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Why Won't ATL Support The A380?  
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8646 times:

At ATL, there are no plans to enlarge any of the gates at Concourse E to support the A380. However, with the construction of the East International Terminal and Concourse F, A380-sized gates could be built in Concourse F. Why won't ATL support the A380? DEN is supporting it, and I do believe that DFW will support it. Any thoughts on this?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8611 times:

The quick and dirty answer is because its too much money for too little benefit. ATL probably wouldn't see A380 service even if it was to support it -- and even if they did see the service they'd be spending millions of dollars for maybe 1 A380 pax flight a day.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinePetmbro From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
The quick and dirty answer is because its too much money for too little benefit.

The O/D for ATL internationally isn't large enough to warrant an A380 flight. The 747 currently works fine for ATL's larger markets which demand greater capacity.



"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8450 times:
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Quoting Petmbro (Reply 2):
The O/D for ATL internationally isn't large enough to warrant an A380 flight. The 747 currently works fine for ATL's larger markets which demand greater capacity.

The only scheduled 747 passenger service at ATL is by Korean Air, and that's been the only one for several years now. ATL is a long way down the list of airports where A380 capability is required.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineMycrj17 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8447 times:

The plane is not a Delta aircraft, so ATL wants nothing to do with it...

[Edited 2006-05-15 03:17:51]


GO CUBS GO!!!!!
User currently offlineDeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8433 times:

The only reason DFW is A380 ready is because the built the new Terminal D. It would have been stupid to. That being said, DFW will probably not see A280 pax service anytime. Of course, I think DFW could be on the top of the list to see A380F service.

User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1459 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8433 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 3):
The only scheduled 747 passenger service at ATL is by Korean Air,

I taxied in to the gate behind one of those -- in an ERJ-145. I felt very... small. I could hear the whine of the engines from the big four-holer when it would turn corners. Veeeery cool. It is *still* the most majestic plane in the sky.

I could probably get the same sense of awe out of the A380, though I'm not sure it would appeal to my sense of aesthetics quite as well.



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User currently offlineSpoke2Spoke From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

Most likely no A380 customers have approached ATL to make it compatible. I'm sure their management has considered the future may require A380 access, and they probably have a high-level idea of what it would take. But why spend the money before it is needed?


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User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

As someone stated...DL and Air Tran have not ordered it so ATL does not need it...grin. DEN and other stations are going for it because either the main carrier or one of it's alliance partners will run it. Star and OneWorld each have several carriers ordering....though not their US members.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8344 times:

Quoting Spoke2Spoke (Reply 7):
Most likely no A380 customers have approached ATL to make it compatible. I'm sure their management has considered the future may require A380 access, and they probably have a high-level idea of what it would take. But why spend the money before it is needed?

My point exactly. They did get the taxiway and bridges over I-285 for the new 5th runway, 10-28 A380 ready just for that possibility in the future that they will be compelled to take an A380. Also runway 9L-27R will be extended to 13,300' for a fully laden A380 can depart effectively without any weight restrictions. But why spend the money hoping for something that is likely to go to 4-5 other airports first given the logistics of the Asian and Middle-Eastern carriers that are likely to use the A380 upon the launch of service years. But the most likely North American Airports that will need to be A380 ready sooner than later are LAX, SFO, JFK, YYZ & YVR, and perhaps MEM and IND for freight. I highly doubt DEN will see A380 service on a regular basis until after 2010 perhaps. DEN does have a 16,000' runway for A380 departures. Not sure if they have the gates big enough for one out in Concourse C.

[Edited 2006-05-15 04:30:52]


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8318 times:

Quoting Mycrj17 (Reply 4):
The plane is not a Delta aircraft, so ATL wants nothing to do with it...

Sad, but possibly true.

Quoting Spoke2Spoke (Reply 7):
Most likely no A380 customers have approached ATL to make it compatible.

I know I read something somewhere (I'll try to find it) that said ATL was ok to land the A380 and even let it taxi but the gates were an issue. Until we actually get some additional foreign carriers in ATL who have plans to run the A380 we'll not see one. Perhaps a UPS or FedEx one when they get them but not before then I think.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8237 times:

My own feeling is that FedEx and/or UPS are going to use the A380 very sparingly. It is only really needed on routes where they have the right only to run, say, one flight a day between the US (or a foreign hub) and a major, restricted, foreign city that generates high-value traffic (like someplace in China). Otherwise, it can be done with a 747 for a much lower capital cost and the Whale isn't needed.

User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8209 times:

Quoting Mycrj17 (Reply 4):
The plane is not a Delta aircraft, so ATL wants nothing to do with it...

this is my feeling too



John Hancock
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8170 times:

Just like ATL, here in NGO the only reason we supported the A380 was incase of an emergency, a charter flies in or what not. One gate is A380 compatible but even then it is not a double deck jetway. It is a 747 gate otherwise and barely gets used for the 747s (don't get many of those anymore anyway) but does get used for CX's 773s.

