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New CLT Flights To Europe  
User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8296 times:

In today's Charlotte Observer, Scott Kirby states that US Airways is looking at adding a couple Europe flights to Charlotte in the coming years. He didn't state where in Europe...

So would anyone like to make some guesses?

CLT already has service to LGW, FRA, and MUC.

My first guess would be Paris...the second one is much harder as there are a lot of possibilites...Manchester, another German destination...I don't know. I am clueless.

Maybe someone with better knowledge could make an educated guess.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

Maybe MXP or FCO?

Excuse my ignorance, but why do LH and US both serve MUC? Is there alot of germans who live in the CLT area from MUC or what?

Regards,
MD90fan  airplane   wave 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineDamian From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

I wonder whether they would try to avoid too much overlap with European destinations already served direct from PHL?

What type of aircraft would they be looking to use from CLT for these routes?

How about AMS, CPH, MAD or MXP?


User currently onlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8154 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
Excuse my ignorance, but why do LH and US both serve MUC? Is there alot of germans who live in the CLT area from MUC or what?

US flies CLT-FRA [banking industry] (US only flies PHL-MUC)
LH flies CLT-MUC [automobile industry]

Quoting Cltguy (Thread starter):
So would anyone like to make some guesses?

I would guess CDG [general] and ZRH [banking industry and STAR hub]


User currently offlineBa757gla From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

do you really think that MAN could support a flight to charlotte ?

User currently offlinePensacolaguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
Excuse my ignorance, but why do LH and US both serve MUC? Is there alot of germans who live in the CLT area from MUC or what?

LH only flys CLT-MUC

Quoting Cltguy (Thread starter):
My first guess would be Paris

I hope it's CDG. Sucks to have to fly up to PHL via CLT to get to other european cities. CDG/FCO in particular.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7987 times:

I would guess CDG or MAN as well, but this is at least 3 years off, unless US gets 2nd hand widebodies. There are barely enough widebodies to handle the current transatlantic flts, and PHL is the main European gateway.

US doesn't serve ZRH, and if they do in the future it will likely be from PHL.
My guess is with the exception of CDG US is looking at serving big Star gateways in Europe, FCO and MXP aren't one of them. PHL-MAN is very good route for US and MAN being a BMI hub, CLT-MAN is a possibility down the road


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7932 times:

A couple of guesses........

CLT-CDG simply because its missing from the EU Big Three destinations (London, Paris, Frankfurt).

CLT-AMS is a remote possibility; although US already flies PHL-AMS, the route's performance from a financial point of view is nothing more than mediocre.

CLT-MAN but not because BMI is there, simply because CLT is in a good geogaphic position for pax travelling between Florida/Southeast US and MAN to make reasonable and fast connections....this flight would also take some pressure off of the PHL-MAN service which does quite well (I think).

CLT-MAD could be interesting.....nonstop service between the US and Spain is rather limited.

CLT-MXP or CLT-FCO would be difficult to run on a yearround basis....service to southern Europe is far more seasonal and yeilds tend to be lower on southern European routes (Italy in particular).

US will have some flexibility to add more European services in the coming years....they have the three ex-ATA 752s, it seems as if the 762ERs are going to get interior updates and remain in the US/HP fleet, and there are A332s on order (which were originally supposed to replace the 762s) for delivery in 2008-2009 I believe.......as for the A350s.....who knows?


User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
Excuse my ignorance, but why do LH and US both serve MUC? Is there alot of germans who live in the CLT area from MUC or what?

May also be part of an agreement with the Star Alliance. It can also easily connect passengers to other places in Europe....US has a lot of partners in Europe, so it makes sense.

My guess would also be CLT-AMS, CLT-Zurich, CLT-Lisbon. These routes don't have much competition.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11816 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7868 times:

I agree with some of the points stated above already. My $.02 ...

CDG makes perfect sense. USAirways flew it before, and Paris is a huge European market. A daily 767 would probably do quite well now that the trans-Atlantic market has rebounded from 9/11.

FCO I could see working on a seasonal basis. A daily 767 operating May-October could probably do quite well on the route, and CLT would provide fast, easy connections to the south and the west coast, and take pressure of the PHL flights.

MAN might work with a daily 767, although it would likely be tough to fill on a daily basis from September to April, because of pharma in North Carolina, plus MAN's large market size and demand for service to the southeast (Florida).

AMS is a stretch, as is MAD, because while both are large European air markets, I don't think either really has that much of a commercial link with CLT, at least not enough to make those routes work long-term.


User currently offlineORD2PHL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7843 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
and there are A332s on order (which were originally supposed to replace the 762s) for delivery in 2008-2009 I believe

I know this has come up before but I thought US scrapped the A332 order in BK and only has the A350 order now with Airbus.

ORD2PHL


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
My guess would also be CLT-AMS, CLT-Zurich, CLT-Lisbon. These routes don't have much competition.

And they don't have much demand either. PHL-LIS is only 5 days a week, PHL-AMS is one of the poorest performing transatlantic flts, and if US adds ZRH as a destination it will be from US' prime European gateway, PHL.


