7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6763 times:
I was thinking a little bit ago about the "T" tail and its history. Who was the first to build the "T" tail? Boeing with the 727 or Douglas with the DC-9? And is there any more of a benefit with a 727, 717 or DC-9 as opposed to the 737, A320, etc.?
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1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5757 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6752 times:
A conventional tail probably won't work properly on aircraft with all of its engines rear-mounted, and a T-tail would look odd on an aircraft with wing-mounted engines IMO.
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Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6624 times:
Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 4): But that picture above is sure an ugly ass plane!!
Maybe not to your tastes, but that "ugly ass plane" brought a new generation of first's to the aviation industry.
Also if the UK Government had not insisted on the design being so specific to one airline (and same with the VC-10), then the aircraft industry could look very different today.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Sud Est SE-210 Caravelle the first T-tailer? The Caravelle made its maiden flight in the 1950s while the Trident only took to the air in 1962.
OV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 860 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6485 times:
Quoting ShowerOfSparks (Reply 13): But the Caravelle doesn't have a T-Tail, I think it barely rates as a cruciform tail.
Hm. Good point. I guess it's a matter of interpretation. I've always thought of T-tail as a tail where the horizontal stabilizer is mounted on the tailfin, but I must say I don't know if that complies with official classification. So it might indeed not be a T-tailed aircraft. Mea culpa.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6466 times:
Quoting OV735 (Reply 14): I've always thought of T-tail as a tail where the horizontal stabilizer is mounted on the tailfin, but I must say I don't know if that complies with official classification.
And all this time, I thought it meant "a tail that resembles a capital-letter T."
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YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4781 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6426 times:
Does the T-tail have any significant heavy lifting benefits over a conventional tail? The reason I ask is that a number of military heavy lift birds have this type of tail.
Also in terms of design philosophy why is it that a lot of Russian birds adopted this style, was it due to them favouring rear mounted engines?
OV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 860 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6392 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 15): And all this time, I thought it meant "a tail that resembles a capital-letter T."
Well, my T's look like the Caravelle's tail. And yes, I have been told a number of times that my handwriting is illegible.
Quoting YOWza (Reply 17): Also in terms of design philosophy why is it that a lot of Russian birds adopted this style, was it due to them favouring rear mounted engines?
I have heard that when Nikita Khruschev was visiting France in the very early 1960's, he flew there on a Tu-104 (where the engines are mounted in the wing root), and during his visit the French gave him a demo flight in a Caravelle. Khruschev was impressed by the low cabin noise in the French jet, compared to the Tu-104, resulting directly from the fact that the engines were mounted in the rear of the plane.
As he went back home to Moscow, he wanted Tupolev to make a new and better version of the Tu-124 with rear-mounted engines. The result was the Tu-134.
Practically the only way to have rear-mounted engines is to also have a T-tail, which the Tu-134 got. I guess Tupolev (and Ilyushin) saw it good and thus the later Il-62 and Tu-154 also had a T-tailed design.
Ptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 20 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6387 times:
Aircraft with a T-tail generally have a high wing or rear-mountend engines, so advantages must be related to that. I'm sure it has been discussed here.
As well as the Javelin, a few other fighers had a T-tail.
A disadvantage was blanking out the airflow over the tailplane at high angles of attack. The proposed Starfighter successor, the Lancer, had a low tail.
The Sabreliner has rear-mounted engines and a low tail.
Mandargb From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 195 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6371 times:
I think the problem was engine mounting on the wing was not all that sophisticated.
So they (HS Trident, TUs, ILs, DC-9s, and boeing) etc ended up mounting engines on the body. And the best place was near the rear end.
With that engine bulk there they had to make the tail as "T".
T tail I think has some disadvantage in the landing configuration that the low air flow over the control surfaces on the tail (vertical stabilizer) can be a problem.
This is because the whole body of the plane kind of in the front of the T tail in this configuration now blocks in this configuration.
(Read threads on 727 landing and some accident reposrs)
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2643 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 days ago) and read 6110 times:
Quoting YOWza (Reply 17): Also in terms of design philosophy why is it that a lot of Russian birds adopted this style, was it due to them favouring rear mounted engines?
The Russians designed their aircraft to be rugged, and be able to operate out of some pretty basic airstrips, including gravel runways. Putting the engines up on the tail reduced the chances of sucking debris into the engines.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4781 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6037 times:
Quoting OV735 (Reply 18): The result was the Tu-134.
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23): The Russians designed their aircraft to be rugged
Both great tidbits, thanks guys.
YOWza
12A whenever possible.
25 Thecheese: T-tails are a benefit to some designs, because they keep the horizontal control surface well away from the wing's lift-shadow at low angles-of-attack
26 LTU932: No, it was one of the original 757 designs that had a T-Tail. Does anyone have a picture of that T-Tail 757 design?
28 Rampkontroler: Thanks for the laugh! Ouch! Exactly! Tis all in the eye of the beholder! I can't imagine what you would think of its unique landing gear configuratio
29 Yhmfan: This is what I found on Wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-tail There are pros and cons to this arrangement. Pros The tailplane surfaces are k
30 KevinBG: I worked for Boeing(in Everett) on the 767 program in the late 70's. The original 767 and 757 design did have "T" tails. The idea was that they'd use
31 Mogget: The Trident may have been a classic, but that nosewheel configuration looks ridiculous.
32 BeechNut: My guess is that it has something to do with rear loading, it keeps the horizontal stabilizer out of the way of being potentially damaged during load
33 Sphealey: I have read in many sources that an additional factor was that Juan Trippe thought T-tails looked cool, and pressured both Boeing and Douglas to use t
37 Leezyjet: I did think about the Caravelle, but then decided that it wasn't a true T-tail in the context of this thread.
38 DeltaRules: Two more T-tails with wing mounted engines: DeltaRules
39 RayChuang: If I remember correctly, the first time they discovered the problem with deep stall on a T-tail plane was during a high angle-of-attack test with the
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