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Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose  
User currently offlineOznznut From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 153 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

Hi Folks

Well, It happened. As I mentioned a few days ago, On Sunday I was going to visit Christchurch. NZ1 from Lax, connection to NZ513. I have been fighting a growing fear of flying for several years. Now, it must be mentioned that I hold an A & P ticket, have flown well over 200,000 miles, and have worked in the heavy jet maintenance field. So this fear is not a life-long thing. It has progressively gotten worse. Sunday I just couldnt get on that plane. I was shaking, and crying like a baby. I will eat the ticket, and the motorhome that I had rented. Oh well, thats life.

My question. Has anyone experienced this growing fear--and then BEAT it!! I love NZ and want to go back again.

Thanks
Dave

[Edited 2006-05-16 03:32:43]

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport. Now, if we fly mainline, US, European and Asian airlines, we're way way ahead.

A real fear of flying needs psychiatric help -- it's an irrational fear, and I wonder if too many hours of aviation forums, and too few hours of real flight contribute to the phobia

Flying is safe, yes, it can be uncomfortable today, but it is absolutely safe. Get help, don't give up on flying


User currently offlineDALelite From Switzerland, joined Jun 2000, 1770 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7350 times:

hi oznznut, i am making no fun of you, but i am advicing you in seeing a therapist. i work in the field and believe me somehow it will work out!!
there also should be some workshops against the fear of flying offered by the
airlines against a fee.

ey, overcome your fear of flying!!!

DALelite/Markus



They loved to fly and it showed..
User currently offlineDALelite From Switzerland, joined Jun 2000, 1770 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7335 times:

Quoting DALelite (Reply 2):
against

for a nominal fee, i was going to say!!!

regards: Markus



They loved to fly and it showed..
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9596 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7315 times:

I had a fear of turbulence. I personally am afraid of falling. It was a strong fear where I would just grip the seat in fear and always would stay nervous unless we were in perfectly stable cruise.

But I beat that fear. I beat it down. I went out and earned my private pilot's license. My instructor knew that I had a bit of fear, and on my third flight he did something that got rid of my fear. He flew the Cessna 172 into an intentionally turbulent place (near a mountain ridge). And then he took his hands off the wheel and just sat there while we bumped around like crazy. The plane was doing everything crazy. But after about a minute, he told me that no matter what happens, the plane wants to fly straight and level. After a few minutes, he told me to take the flight controls. While my hands were sweating, I could barely keep my eyes open and my breathing was erratic because we were bumping around so violently that I couldn't even breathe properly, I was flying the plane.

Eventually we landed and I realized that the plane is there to fly straight and level. That is what it is designed to do and what it loves to do. I gained trust in planes, and that eliminated my fear of turbulence. Now I still hate stalling a plane (the anticipation is worse than the actual stall), but I am comfortable now. I recently flew on one of the worst flights of my life in an ERJ as far as turbulence goes, and I just sat there with my eyes closed and relaxed while others were incredibly nervous.

A fear of flying is natural. The experiences that you undergo in a plane are not normal for humans. It is tough to deal with, but I am sure you know that flying is very safe. It is safer than walking down the street, driving to work, or many other activities that you do. Planes are designed to deal with everything that could ever happen to them. I have worked on the design/testing of various parts of airplanes and know there are margins of safety.

So I hope you can one day fly to New Zealand. It is an amazing place. I have family from there, and I truly recommend that you go. It's worth it. What is the worst that could happen? You only live once, so have some fun in life.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineUKCO From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

It is not just flying, I once had an irrational fear of trains, just as strong. I beat that.

You need to see a therapist to talk about the problem. They will give you a strategy to deal with it.

Sometimes things like these are brought on from stress or other problems in life.

