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Largest Ever Aircraft At London City?  
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 24038 times:

Is today's landing and departure by Airbus Industrie's A318, the biggest aircraft to land and depart LCY?






Kafa, čaj, šraf?
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 24012 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
s today's landing and departure by Airbus Industrie's A318, the biggest aircraft to land and depart LCY?

Almost certainly



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User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 23962 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
Is today's landing and departure by Airbus Industrie's A318, the biggest aircraft to land and depart LCY?

Yes, at last, it arrives Big grin



Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 23761 times:

This should then greatly help increase the chances for new customers right? Or is this just a drop in the ocean?


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 23596 times:

Possibly one of the most likely airlines to use the aircraft at LCY is existing customer Air France?


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User currently offlineDoor5Right From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 707 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23442 times:

This is part of the certification programme to prove the A318's ability to handle a 5.5 degree approach. Looks good!


My soul is in the sky...
User currently offlineGEEZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23409 times:

Damn! How could I miss this!?!

I only live a mile due south of LCY  Sad


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23370 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
Possibly one of the most likely airlines to use the aircraft at LCY is existing customer Air France?

The A318 is only operated by Air France, Frontier and Mexicana ... I doubt the last two could fly it into LCY.

All AF flights to LCY are operated by AF's subsidiary airline CITYJET with Bae146.
AF's A318 fleet is based at CDG.
6 x DAILY flights are operated from/to Orly Airport. 1 single DAILY flight only is operated from CDG, still by CityJet. This frequency could be operated by AF's own A318 but I don't see why ... the Bae146 are perfectly adapted to this line and the A318 wouldn't even boost the capacity offered as the Bae146 are equipped with 94 seats (Bae146-200) or 100 seats (Bae146-300) and the A318 with 123 seats.


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User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23289 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
This frequency could be operated by AF's own A318 but I don't see why

So what are you saying? That we should just accept the world as it is, and not move on, not try for anything new?

That Air France will stick with their BAE 146 forever, even though other airlines are getting rid of theirs?

Okay.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 449 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 23074 times:

The A318 cannot fly on a regular service to LCY because of noise regulations, thats why AF/Cityjet use the Bae 146 from CDG & DUB. I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engineed aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.

Grimey


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2180 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22939 times:

Quoting Grimey (Reply 9):
The A318 cannot fly on a regular service to LCY because of noise regulations, thats why AF/Cityjet use the Bae 146 from CDG & DUB. I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engineed aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.

Grimey

That is pure BS.

Do you really think Airbus would go through the cost of certifying an aircraft type at LCY if afterwards it could not fly there?

The whole reason of certifying the aircraft type from what I know is more for A319 CJ customers rather than AF. That said, the fact that it is certified may bring some orders airbuses way as carriers replace their Avro's/Bae's.


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22939 times:

Quoting Grimey (Reply 9):
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.

Not quite right

1 the Bae 146 doesnt even have T/R and only uses speed breaks and gear breaks.

2 Thrust reverse isnt even in the manuals for the breaking distance, for example on an airbus A318 on landing at LCY, Autobreaks Mid: would be used, meaning that if the pilot activates T/R the breaks will automatically break less because of the breaking power being equalized by the T/R so the plane could always land without T/R but on T/O of course the Bae 146 is in advantage for noise Big grin

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineWingflaps From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22891 times:

Air France used to fly the Fokker 70 regularly into London City amd Luxair presently uses the Embraer 135.

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22852 times:

As mentioned already, main reason for the certification at this point is the A318 Elite. One other attraction of the A318 is that it extends the perimeter for operations due to its longer range (which, however, cannot be utilized with full loads, I would assume).

Scheduled operations with the A318 might become a more important factor in the future when the BAe 146 grow older and older. It will then be the only 80+ seat aircraft and the only jet airliner that can operate into LCY.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22803 times:

Quoting Grimey (Reply 9):
I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engineed aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust.

I believe the 328JET is being certified for LCY and ERJ-135's have been used regualrly to LCY in the past (JetMagic). The EMB-170 is alo suitable for LCY flights (this was specified by Crossair when they ordered their aircraft)



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User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22803 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
So what are you saying?

