hanger is designed for one Bae146 at a time so I don't think Cityj
47 DEVILFISH: It was covered in this news item..... http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...braer+targets+City+with+E-170.html It would seem that the proposed 500nm
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