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Eating In The Air  
User currently offlineContinentalGuy From United States of America, joined May 2006, 90 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10334 times:

Wouldn't it be great if a 747-400 could have seats on the lower deck and a restaurant on he upper level? Why hasn't an airline tried that yet? There would still be inflight meals but for those in First/Business there would be a gourmet restaurant.

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10321 times:

Sounds great, but airlines want to make money!

Seats = Money

Personaly I would like the idea, but I don't think it would ever happen!

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10300 times:

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Thread starter):
a 747-400 could have seats on the lower deck and a restaurant on he upper level? Why hasn't an airline tried that yet?

They did. Pan Am had the upper deck of their 747's as the dining room for First Class, and as a lounge outside of mealtimes.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10300 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
They did. Pan Am had the upper deck of their 747's as the dining room for First Class, and as a lounge outside of mealtimes.

And it was wonderful! It was very short lived, but I did catch one flight with this service!


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10214 times:
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PA, as well as many early operators of the 747 classic had special use configurations for the upper deck. PA, LH, SN, AT, AA, NW, CI, SQ, IR all had lounges of one type or another. Almost all were converted to regular passenger seating within a few years. SN kept their lounge on the 747-100 because regular passenger seating would have required strengthening the floor.

I've not seen any non-conventional seating on 744's, although SV's 743's had a very large lounge on the upper deck for a short while.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlinePavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10164 times:

It would be a nice place to eat, but the food would still suck.

User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

As has already been well-noted, many airlines have tried this in the past, when the 747 first came out. When it comes right down to it, the airlines are able to make more money by putting extra seats to sell up there than they can by just having a dining room. If First and Business class passengers were willing to pay so much more than they do now just to have a dining room that it would make up for the loss of seats, they would do it. Unfortunately, that just isn't the reality.

User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10114 times:

I remember the bar on the United 747's in the early 70's. I was a kid, but it was something to me because in Indiana, minors are not allowed in bars even escorted.

I also remember those flights were not nearly full, once they were, I imagine them looking for places for more seats with no sentimental feelings at all.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineContinentalGuy From United States of America, joined May 2006, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10114 times:

What if a special ticket with dining room access was sold at a higher price.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10103 times:

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Reply 8):
What if a special ticket with dining room access was sold at a higher price.

How much extra would you pay?


User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10055 times:

In fact, the reason why the cockpit of the 747 is on the second floor and the basic generation of 747s only had three windows in the hump is because Pan Am specifically wanted a plane that had a restaurant like place where first class passengers could go and have a luxurious dinner. Secondly, it was believed that the 747s would be superseded by the Super Sonic airplanes like the concorde and when the 747s became out of style they would most likely be converted into freighters so the planes would be able to carry the maximum amount of cargo all the way up to its nose.

There is a website which is dedicated to Pan Am's service that has pictures of the upper deck cabin while the F/As were serving food. Can someone post the link, because I can't find it right now.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

In todays world of economics...it'll never happen.

Our (CO) DC-10-10s had pubs (an area at the 2L boarding door with 4 seats in a row facing the pub area, 4 seats at a bar and a booth with 4 seats - 2 across from each other. That lasted till we needed the seats for revenue. It was awesome and flight attendants and customers loved it.

I believe that there was a thread here about the A380 and SQ with regards to a seat map. No gym, duty free store, etc.

Economics drive the bottom line



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9959 times:

Well, VS still has a bar, so that must be uique today...


Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlineAirtrainer From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 1558 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9927 times:

Maybe not a gourmet restaurant but (corret me if I'm wrong) I think Backpackers Express wanted to do a thing like this, but unfortunately they failed to launch...


Life is short : eat dessert first !
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 13):
Well, VS still has a bar, so that must be uique today...

So right, unique indeed.

Side note...VS's bar is for Upper Class passengers, whereas the CO Pub Flights were for all customers.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9375 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9857 times:

well, you can never have a gourmet restaurant in an airliner simply because the food does not taste the same as it does on the ground. Worse, wines loose their taste as well, which is bad on the really expensive ones.

The solution is simple, have it on ther ground. Lufthansa's First Class terninal in Frankfurt is the best right now and they do serve gourmet food. BA is doing well n their F lounges and other airlines as well.

Even better, they do not waste expensive space in the planes-



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineUtapao From Thailand, joined Jul 2005, 645 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9805 times:

In mid-80's, LAX-FRA on PA's 747, the food served on tables/linen/crystal in the upstairs lounge was actually very, very good.

Off-topic from "eating", but on-track for lounges onboard.

Anyone remember the AA 707's First Class "lounge" as you entered the aircraft. It was right up front, across from the galley, where the closet or lav might be now on newer aircraft, and seems like it was a booth, semi-circle with a small table. Separated by first rows of FC seats by a plexiglass-type wall, if not mistaken.

And weren't some of the first movies shown onboarad via some sort of film/tape that caused each overhead screen to be a few second ahead/behind the ones in front/back of it?

Also seems like this was the first aircraft I remember with "TV's" in FC...they were actual small TV's on the arm rest console facing the row of seats behind it...used for the onboard movie.

Also, didn't UA's 8's have the "overhead" air vent on the seat back in front, and the reading light on the seatback next to your head??

Been a long time, and I was young, but those things always stuck in my mind. Did they exist, or have I fantasized it all over the years??
 confused 



Sawasdee khrab!
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9779 times:

Here it is:





I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9724 times:

Quoting Utapao (Reply 17):
Also, didn't UA's 8's have the "overhead" air vent on the seat back in front, and the reading light on the seatback next to your head??