I am not saying anything else than there is no interest for Air France to replace 1 single Daily CDG-LCY with a Bae146, by 1 Daily CDG-LCY with an A318.
"Runway23" is right when he says (reply#10) that this whole campain of certification is not particularly made for AF to operate its A318 into LCY ...

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
That Air France will stick with their BAE 146 forever, even though other airlines are getting rid of theirs?

Air France is not operating those Bae146. They are operated by a subsidiary. Yes they will be replaced. Yes there are many plans for a replacement and a complete renewal of AF's subsidiaries regional fleet (Regional Airlines, Brit'Air ...) but for this renewal, it seems that AF is looking more toward Brazil ... rather than Toulouse...


User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 21591 times:

Quoting Grimey (Reply 9):
The A318 cannot fly on a regular service to LCY because of noise regulations, thats why AF/Cityjet use the Bae 146 from CDG & DUB. I watched on programme on Discovery Wings all about the Bae 146 and it is the only jet engined aircraft to operate regular service in LCY because:
1) It is quite and won't break the noise regulations LCY have in place for being an airport in the middle of a busy city.
2) The Bae 146 can land on a short enough runway without the need for reverse thrust

Some of the programmes shown on Discovery Wings are a few years old and have been shown several times before all the facts are generally correct at the time of filming.

The only problem I see for the A318 is its footprint on the ground during peak times.


User currently offlineDoor5Right From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 707 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 21435 times:

Gentlemen, you may be interested in the following taken from the CAA Board minutes of February 2006 (which are in the public domain) with regard to the certification of the A318 for 5.5 degree approaches at LCY

"Despite the substantial size increase over the BAe 146, this later generation aircraft should be safer overall."



My soul is in the sky...
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 21332 times:

I'd rather fly into LCY than LGW or LHR, especially now the DLR expansion is up and running. NW / KL routing of MSP-AMS-LCY is sometimes the same price as MSP-LGW. I hope allowing larger aircraft will open the door to making LCY an affordable alternative to the two big airports in London.

Now who wants to try a B735 or B736 at LCY?

Mark

[Edited 2006-05-14 01:26:12]

User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 21332 times:

This steep approach certification can be used at other airports other than LCY correct? What other airports have/require steep approach procedures? LUG comes to mind unless I am behind the times. Would this steep approach certification done at LCY also qualify it for use at LUG as well? Assuming the runway is long enough there, I don't really know, but you get the drift of what I am asking I hope.


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 21107 times:

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 19):
This steep approach certification can be used at other airports other than LCY correct?

SDU comes to mind, I believe it also requires a rather steep approach angle, though SDU's runways are about 600 feet shorter than 10/28 at LCY.


User currently offlineBoeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 21057 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
I doubt the last two could fly it into LCY.

With three (correct?) large international airports in the London area, I think AF might be better off focusing on a more feasible location (i.e. MAN, Birmingham).

Quite off topic, but does anybody know the status of Sheffield airport? I've heard its a heli-port now.

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 



"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
User currently onlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3299 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 20472 times:
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Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
The EMB-170 is alo suitable for LCY flights (this was specified by Crossair when they ordered their aircraft)

Crossair ordered EMB-170?!?!?! WHAT?!

Was the E-170 even being planned and developed when Crossair became SWISS?

I've flown out of LCY, I loved the takeoff in the 146, it seemed even more powerful than a 757 and was louder than any other 146 takeoff I've ever experienced. Great flight, and I love that little airport.

TIS



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User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 20381 times:

In order to certify an aircraft for landing at LCY, it must be shown that the airplane can meet the 7.5° abuse glide slope condition.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2180 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 20367 times:

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 21):
With three (correct?) large international airports in the London area, I think AF might be better off focusing on a more feasible location (i.e. MAN, Birmingham).

AF/KL have a sizeable operation at LCY:

Cityjet:
-6x daily to Orly (excl. weekends)
-1x daily to CDG
-5x daily to Dublin

KLM Cityhopper:
-6x daily to AMS

18 flights per day makes the airport quite a sizeable operation for the group.

AF also fly to LGW (2X daily to SXB opb. regional).