[Edited 2006-05-16 03:56:32]

User currently offlineABpositive From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7254 times:

Another reason why you might have progressively developed your fear of flying might be that you are not in fact afraid of flying itself, but rather there are other factors associated with flying in an airplane.
Anxiety due hearing a lot about things such as DVT and terrorism which subconciously contribute to the tension.
An ageing body is more likely to develop a dislike for unnatural environment, i.e. plane's motion, dry air, low pressure.
There are many other possible contributors and it might be worth doing some brainstorming to pinpoint them more precisely.
There are some good links on the web as well:
http://www.behavioralassociates.com/fearofflying.asp


User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7233 times:

Quoting Oznznut (Thread starter):
have flown well over 200,000 miles



Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
and too few hours of real flight contribute to the phobia

How many hours is enough then Nwafflyer?? I don't think that flying more is helping him and that seemed pretty clear. It's obviously a far deeper fear than simply a lack of exposure. Indeed, I'm sure he needs some care and help from someone, but simply forcing flying on himself will not do, and unless we have any aviation psychologists who participate on this forum, we really can't do anything except sympathize and wish him the very best in overcoming his fear.


User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7210 times:

I agree, it's an irrational fear and needs professional help.

Maybe look at it this way. You seem like a well travelled guy who likes to suck the marrow out of life. Even if there was a 1% chance of dying, (which there isn't), wouldn't you be prepared to take that risk to experience the amazing things the world has to offer?

I'd choose death over life-long geographic containment any day.

Hope you sort it out, all the best!


User currently offlineDuff44 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7184 times:

I'd consider this irrational only because you've (seemingly) flown before without incident.

You don't need to answer this but, was there some other event that might make flying a bad experience for you? (like having to fly due to a death in the family, or some other kind of major stress)

Maybe afraid of a terrorist act or something? Where/when did it start?



I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Dave,

These things appear suddenly, and you will need help it making it go away. This is easily done with a good therapist plus medication. Have you had any traumatic experiences lately involving a loved one? Sometimes they can trigger off these episodes.

I went through a bad spell, and like many on a.net, now enjoy flying again. I think you will be feeling good again soon, and make up for lost time flying!

All the best, but do seek help - it's very treatable.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7137 times:

Hi i know you dont live in New Zealand but Air NZ recommends this fear of flying school web www.fearofflying.co.nz im sure this guy and hes really nice could put you in contact with someone in your area ...Best of luck and im sure we will see you down here soon...


"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineEirjet From Ireland, joined Jul 2005, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7116 times:

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport.

Fear of Flying is very common worldwide - Entering into the unknown or being placed in an unfamiliar environment can create fear. Most people I know who are afraid of flying are people who know liitle about aviation an aircraft! There is not much people can understand expect the individuals who are experiencing the fear itself

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
A real fear of flying needs psychiatric help



Quoting DALelite (Reply 2):
hi oznznut, i am making no fun of you, but i am advicing you in seeing a therapist. i work in the field and believe me somehow it will work out!!



Quoting UKCO (Reply 5):
You need to see a therapist to talk about the problem



Quoting Comorin (Reply 10):
therapist plus medication

Therapists are waaay over rated and over payed, I dont have time for them (In no way am I claiming that therapists have not being beneficial to some people). When I experienced my first flight (BAE146) I was a nervous wreck -I would get extremely nervous and agitated when about to board an aircraft. That was 6 years ago, now I love flying, turbulence and all - But my remedy was no Therapist - It was educating myself about aircraft and aviation.
I read somewhere that the key to releave stress and anxiety is breathing - controlling the heart rate.

Oznznut, I hope all works out, but remember therapy is not the only solution to your problem.....

Eirjet



Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
User currently offlineEirjet From Ireland, joined Jul 2005, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7064 times:

Quoting UKCO (Reply 15):
Leave it to people who know what his problem is.

Like you I suppose. Grow up !!!!

QUOTE - I once had an irrational fear of trains......

And I of aircraft .......

[Edited 2006-05-16 05:38:10]


Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
User currently offlineUKCO From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7052 times:

Quoting Eirjet (Reply 16):
Like you I suppose. Grow up !!!!

Yes I know for instance that CBT will help him with breathing and rationalising the situation. I know exacly what he is experiencing because I have been through it myself.

I get annoyed with people like you who don't think before they write whatever secondhand rubbish comes out of their mouths. Therapy may be overrated and expensive for you but could pull this guy out of a rapidly downward spiralling situation.

So I suggest you should grow up a little and realise when you don't know about something, you don't comment on it.