There's an old Dick Van Dyke Show where that setup is clearly part of the seat.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9709 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Here's another lounge, but I think it's a mockup:






2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9669 times:

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 10):
In fact, the reason why the cockpit of the 747 is on the second floor and the basic generation of 747s only had three windows in the hump is because Pan Am specifically wanted a plane that had a restaurant like place where first class passengers could go and have a luxurious dinner. Secondly, it was believed that the 747s would be superseded by the Super Sonic airplanes like the concorde and when the 747s became out of style they would most likely be converted into freighters so the planes would be able to carry the maximum amount of cargo all the way up to its nose.

Wrong...the only reason is your #2. Cargo loading for the 747. In the original specs the upper deck had the flightdeck and lots of duct work. Trippe wanted a lounge, but as an afterthought.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9644 times:

By the way, here are some of the original architectural drawings of the Pan Am dining room (part of my collection).







User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9473 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
Here's another lounge, but I think it's a mockup:

That is a mockup. Boeing proposed the "Tiger Lounge", not for the upper deck, but for the lower deck, like PSA Tristar used to have.


USADreamliner  Big grin


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9453 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 23):
That is a mockup.

Boy, how cool would it be to get hold of that mockup for the basement? It would be even better than Kramer getting hold of the Merv Griffin set....

 biggrin 



2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 9078 times:

great idea, but i don't think any airline could pull this off without raiseing fares quite a bit

25 KiwiinOz : The concept of a casino lounge has been proposed by SQ for their, "Non Mammalian Specific" Jet, (A380). That is an interesting possibility as there is
26 Post contains images WhiteBirdFlyer : Alas, alack the economics of today's deregulated & "struggling" airlines wouldn't have room for such a swank upper room anymore, the space devoted to
27 QXatFAT : I would like this. Kind of like the Amtrak style. Every once and awhile I like to take a nice travel from California to Seattle on the train. Paying $
28 Post contains images American762 : Another example of this I found on the net while searching on Google, is suprisingly, my mother. Taken in 1968, when she was the personal secretary to
29 Flyabunch : I once had the opportunity to fly on one of AA's 747's with a upper lounge from LAX-JFK. The company I worked for allowed employees to fly first class
30 Skydrol : Great story! Also truly amazing to consider how much class there once was in air travel. It used to be considered a really amazing thing to do. I can
31 Lredlefsen : I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that modern international First seats (eg BA and even VS Upper Class) are effectively "2-seat dining booths"
32 Seatofyerpants : If you have experienced true airline first class service, classic railroad dining car service or even trans-oceanic steamship service, you might be a
33 RootsAir : nut then again, upper decks on the 747-100 were much smaller than on a 744
34 Jumbo747 : What route and what airline please.
35 FlyHI777 : Don't be so quick fellas, Virgin Atlantic already announced sleepers in his A380's and perhaps a casino! I wouldn't put it past this man to put a rest
36 Dtwclipper : On Pan Am, from JFK to LHR. I don't remember what year it was, I was 10 or so.
37 American762 : Another example of airline deregulation. Before 1978, airlines basically existed in a cooperative peace with little to no fare competition, as airline
38 Post contains images AeroWesty : I believe that crown goes to Qantas.
39 Dtwclipper : PA created what would become "Business Class" with its Clipper product. They wanted to raise fares, and the only way to do so accross the Atlantic wa
40 Post contains images AeroWesty : We've been over this many times on this site, and I know you and I are both old enough to remember when it all happened. Qantas created business clas
41 Mtair59 : I don't often contribute but enjoy reading the forum each day. In 1979 my parents and I were upgraded to Clipper Class on a Pan Am flight form JFK to
42 Post contains links Dtwclipper : We have a problem: 1978 First airline to introduce a new, separate class of service for business and full-fare economy passengers, Clipper Class http
43 AeroWesty : 1978 is a claim I don't recall hearing before. We might need to do a new thread on when the first business class was!
44 Dtwclipper : I'll let you do the honours!
45 Lredlefsen : I could take it or leave it, at least inflight. If I had to choose between doing SFO-LHR with a sit-down dinner followed by 9 hours sitting in a 1980
46 Post contains links American762 : As stated above, I was going by the www.panam.org firsts section. Sorry for starting everything. But this topic is about food. Lets get back to it. Yu
47 AeroWesty : I don't believe microwave ovens are allowed in airplane galleys. But there are some airlines who cook eggs to order, so there must be some type of ra
48 SingaporeBoy : SQ has a microwave oven in the 1st class galley of their 747-400s and their Business Class Galleys on the long haul 777 equipped with spacebed. I reme
49 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Yet your username is American762? Why not Panam747 or PanAm741 or something..
50 Pgtravel : A casino makes sense, because there are plenty of people who will throw their money away gambling. That's a big money maker. A restaurant . . . not s
51 EWRCabincrew : Our DC-10-10s had microwaves. They are missed. Our 747s also had fridges in the A zone (first class) galley. Yet another piece of equipment that is mi
52 Raffik : I am quoting this from BA's staff news paper, datedMay 11th 2006. "Fresh omelettes and scrambled eggs are promised for travellers from India. The Bri
53 AeroWesty : Interesting. There are a few people on flyertalk.com who insist that microwave ovens are a verboten item onboard. Won't that be the day!
54 FLYACYYZ : I know I'm dating myself, but in the days when AC still had First Class service. We had a temperature controlled plug in skillet to make eggs to orde
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