Otherwise we will see Cargo versions (FEDEX), but they don't need a gate.

I think many airports will forego remodeling terminals for the A380 until someone says they would like to fly in with one. If they can support a 744 then they should be able to support an A380 in limited fashion as they fit into the same box. The only major issue is the taxi ways but even that could be dealt with in an emergency or rare case. IMHO the only airports that should upgrade terminals for the Pax version in the US are JFK, LAX, SFO, and maybe ORD.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8116 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
But the most likely North American Airports that will need to be A380 ready sooner than later are LAX, SFO, JFK, YYZ & YVR, and perhaps MEM and IND for freight.

I know that MEM is finishing up its adjustments for the A380...I believe hangar space is all that is left since MEM is going to be sporting the FX A380 ops for the lower 48.


User currently offlineMycrj17 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8101 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 12):
this is my feeling too

Thank you  biggrin 



GO CUBS GO!!!!!
User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8067 times:

IF KE stays as SkyTeam's prominent Asian airline I could see them flying the A380 to ATL some time in the future. If DL and AF feel that it would benificial to fly an A380 between the two cities we might see one in AF livery land in ATL, but I think the 3 DL flights and 1 AF flight is just fine.


/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8067 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
However, with the construction of the East International Terminal and Concourse F,

Concourse F? Whats the skinny on this project? Which airlines will occupy it? Is this also going to be an international terminal? When is F supposed to open?



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

An airport has to think...how much are you willing to spend to get the upgrade from a 747 to an A380.... for 1-2 flights its not worth that much.... certainly not tens of millions of dollars...

I beleive i even read something where ATL said that if there is that much more demand, the airline will add a 2nd frequency, which improves flight options for passengers.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7913 times:
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Quoting Centrair (Reply 13):
I think many airports will forego remodeling terminals for the A380 until someone says they would like to fly in with one.

Actually, just having someone say they would like to fly in the A380 would not be enough for some of these airports - they would require some longer-term commitment to justify the costs. After all, an airline could simply fly the A380 in for one season and then pull it out after finding out that the loads/revenues don't justify it and the airport would have spent all the money for nought....


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 17):
Concourse F? Whats the skinny on this project? Which airlines will occupy it? Is this also going to be an international terminal? When is F supposed to open?

Currently on hold due to disagreements between the design team and the airport authority (read that as the city of Atlanta and their cronies weren't getting a big enough piece of the pie) have delayed it indefinitely.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7709 times:

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 16):
IF KE stays as SkyTeam's prominent Asian airline I could see them flying the A380 to ATL some time in the future.

Before KE would bring the A380 to ATL, they, or DL, would rather add a second flight, which would also be a plus in terms of frequency. No airline is gonna bring the A380 into ATL. AF is slowly disappearing from ATL as it seems, and LH/BA/KL, if they even were to order A380s to begin with in the latter cases, simply do not have the demand to begin with, or else they'd be bringing in 744s. And for FX and UX, MEM and SDF are too close for an A380 to be wasted on such short flights, and neither has int'l routes out of ATL to warrant it.


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7511 times:

The question is why is Las Vegas not preparing for the A380. That's the most short-sighted view of any airport manager/community.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 22):
The question is why is Las Vegas not preparing for the A380. That's the most short-sighted view of any airport manager/community.

LAS will be getting a second airport in the next few years. The airfield at McCarren is built out as much as they can do with both sets of runways doubled up. One of the runways is close to 14,000' in length which could accommodate an A380 for departure without any weight restrictions. this is sufficient given that LAS is a high desert airport at about 2,300' in elevation (DEN is 5,300' hence the need to go to 16,000 x 200' there). To my knowledge LAS doesn't have many taxiways that cross freeways etc that would need to be re-enforced to accommodate the white-whale jet. WN and HP/US operate a vast majority of the flights in and out of LAS, DL operates most of the traffic in and out of ATL and SLC although the later would face weight restrictions since the longest runways at SLC 34-16-R&L are only about 12,000' X 150.' At 4,300' in elevation SLC would need to have a 15,000 x 150' to handle an A380 on a reasonably regular basis.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7355 times:

The point about LAS is that, like Orlando, it's a huge destination with low fares and therefore, filling an A380 into and out of LAS (regardless of hub carrier) is likely going to be pretty easy sooner rather than later. To me, other than the largest local O&Ds (and the obvious markets), i.e. LAX, JFK, ORD, Las Vegas should be preparing to accommodate the A380, sooner rather than later. Airports like ATL, DEN, etc. are unlikely to see an A380 prior to a market like LAS or MCO.