User currently offlineEirjet From Ireland, joined Jul 2005, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

Quoting CO" class=quote target=_blank>UKCO (Reply 17):
I know exacly what he is experiencing because I have been through it myself.



Quoting CO" class=quote target=_blank>UKCO (Reply 5):
I once had an irrational fear of trains...

[quote=UKCO,reply=13]So how can you compare your experience to his...? quote]


Welcome to Airliners.net

[Edited 2006-05-16 05:43:48]


Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6974 times:

To the thread starter:

I would like to express our regret that his thread related to your fear of flying has morphed into an egotistical, name calling, pissing contest of "who knows best" and "who's the oldest and wisest" and "my opinion is the most important etc."

But that's the way of a-net I guess.

Happy flying. If all else fails, drink through it, (works for my wife)


User currently offlineUTwriter From United States of America, joined May 2006, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

Just to get the forum back on track a bit....I had a similar experience some years back...made it to the airport and then made it right back into my car (supposed to go to England on a choir cathedral tour--yeah, I'm a loser for not going...) BUT, since then have been all over the world and have cultivate a love (my husband might say obsession) for aircraft(I'm flying on my 1st 747 in 2 months!). We have an observation deck at our airport that I frequent and of course this site has been extremley helpful. I think learning more about these magnificent machines has really help ease(I won't say conquer) my fear! Hope it goes well for you!!
Also, the site is a bit cheesy, but Cpt. Stacey Chance runs a free fear of flying website (complete with therapist videos) at www.fearofflyinghelp.com) Also, he is great about responding to email questions!


User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6914 times:

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport. Now, if we fly mainline, US, European and Asian airlines, we're way way ahead.

Even though it may be considered safer the fact that your not in control if something goes wrong is the problem! I have a fear of flying but I have flown twice since October 2005.

Also, I will get in my car and drive away all day with no fear! But when you are 30,000 feet in the air is a different story! The thought of the plane exploding and noze diving scares the crab out of some people! its a horrible way to go.
I have become a litte more relaxed about flying even though some fear is still there untill the plane lands lol.


User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

I had a similar experience a few years back. I loved flying as a kid, wanted to become a pilot, didn't become a pilot after all. Never had a problem flying. Then about ten years ago I developed this fear of not just flying but riding just about any transport system: Chairlifts, busses, trains, cablecars, elevators, I couldn't drive on the freeway because I got extremely nervous and sometimes got headrushes. It took me a while to figure out what was going on. In my case it was two different problems. One was a deficiency of minerals and vitamins. That's easy, go to a doctor, do a hair sample test and they can tell you what mineral you have too much of. The doctor can also tell you what vitamins to take to deal with fear. I noticed how a deficiency of B6 can cause panic attacks. The other problem was digestion. In extreme cases it can lead to Irritable Bowl Syndrome. When you have an IBS attack while flying you go through serious anxiety moments. You can't sit still. You constantly think the plane is about to crash. The slightest turn the aircraft makes, can result in you loosing it completely. You sweat like a pig, and literarily shake. And strangely enough the next day you fly again and then everything is fine. No panic attacks no nothing. The simple solution to IBS is, eat better and do more exercise. You can also see an alternative medicine doctor who will prescribe mucus for the bowl to facilitate the digestive process. It worked for me and flying is a joy again.

User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6827 times:

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 24):
The other problem was digestion. In extreme cases it can lead to Irritable Bowl Syndrome. When you have an IBS attack while flying you go through serious anxiety moments. You can't sit still. You constantly think the plane is about to crash. The slightest turn the aircraft makes, can result in you loosing it completely. You sweat like a pig, and literarily shake. And strangely enough the next day you fly again and then everything is fine. No panic attacks no nothing. The simple solution to IBS is, eat better and do more exercise. You can also see an alternative medicine doctor who will prescribe mucus for the bowl to facilitate the digestive process. It worked for me and flying is a joy again.

No!!?? Surely you're taking the piss out of us!?

Never in my life would I have imagined Irritable Bowel Syndrome would lead to anxiety about flying.

Love internet forums, you learn something new and unusual every day!


