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More 787 Orders On The Way ...  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12322 posts, RR: 35
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10548 times:

According to Flight International, three more 787 orders are on their way - two of which we know about already - Arkia and Air Seychelles.

The third is Aeromexico and I think there was a thread about this a few days ago. According to the APSA (Mexican pilot's association), AM will get three 787s in 2010.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...o%2c+Seychelles%2c+Israel+and.html

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10439 times:

Now if we get El AL, EK, and Singapore on board, we can tak about the impendin uphill battle of the 5th revision of the A-350!  weightlifter   yummy   stirthepot 


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAApilot2b From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10418 times:

Good news for Boeing and the airlines choosing the 787.

User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1122 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 10247 times:

Some of these are coming from leasing company orders I think.

Maybe that will loosen up the purse strings at the leasing groups to order more.....



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineRJ777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 9648 times:
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Man, these are selling like hotcakes!
 hot 

Was the 777 this hot of a seller?


User currently offlineW3ndytj4n From Indonesia, joined Feb 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 9595 times:

Yeah, according to The Flight Global, Aeromexico and Air Seychelles will acquire 787 form ILFC.


Wendy Tjan
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 9577 times:

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 4):
Was the 777 this hot of a seller?

no. it had 114 orders through april 1995, which was later into the program than the 787 is now. it also cost a lot more, had two competitors already flying in the 340 and MD11, and was more of a gamble as it was a "big twin" that was going to fly on tri and quad routes, so the 744 was also still earning orders. the long range 777s weren't even available until 1997, as it started out with similar ranges to the 767 family.

the 787 doesn't have to prove the effectiveness of the long range twin concept from the start and it costs a lot less.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 9048 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 1):
Now if we get El AL, EK, and Singapore on board, we can tak about the impendin uphill battle of the 5th revision of the A-350!

Or if they launch A350 v5 at Farborough with 60 for QR, 100 for EK and 40 for SQ that would turn everything on its head...........


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8929 times:

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 4):
Was the 777 this hot of a seller?

Not even close. 15 months before first flight, the B777 had 82 orders. 12 months before first flight, the B777 had 112 orders. The B787 is 12-15 months before first flight, but with 350 firm orders. No other widebody has ever come close to the early sales success of the B787.


User currently offlineBecca735 From Ethiopia, joined Apr 2006, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8662 times:

Ethiopian is also considering order for 5 more Dream Liners to its current 10 firm orders.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...exico,+Seychelles,+Israel+and.html


User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 8253 times:

Quoting Becca735 (Reply 9):
Ethiopian is also considering order for 5 more Dream Liners to its current 10 firm orders.

http://www.africanflyer.com./
reports that the existing order will be

Quote:
split into 6x 787-8s and 4x 787-9s


User currently offlineRJ777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7140 times:
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I think the 787 may soon become the prince of the skies! (in sales)

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7086 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
Or if they launch A350 v5 at Farborough with 60 for QR, 100 for EK and 40 for SQ that would turn everything on its head...........

Not really, as it would be 400 firm for 787 vs 200 firm for A-350 in that case. But it would certainly improve the outlook.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6840 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
Or if they launch A350 v5 at Farborough with 60 for QR, 100 for EK and 40 for SQ that would turn everything on its head...........

EK and SQ are not going to order any A350 at Farborough. It is unlikely that Airbus will be able to proivde enough information to win the order at that time.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6824 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 12):
Not really, as it would be 400 firm for 787 vs 200 firm for A-350 in that case. But it would certainly improve the outloo

assuming the current 100 firm were carried over it would actually be 400 for the 787 and 300 for the A350 - but we'll have to see.

I don't really see that happening for all 3 airlines but I have a feeling in my water that at least 1 if not 2 of those 3 will announce a big 'bus order at Farnborough


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6442 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
assuming the current 100 firm were carried over it would actually be 400 for the 787 and 300 for the A350 - but we'll have to see.

And that is actually the ratio Boeing is projecting...1.5:1...or, Boeing will sell 3 B787s for every 2 A350s.



Delete this User
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 6268 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
I don't really see that happening for all 3 airlines but I have a feeling in my water that at least 1 if not 2 of those 3 will announce a big 'bus order at Farnborough

QR might, but I am not sure their fleet procurement people are up to snuff. They bit on the A350 as defined last year after all. Neither SQ or EK are suddenly going to jump on the A350 without carefully evaluating the aircraft. And if EIS is in 2012, there is no rush.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1716 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 5856 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
Or if they launch A350 v5 at Farborough with 60 for QR, 100 for EK and 40 for SQ that would turn everything on its head...........

That's a completely unrealistic expectation to put it politely.

I get the feeling here that lots of people on this forum just don't understand the consequences and scope of this latest development in the A350 program.

Airbus is cancelling the A350 program and starting over.

This is not a minor modification that they can get sorted out in a month or two, it's a major redesign of the aircraft: new fuselage, new engines, new production and supplier infrastructure. It's going to be at least six months, and more probably a year or so, before they're in a position to provide customers with a refined, detailed, performance and engineering proposal.