And of course LHR (AF 12x daily to CDG; KL - 10x daily AMS, 2x EIN, 3x RTM).

AF/KL are strong to the UK regions with flights to ABZ (AF 3x, KL 4x), BHX (AF 6x, KL 6x), EDI (AF 2x, KL 5x), MAN (AF 5x, KL 7x), NCL (AF 3X, KL 5x) SOU (AF 3X), BRS (KL 4x), CWL (KL 4x), MME (KL 3x), HUY (KL 3x), LBA (KL 3x), NWI (KL 4x), GLA (KL 5x).

Between them AF/KLM have the UK pretty well covered. There isn't much expansion left, if any.


25 Post contains links and images Bomber996 : IIRC Corsair was one of the first to order the EMB-170. They came so close to getting it that Embraer had a plane all painted up in Corsair titles. I
26 LTU932 : Probably. I believe Airbus designed a special package for JJ's A319s, so they can reduce any possible problem with the landings at SDU. The same for
27 Post contains images RiddlePilot215 : Compared to the Bae or AvroJet...The A318 is WHISPER quiet.... and a lot sexier as well. I'm not a huge Airbus fan, but kudos to the staff for making
28 Post contains images Humberside : If you tried a search for a Corsair EMB-170, Im surprised you had no luck
29 Post contains images BBJII : NO....sorry to disappoint you all. The Hercules C130 of the RAF...ok it's been a while since they were last there.
30 Post contains links and images Rampkontroler : Check that! And don't forget, while the A318 may be heavier and have a greater wingspan, the Q400 is LONGER overall at 107'9" vs 103'2" for the 318.
31 Post contains links and images Jcded : Bomber996 It wasn't Corsair but Crossair (which became Swiss International Airlines dba as Swiss), they kept the same code LX, (corsair does charters)
32 Vfw614 : - the D328-300 is, to the best of my knowledge, not certified for LCY yet, unlike the D328-100. A couple of months ago Club328 was pushing for certif
33 Post contains images BBJII : Now here's an interesting FACT. There was talk many years ago with Boeing for the New 717, (when it was new), for the 717 to be tried and tested. Boe
34 Post contains links and images Leezyjet : Have a look here :- http://www.sheffieldcityairport.com/ It's mainly a general aviation airfield now, a very well equipped one too !!
35 Post contains images RichM : This is interesting. I bet those people in the canoe were like "WOW, IT'S DA A380!" Technically and legally speaking, would it be possible for the A31
36 Post contains links Grimey : Ok I might be a little bit behind on my facts, but it might be interesting to have a look at the following links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_
37 Post contains links and images FRALIM : Dont know if May i certification month for LCY but it was just about one year ago that the E170 came to LCY for trials. Unfortunately so far no airlin
38 Saab2000 : Yes. Crossair was going to be the launch customer (or one of them at least) when this aircraft was first proposed. With all the stuff that happened w
39 Post contains images 2H4 : Here in the States, it won't be long before airlines start trying to pass widebodies off as "regional" jets... I'm joking, of course, but over here (
40 Saab2000 : Ain't that the truth!!! I have just read something in a Swiss newspaper which referred to the pilots of the former Crossair who are still with SWISS
41 Post contains images 2H4 : Exactly. I fail to see how one who works with NOTAMs involving severe icing in Canada one day, and volcanic ash in Mexico the next can possibly be co
42 Saab2000 : A friend of mine is a 777 capt. at United. I fly CRJs on the east coast. He is the first one to admit that my job is much harder than his. He flies to
43 Smokeyrosco : Maybe But from my (and i must stress it's my own) gut feeling is that CityJet would love to get there hands on Airbus Aircraft and not only intigrate
44 AvroArrow : I wonder if flex power is still available for takeoff from LCY or if they have to use full TOGA with a more rapid than normal pullback to climb power
45 EI321 : Upclose its probably louder but it might a smaller noise footprint overall.
46 Grimey : Word on the street is that Cityjet are building a new aircraft hanger in DUB, this hanger is designed for one Bae146 at a time so I don't think Cityj
47 Post contains links DEVILFISH : It was covered in this news item..... http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...braer+targets+City+with+E-170.html It would seem that the proposed 500nm
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