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

Hi Oznznut

I normally don't share this on a forum like this because it's a little outside of a "normal" aviation topic. But you sound so upright about this experience and if I don't say it ... who will?

Your "unaccountable" fear of flying comes from an unpleasant experience from a past-life that may have caused your death.
In that past-life you might have experienced being locked in a tight space, drowning or some kind of accident involving machinery where someone else was in control.
The trauma from this expereince is now very present in your emotional consciousness of this life-time, as you already know, and is being triggered by the presence of a "potential" unsafe travel in a tight fuselage where you need to fully trust someone else.

I hope I don't encroach upon your space by saying this. I don't mean to. But it's like I said before: If I don't tell you ... who will?

Best regards
Chiad


User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6778 times:

Quoting Chiad (Reply 26):
Hi Oznznut

I normally don't share this on a forum like this because it's a little outside of a "normal" aviation topic. But you sound so upright about this experience and if I don't say it ... who will?

Your "unaccountable" fear of flying comes from an unpleasant experience from a past-life that may have caused your death.
In that past-life you might have experienced being locked in a tight space, drowning or some kind of accident involving machinery where someone else was in control.
The trauma from this expereince is now very present in your emotional consciousness of this life-time, as you already know, and is being triggered by the presence of a "potential" unsafe travel in a tight fuselage where you need to fully trust someone else.

I hope I don't encroach upon your space by saying this. I don't mean to. But it's like I said before: If I don't tell you ... who will?

Best regards
Chiad

Chiad, welcome to A-net.

And can I say, as far as maiden posts go, that's pretty much the best I've seen yet.

Cheers


User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 9):
You don't need to answer this but, was there some other event that might make flying a bad experience for you? (like having to fly due to a death in the family, or some other kind of major stress)

How true this is! Especially if this happens on the transition from childhood to adulthood. I have a friend who flew home when her father had a heart attack, she was 21. Flight was bumpy. She was already stressed, morphed into a huge fear of flying.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 21):
To the thread starter:

I would like to express our regret that his thread related to your fear of flying has morphed into an egotistical, name calling, pissing contest of "who knows best" and "who's the oldest and wisest" and "my opinion is the most important etc."

Ditto.

As for your problem...

1) Don't be ashamed for having fear, no matter how irrational it is. Just by telling us about it you are on your way to getting help and being empowered. First step to beating it. Frankly being man enough to admit it on an aviation forum earns my respect.

2) The problem with all phobias is that it is related to our fight-or flight system. The most primitive, reptilian part of the brain. The part we have the least control of. It fires so fast, that for the phobic, it is practically impossible to override it without special help and training. Talking statistics or logic is useless and stupid once the fight or flight signal is lit. Do people really think the phobic is so stupid that he doesn't realize how "irrational" the fear is? The fight or flight reflex is so powerful because it helped us outrun the saber toothed tiger. And just one exposure powerfully rewires the brain to avoid the saber toothed tiger. What you have to do is re-wire it back. Not easy, but if people can re-wire themselves to quit smoking or drugs, then people can rewire themselves for anything.

3) A therapist trained in phobias is the best solution. There are specific proven techniques, best learned from a pro that will help. Also you should probably try to book a short graduation flight if you can afford it. Then a longer one, etc., etc. One of the best phobia solutions is graduated exposure with a therapist or a trusted person who can remind you to breathe and relax, when the fight or flight system threatens to take over. Unfortunately, unlike heights, or elevators, unless you are rich, doing that gradual exposure is impractical. Hence, the fear of flying trained therapist, many of whom work with pilots.

4) Please let us know how you are doing! I'd love to hear how you are making progress. Frankly I wonder if there are a lot of secret fearful flyers on A-net, and also wonder if it is worth it to have a sort of fear of flying clinic message board, where fearful flyers and those who are mature enough not to make fun of them (all three of us) can share ideas and encouragement. Gotta post that on the site board.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6669 times:

I can completely sympathise. Even though I fly a lot and am fascinated by it, I go through phases of being scared - really badly. Can't explain it and who cares really. What worked for me was hypnotherapy. You can get good CDs (on amazon etc) to use for this and using it for an hour a day for three weeks can substantially reduce the phobia to a manageable level and maybe eliminate it.