25 RL757PVD : It all depends on the cost to upgrade. Why would an airport manager spend $25 million to upgrade facilities for 2-5 daily flights, when if the demand
26 SLCUT2777 : LAS is the terminals. I don't think the runway/taxiway setup at McCarren is an issue. The Asian and Middle-Eastern airlines (Singapore, Emirates etc.
27 Airbazar : This is a very short-sighted mindset. These days in any global industry, you snooze, you lose. However, the basic idea that the cost benefit analysis
28 SeeTheWorld : I suppose if you're myopic and short-sighted. An additional 100-500 "incremental" international passengers a day adds up to tens of millions of dolla
29 Areopagus : Doesn't this sentence shoot down the rest of your arguments?
30 RL757PVD : Lets remember and assume that there is a viable alternative (B777/747) already being accomodated, therefore you are already serving the market and ar
31 Post contains images Airbazar : How so? My argument was about underestimating the value of added passengers not about whether ATL should or should not be A380 ready. I have a feelin
32 Post contains images RL757PVD : Thats not the airports problem or concern Most airports report somewhere between $5 and $15, remember there is also a cost per passenger in terms of
33 SeeTheWorld : An airport manager of one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S. and one of the most popular destinations in the world better damn well care about
34 Vegasplanes : RL757PVD is correct, Interstate 215 also known as the airport connecter runs right under both 25's runways and associated taxiways. That might need t
35 Congaboy : Perhaps an easy way to explain it might be as follows: If an airport wants to invest in infrastructure, it probably also wants to maximize revenue...w
36 RL757PVD : However, a statement like that would assume they planned for these facilities and found it not to be beneficial to pursue them at this time. Just bec
37 Sllevin : Spending money on A380's at ATL would be as useful as just setting the money out in the middle of the runway and burning it. Build A380-size gates now
38 1337Delta764 : What I have been trying to ask is not to convert the gates at Concourse E to fit the A380, but build A380-sized gates at the future Concourse F, whic
39 SeeTheWorld : I suspect you're right. I just think the way he said it was a dumb, and I think an airport manager of an airport like LAS should be more careful abou
40 7E72004 : It really comes down to cost/benefit...Unless there were going to be a bunch of A380 flights to ATL or any city for that matter, then i don't think it
41 Post contains images ScottB : Yup, and those are the two longest runways at LAS. I doubt the A380 would have difficulty landing on the 1-19's, but it would absolutely need the len
42 Post contains images Airbazar : Are you crazy? Are you telling me airports don't receive local/State and Federal money for construction project? What country do you live in?
43 Post contains images COA735 : Does anyone know if MCO is planning for 380 ops? As mentioned above, it is a BIG destination. JM
44 Tom in NO : Randy Walker has been charge of LAS for almost as long as I can remember. He has led that airport through a period of rapid growth. When Randy says h
45 DeltaGator : Orlando claims they are A380 ready right now. I would guess that they can use the existing 747 gates that Virgin uses today in the Delta airside. If
46 Post contains images Jacobin777 : We are ready here at SFO...bring the Big Beast here...
47 Springbok295 : You stand corrected, SAA have operated their 747-400 to ATL to some years now, althought they are being replaced by A340's.
48 DeltaGator : SAA is pulling out of ATL in the near future. They haven't had a 744 here in quite some time as the A346 is the current bird until they are gone.
49 Post contains links Freqflyr : As delta Gator said...on the top right side of the mco-Orlando airport it states,,,Yes , we are ready,,with a tail shot of a A380..here is the link ht
50 RL757PVD : The FAA doesnt normally participate in terminal improvements, while funded usually funded through PFCs most terminal projects come from the AIRPORT b
51 ERJ170 : I'm lost on this one? How has any of these airports done anything like building outside of their current and future needs? BNA & RDU built when they
52 Sllevin : And in 2010, who will have the 380's to send to ATL? I don't see AF pulling them off other routes for it. I doubt ATL will even see a dozen daily 747
53 Congaboy : RIght, I think ATL sets up quite well for the 787...it is the type of hub that would support long, thin routes to compliment its regional feed. Today
54 Post contains images NumberTwelve : ATL needn't "support" the A380, this is what the European countries are doing with subsidies Question is, if there are airlines who want to fly to AT
55 Tom in NO : Check your history.....I'm referring to the new terminals BNA and RDU built/added on to for AA, and the new terminal PIT ostensibly built for US. All
56 ScottB : And again, if an airline wants to fly to ATL with the A380, they're extremely unlikely to abandon the market simply because the airport isn't able to
57 NumberTwelve : ScottB - that's called customer service. When the market "demands" 380 for special airports, the airports have to enhance. They will (have to). When t
58 NumberTwelve : lol, always the same "arguments" - for US standards, the 747 is a niche aircraft too. But fortunatelly there are other markets, too. Ever heared abou
59 DLPMMM : There is simply not much of any reason for most USA airports to spend money to accomodate the A-380. The A380 is designed to fly between major hubs wh
60 ScottB : When the market "demands" A380's into a given airport, the airline operators should then be very happy to fund the upgrades. Well, they'd probably be
61 Congaboy : I am not criticizing the A380, NumberTwelve. And I agree with you that the 747 is indeed a niche aircraft by today's standards...how many of those do
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