Some of these airlines may well be willing to wait and see exactly what Airbus brings to the table, but if you think airlines like EK and SQ are going to place huge orders worth billions of dollars based on some preliminary engineering assessment, you're going to be very disappointed. That is doubly so considering the troubled history of this program to date. These airlines are going to insist that all the i's are dotted and t's crossed before they even take a serious look let alone place an order.

If you're looking for large A350 orders, you better start thinking about Paris in 2007, not this year at Farnborough. It ain't gonna happen.

I think this is a good move by Airbus in the long-run, but lets not kid ourselves about the short-term consequences.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
don't really see that happening for all 3 airlines but I have a feeling in my water that at least 1 if not 2 of those 3 will announce a big 'bus order at Farnborough

Agreed. I do hope for the sake of future competition between these two great aircraft manufacturers that the A-350 does prove to give the 787 a run, but not TOO much of a run!!



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

One can ask the question:

Are there any firm orders for the A350 at this point in time?

With Airbus doing a major re-think and revision of the A350 program, its likely that all of the sales agreements for the prior version of the A350 are void as Airbus will be building a different aircraft with different capabilities......existing A350 customers will probably have the choice of cancelling their order altogether, re-affirming their order for the new and improved A350/370 under modified conditions (ie, delivery dates are going to slide), or applying deposits (if Airbus collected deposits, it was never clear as to how firm the A350 orders were) to other products in the Airbus family.

Airbus is starting over with a clean slate - and, as mentioned, Airbus is probably not yet in the position to offer the A350/370 for sale to the airlines - its far too early in the revamped program. It will be interesting to see which airlines wait for the new A350/370 (SQ and EK, the two big players, may just wait it out as those airlines are probably most interested in the 787-10 anyway....if they were to go 787) and it will be even more interesting to see if any current A350 customer places an order for 787 family.

Intersting times.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):

Are there any firm orders for the A350 at this point in time?

US Airways has a firm order for 20; but their chairman was carefully deliberate in his remarks during a recent conference call. In response to a question about A350 design perturbations and delays, he replied that Airbus had made promises regarding performance and deliveries; and, if those promises weren't kept, the order could be cancelled.

How rock solid is that? As the A350 evolves it seems to be growing into a larger plane than US Airways needs.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5500 times:
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Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 17):
Some of these airlines may well be willing to wait and see exactly what Airbus brings to the table, but if you think airlines like EK and SQ are going to place huge orders worth billions of dollars based on some preliminary engineering assessment, you're going to be very disappointed.

EK should be able to afford 50 787s now (for delivery through 2015) and 50 A350MkV's later (for delivery starting in 2015) to continue expansion and replacement of their earliest 772ERs.

SQ, seeming to hate to own a plane more then a decade, could also order 787's now for both expansion and replacement of their oldest 772ERs for lower-traffic rules and then take A350MkV's in the latter half of the 2010's to replace their formerly newest (and now oldest) 772ERs on higher-traffic routes.

So honestly, I could see EK and SQ order the 787 this year, but also make strong and valid statements of support for the A350MkV if it does indeed launch and in the specification being rumored.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4599 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5471 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
Are there any firm orders for the A350 at this point in time?

I read on here that Finnair had stated that they didn't mind the redesign and the orders were to stand as they were looking at a 2012 EIS anyway.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1716 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 20):
How rock solid is that?

Not very I suspect. Apparently US Airways had performance guarantees in that contract that had already made cancellation a real possibility even before the redesign. They were also looking at a 2011 EIS which seems to be out of the question for the new A350. As you point out it's also questionable if US want an aircraft this large.

I think the same is true of the 10 firm orders from Air Europa. The new A350 is too large for their needs plus they were looking at an even earlier EIS of 2010.

I suspect both these orders are toast. We'll just have to wait and see.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1716 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 22):
I read on here that Finnair had stated that they didn't mind the redesign and the orders were to stand as they were looking at a 2012 EIS anyway.

That may well be true, but they will still need to redo the contract for that order.

The existing performance and production slot stipulations in A350 contracts are meaningless assuming Airbus goes ahead with the redesign. That's not something Airbus can just write up on the back of a napkin. It's going to take them 6-12 months to figure that out.

Any new orders, of course, will depend on the disposition of the old orders because Airbus will need to recalculate all the delivery slots and supplier contracts. All that requires a fairly refined set of engineering and production details, and that takes time.

[Edited 2006-05-18 19:12:37]


WhaleJets Rule!
25 Ikramerica : any chance that the 330 will get GEnx engines like originally planned, with EIS of 2009, and the new 350/370 will be redesigned as well to be truly al
26 Pavlin : 200 orders for A350 in one show? hahahahahahahahhahahahaha the biggest single ever order in the history was for 42 777's for Emirates. Valued 9 billi
27 Trex8 : aren't the newer engines larger in diameter? they are certainly supposed to be heavier. seems if they ever launch a A332F the newer engines make sens
28 Ikramerica : but they are already making smaller fanned bleed air GEnx engines for the 748. These would also fit under the 330, and thrust should be the right amo
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