I would try this before you get into expensive therapy as it really does work. If it does, it will be the best 10 dollars you ever spent!!!



cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
25 Post contains images BAtriple7 : First of all, don't worry. Lots of people have a fear of flying (FOF). Estimates range from between 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 5 people feeling 'nervousne
26 Post contains links Hantsflyer27 : Hi Oznznut, I think you have probably by now gathered you are not alone in your experiences. I too have suffered in a similar vain to yourself. When i
27 Irobertson : Not sure how similar or relevant this is, but my wife has a fear of heights while flying between inital rotation and about 5000 feet. Above that, she'
28 KLM672 : I never had a real fear of flying I was always a tad nervous. I got a job with an airline and got sent to training each week for abut 3 weeks (rountri
29 Goingboeing : Here's my cure...xanax. I used to love flying until a I took a job that required travel about 80% of the time....we were departing CLT on the old Pied
30 Post contains images Chiad : Hi KiwiinOz Well thank you so much for the welcome! I've been around here for a few months, but this was my first post. A-net has become my most visi
31 Post contains links YYZYYT : as it happens, this very topic is also being discussed in tech/ops: 777 Take-off - At What Altitude Can I 'relax'? (by Visionfusion Apr 26 2005 in Tec
32 YZFOO7F : I went through a period when I was very afraid of flying. It was when I started working for an airline and learning bits and pieces about aviation. Th
33 Post contains images FLY2HMO : Sorry to burst your bubble, but, IIRC, that doesn't necessarily apply to planes with neutral or negative stabilty... A C172 has positive stability. A
34 QXFLYINGCOUG : Hey there! I have had the same thing happen to me in the last couple years. I love flying and always have, but my last time on my way home from Englan
35 Post contains images ANITIX87 : A lack of Jet Blue gives you panis attacks!?!?! Just kidding. This makes sense, as my father is B6 deficient and refuses to get on a plane unless his
36 Rob878 : I might have an extreme suggestion. i dont have a fear of flying though so its ok for me but i know some people that tried it with the suggestion of a
37 YZFOO7F : What do you think the chances are of any airlines putting a digital altimeter, airspeed indicator and maybe an attitude indicator in the entertainment
38 Kmh1956 : I love flying, but also have a fear of flying. I also have a wonderful doctor, with whomI discussed my fear. (Not a therapist, just a regular GP) He h
39 Post contains images OHLHD : I would not call my former problem a fear of flying but I was nervours and dead serious when it came to flying somewhere and I always thought about cr
40 Toulouse : I had an incident on a plane in 2000, and developped what I thought was a fear of flying (I actually cancelled going back to my brother's wedding to a
41 Trb10 : Well I've tried it all, medication, hypnotherapy, a fear of flying course nothing worked at all. I have a brilliant book called Flying without Fear by
42 F9Animal : Oznznut, Hey bud, that is awesome that you shared your fear with us. I feel your pain, as I too have gotten a little more paranoid about flying since
43 Jhooper : ....maybe you know too much about what kinds of problems aircraft develop???
44 RoseFlyer : You are right on that. I am aware. I'm an engineer that is quite familiar with stability and the concept of positive versus negative stability, but f
45 Post contains links OHLHD : http://www.aua.com/at/eng/About_Flight/medical/fear/default.htm I did a search as I rememberd that Austrian Airlines offered a programm against fear o
46 Post contains images Infodesk : Oznznut, you are not alone. May I say that admitting you didn't get on the plane on these pages can't have been easy. I am fascinated by planes, work
47 Mogget : Statistics are irrelevant. If something goes seriously wrong on a plane, you're knackered. If a car engine fails, you roll to a stop.
48 Jhooper : I wouldn't discount statistics entirely. They do give you a general idea how likely you are to die on any given random trip, by plane or by car. Fran
49 Oznznut : Hi All Just want to say "Thank you" to all who responded with their kind words. Sometimes the hardest thing is to ask for help. I've found out that my
50 DALelite : hi dave... just yesterday i have made an interessting expirience. i was on a plane from BSL to BCN before the door was closed, i started to panic. i j
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