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7794 times:

Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 10):
I know this has come up before but I thought US scrapped the A332 order in BK and only has the A350 order now with Airbus.

Nope. The A332 order is still on the books and scheduled.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7721 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 12):
Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 10):
I know this has come up before but I thought US scrapped the A332 order in BK and only has the A350 order now with Airbus.

Nope. The A332 order is still on the books and scheduled.

I think US did scrap an order in round one in court... however when the Merger was annouced Airbus made a sizable equity purchase of the new company.. Parker said in the merger announcement that they had negotiated with Airbus to space out the orders for the A320's that HP was buying and also purchased some A332's to replace the remaining 767's in the US Airways Fleet. they also ordered the A350's at that time.... I believe that was probably the incetive they used to get Airbus to inverst in the "New" USAir



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33177 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7679 times:

By reading the actual article, is is pretty clear that US Airways is not set on adding Europe-Charlotte routes, and currently has no plans to do so. All they simply stated is, in nicer marketing terms, "we currently have no plans on doing so, but we won't discount it for the future". They simply made it sound a little bit more optimistic, although they clearly said they currently aren't planning on adding another Charlotte-Europe route.


a.
User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7638 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
By reading the actual article, is is pretty clear that US Airways is not set on adding Europe-Charlotte routes, and currently has no plans to do so. All they simply stated is, in nicer marketing terms, "we currently have no plans on doing so, but we won't discount it for the future". They simply made it sound a little bit more optimistic, although they clearly said they currently aren't planning on adding another Charlotte-Europe route.

This is the quote from Scott Kirby:

"Over the next few years, there are opportunities for one or two more [Europe flights] out of Charlotte. We've certainly looked at them. In today's environment, we wouldn't say "yes," but they're close enough that it's certainly a possibility."

Nothing is ever certain until it happens...but I would take Scott's comments as a positive for CLT. So if you had to quess which destinations they would add...what would be your guess MAH?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33177 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7608 times:

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 15):
This is the quote from Scott Kirby:

"Over the next few years, there are opportunities for one or two more [Europe flights] out of Charlotte. We've certainly looked at them. In today's environment, we wouldn't say "yes," but they're close enough that it's certainly a possibility."

Nothing is ever certain until it happens...but I would take Scott's comments as a positive for CLT. So if you had to quess which destinations they would add...what would be your guess MAH?

I would definitley take them as positive as well, but they are still doing nothing more than fluffing up and putting a positive spin on the real answer: "there are no current plans to do so". I'm sure US will add a new European city in due time from Charlotte, and the only logical answer to that would be to re-start Paris. There really aren't any other logical choices. Rome could work as a summer-only, but Rome's yields aren't anything to write home about.



a.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23194 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7599 times:

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 15):
"Over the next few years, there are opportunities for one or two more [Europe flights] out of Charlotte. We've certainly looked at them. In today's environment, we wouldn't say "yes," but they're close enough that it's certainly a possibility."

Nothing is ever certain until it happens...but I would take Scott's comments as a positive for CLT. So if you had to quess which destinations they would add...what would be your guess MAH?

The question is how much better the environment has to get for more Europe flights. There's no 9/11 backlash anymore.

The problem is that there isn't a lot of O&D in CLT, especially internationally. Onward traffic is already largely taken care of in MUC and FRA, so new flights, even to *A hubs, can't really be propped up by a whole lot of connecting possibilities. A lot of the domestic connections get taken care of at PHL, so CLT doesn't seem like it's in a real good position for further international expansion.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3047 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

My money is on Manchester being one of the two destinations to be launched from Charlotte, if this does go ahead.

PHL to MAN is one US Airways' most profitable and highest payload routes.

Despite other carriers flying between the US and Manchster, many of these struggle to fill the premium cabin. But US Airways does not seem to have any problems, also the average seat on the route is usually more expensive than from LGW and therefore do not have have to discount as heavily.

Correct me if Im wrong... But I am sure when US Airways launched from MAN they only ever intended for it to me operated by 762 and all the A330's when on order were earmarked for other routes. But due to the success of the route it was once of the forst routes to be upgraded...

Despite the city of Manchester only having a population of around 600,000 inhabitants, compared to cities like Madrid, Rome and Paris have populations of 2-3million people. Manchester serves a huge area with cities like Liverpool, Bradford, Sheffield and Leeds all within 1 hours drive and these cities all boast populations of over 300,000, along with many other large towns with over 100,000 inhabitants.

I think CDG is likely to be second route to CLT to be lauched as this is one of the only routes after LGW, MAN and FRA that maintains an A330 all year round.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2255 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7436 times:

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 4):
do you really think that MAN could support a flight to charlotte ?

Might be a good run to put a 757 on.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7412 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 19):
Might be a good run to put a 757 on.

Could a 752 do CLT-MAN? Sounds a bit long to me......if launched, it would be with one of US's faithful 767-200ERs....enough range and enough seats.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7801 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7391 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 19):
Might be a good run to put a 757 on.

A 757 flight from CLT might be a bit of a stretch. CLT-MAN is longer than CLE-LGW by about 100nm.



What about Ireland. Could a flight be flown ex-CLT under the current agreement? It seems like a potential market, at least in season. Possibly doable w/ a 757.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7321 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I would definitley take them as positive as well, but they are still doing nothing more than fluffing up and putting a positive spin on the real answer: "there are no current plans to do so".

Since he said definitly "No" to PIT, the CLT comment does indeed seem "positive".

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 18):
I think CDG is likely to be second route to CLT to be lauched as this is one of the only routes after LGW, MAN and FRA that maintains an A330 all year round.

Agree. If it happens, CDG summer only. Rome is a 330 year round.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Rome could work as a summer-only, but Rome's yields aren't anything to write home about.

It's highly unlikely. Rome is a "glamor" destination on a route chart and every major airline likes to have one. If you look at NYC, all the majors have only one flight a day. Delta has a 2nd, 2 days a week in summer I believe. United does not serve Rome at all. The one daily US 330 year round is all US needs. PHL does just OK (like everyone else) on this "tourist" route because of the large number of Catholic O&D in the region. CO, for example, only uses a 767 on it's NYC-ROM route.

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 11):
PHL-AMS is one of the poorest performing transatlantic flts,

Maybe so, but KLM was all set to start PHL-AMS this summer, when they changed their mind for internal reasons.

One thought. Just because an international route doesn't work from PHL, doesn't mean it wouldn't work from CLT. An example is MEX. But still, I think if CLT expands, it'll be a restart of CDG (seasonal). An advantage CLT has over PHL for some potential international destinations, is that US has no competition from foreign carriers at CLT as it does at PHL.


User currently offlineStarCityFlyr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7292 times:

Could it be possible that CLT has less of a propensity for delays on inbound and outbound traffic consequently having fewer travel problems for the flying public it serves? I can't help but wonder if the general delays experienced in PHL might be more of a cost burden than one might expect. If you reduce the cost burden...profits might increase.

Maybe, just maybe, US Airways might be looking at ways to make the travel experience for their international customers a bit more comfortable while at the same time increasing traffic at a somewhat under utilized international departure gateway. It is, after all, the southern hospitality!

Just my thoughts...

Happy Flying!


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7271 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 18):
Correct me if Im wrong... But I am sure when US Airways launched from MAN they only ever intended for it to me operated by 762 and all the A330's when on order were earmarked for other routes. But due to the success of the route it was once of the forst routes to be upgraded...

Parker said in the merger annoucement that the A330's they were ordering were to replace the 762's in the fleet and eliminate an a/c type....



Why do I fly???
25 Sean-SAN- : I haven't seen the numbers on MAN... but when I flew it, it was obvious we were making a lot of money on cargo... they loaded the entire front of the
26 Vega : Although that may true, the offset is the financial success of (international) flights. Remember, the PHL International Hub is frequently referred to
27 USPIT10L : Those would be my logical guesses as well, especially CLT-CDG, as it was served before. We'll just have to wait and see.
28 Post contains images Commavia : I hear that's why those Florence-Mexico City and Rio de Janeiro-Manila flights do so well.
29 RDUDDJI : While I don't really think we'll see anything trans-atlanticly from CLT for some time...CDG is the obvious choice, but I also think ZRH looks more att
30 Post contains images MD90fan : My fault, the guy posted MUC as one of the t/a destinations ex.CLT and I thought US flew it too How about no competition
31 Cubsrule : The interesting thing is that CLT-CDG was added in the spring of 2000, right at the last air travel peak. With traffic back to 2000 levels, and even e
32 PSA727 : If I had to bet on a new CLT-Europe route, it would be to CDG. I flew that route in 2000, while US was also flying PIT-CDG and PHL-CDG, and that fligh
33 Spoke2Spoke : Does this mean US will be purchasing more widebodies in the short-term? The 762's and 333's are stretched thin now. Maybe something temporary before t
34 UsAirways16bwi : Possible routes IMO: CLT-ARN CLT-CDG CLT-SNN/DUB CLT-ZRH CLT-AMS
35 A330323X : CLT-CDG was a disaster the first time around, it won't be returning. At one point, US briefly had 4x daily flights into CDG, and now they're down to 1
36 Vega : An "average" performer in the winter, or are you saying that PHL-CDG is an average performer in the peak spring/summer season also? I thought it did
37 A330323X : I meant average relative to the other US transatlantic flights. It's quite profitable on an absolute basis. But compared to the other US t/a flights,
38 Dutchjet : Interesting info.........again, we learn that packed airplanes dont mean profits. Its also "proof" of how difficult it is for an airline to operate i
39 Flyboyaz : I haven't heard anything about new flights out of CLT but they did say since we are certifying 3 more 757's for ETOPS, we will add 1 or 2 more new Eur
40 JoFMO : That is little bit of understatement. Paris is in Europe in the same range with Moscow and London. All have learly or a little bit obove 10Million. M
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