Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13712 times:
Thanks for the link....
I studied the Ebola virus during my graduate infectious disease class......the Ebola virus is one of the deadliest virus known to man...85% mortality rate within 1 week!
It's imperative to get the flight list and contact all people (as well as crew on board) ASAP and have them go to the hospital for observations....
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2402 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13694 times:
Freaky - I can't believe she was cleared to fly. Maybe this'll prompt authorities in other countries to screen for communicable diseases prior to allowing pax to board, much in the same way arriving pax are screened for Avian flu and SARS in Asia.
797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1821 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13169 times:
Damn I thought that virus didn't exist no more. I remember watching the movie and I got freaked out. I'm really scared of all viruses and deseases and this is surely one of the deadliest ones.
So whatr happened? Did the aircraft and passengers got screened by specialists? That could mean a very harmful situation!
Cheers
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
So true, i actually never thought about what the person may have touched or ofcourse what i had touched.
Although, atleast if i were to have a Cold and pass it on then 99.9999999% of the time i wouldn't kill anyone.
And, in this case she could have touched that aircraft and this VS A346 may have to be Disinfected from head to foot. That is a suitable start, afterall. If that aircraft is still flying, think about all of the people that may be carrying the virus.
Well, there is not much for you to worry about. Movies put in the 'worst' possible scenario to make them much more exciting, but if caught early i think Ebola can be treated and there is a massive chance of survival. In the case of this woman, nobody knew what was wrong with her until it was too late.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13080 times:
Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 7): In the case of Ebola, you can only pass it on through the same was as a Cold or Flu or Vomitting. This woman would not have know that this would happen, so she can hardly be called 'Selfish'.
actually that's incorrect...the Ebola virus (like it's cousin the Marburg virus) can be spread easily....granted this woman probably had no idea she was carrying it......and once it hit, it was basically over..
Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 8): And had been to the Ebola capital of the world?
no...Lesotho is not the "Ebola capital of the world"....Zaire, Sudan, Ivory-Coast and Congo are the highest frequency of the Ebola outbreak...
here's a link for those who don't know too much about it..
Asturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 1934 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13036 times:
The Ebola virus is a nasty piece of work, but no need to panic over it. The infectious cycle of the virus ensures that a pandemic is impossible. In the initial stages it is not contagious, so in this case it is nigh impossible that the infected person spread the virus to anyone else aboard the plane and the virus can only be spread through infected bodily fluids. As the disease progresses vomiti and fluids from bodily orifices of the infected person can present a biohazard risk.
Bottom line is that being in a plane with a person experiencing the initial stages of Ebola infection is safe enough. Scary, but safe
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12989 times:
Quoting Asturias (Reply 14): The Ebola virus is a nasty piece of work, but no need to panic over it. The infectious cycle of the virus ensures that a pandemic is impossible. In the initial stages it is not contagious, so in this case it is nigh impossible that the infected person spread the virus to anyone else aboard the plane and the virus can only be spread through infected bodily fluids. As the disease progresses vomiti and fluids from bodily orifices of the infected person can present a biohazard risk.
I don't think anyone should be worried about a pandemic, but the people in the plane should be concerned....especially children and the elderly
Asturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 1934 posts, RR: 17 Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12902 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15): I don't think anyone should be worried about a pandemic, but the people in the plane should be concerned....especially children and the elderly
As I said, no need to worry. In the early stages Ebola is not contagious unless you share a needle with the infected person or share body fluids directly in some other way. So unless the person is vomiting and bleeding from the eyes, mouth and/or anal cavity *on you* you'd be safe from infection.
The woman was vomiting and anyone exposed to that could possibly have been infected *if there was blood in the vomit*, but just sharing the same plane is safe. Asides from the flight attendants who assisted the woman and the people seating immediately next to her no-one could have cought the virus. Even the F/As and the closest passangers are likely to have escaped without infection.
Ebola does not spread like influenza. It must be through infected bodily fluids, such as insterstitial fluid or blood (excluding saliva) and it must enter another person's bodily fluids through direct exposure (such as through a shared needle) or single cellular mucous tissue. An Ebola infected patient in the late stages of the disease sneezing at a person is not going to result in infection automatically. There has to be an exchange in bodily fluids (not saliva) but in the late stages of Ebola infection bleeding out of orifices is a symptom and therefore increases the chance of infection.
Simply put, unless blood from the infected person entered the blood of a non-infected person occurred then no spreading of the virus happened.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12873 times:
Quoting Asturias (Reply 16): As I said, no need to worry. In the early stages Ebola is not contagious unless you share a needle with the infected person or share body fluids directly in some other way. So unless the person is vomiting and bleeding from the eyes, mouth and/or anal cavity *on you* you'd be safe from infection.
Quoting Asturias (Reply 16): bola does not spread like influenza. It must be through infected bodily fluids, such as insterstitial fluid or blood (excluding saliva) and it must enter another person's bodily fluids through direct exposure (such as through a shared needle) or single cellular mucous tissue. An Ebola infected patient in the late stages of the disease sneezing at a person is not going to result in infection automatically. There has to be an exchange in bodily fluids (not saliva) but in the late stages of Ebola infection bleeding out of orifices is a symptom and therefore increases the chance of infection.
that's actually not completely correct....though the usual transmission of the virus is as you stated above, during my graduate infectious diseases class (as well as my other graduate genetics, pharmacology, etc. classes), I had to do an extensive paper on the Ebola virus, and there were reports of the virus spreading via "unconventional" methods....hence, as a prudent measure, the need for everyone on the plane to be checked.....
CXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12843 times:
Condolences to the deceased woman's family.........but honestly its quite frightening. Even though its highly unlikely that ebola will form a pandemic, this incident shows it can still affect small numbers of people VERY FAR from its source.
I hope VS takes a thorough cleaning of its aircraft!!!!
The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
Asturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 1934 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12832 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17): that's actually not completely correct....though the usual transmission of the virus is as you stated above, during my graduate infectious diseases class (as well as my other graduate genetics, pharmacology, etc. classes), I had to do an extensive paper on the Ebola virus, and there were reports of the virus spreading via "unconventional" methods....hence, as a prudent measure, the need for everyone on the plane to be checked.....
Of course a prudent measure is certainly for everyone on the plane to be checked, I agree. The unconventional means are, as you know, far less likely so if I was on that plane I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. That woman was in the early stages of infection and Ebola is non-contagious in documented outbreaks in the early stages. Infection and spreading usually occurs in hospitals or shelters where hygene is a rare luxury. I am just adressing the concerns of people who posted above gravely concerned over the safety of the other passengers on the flight.
Hey, nice to see another biologist in these forums. I guess we aviation enthusiasts are found everywhere
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12777 times:
Quoting Asturias (Reply 19): . The unconventional means are, as you know, far less likely so if I was on that plane I wouldn't lose any sleep over it
I really wouldn't too much either..but I would probably go to the doctor for a simple check up.....
Quoting Asturias (Reply 19): That woman was in the early stages of infection and Ebola is non-contagious in documented outbreaks in the early stages.
true.....and lets hope she was in the early stages of Ebola....one can't always trust news sources...
Quoting Asturias (Reply 19): I am just adressing the concerns of people who posted above gravely concerned over the safety of the other passengers on the flight.
true..there is no need for mass hysteria..but we both know a little bit of prudence goes a long way...
Quoting Asturias (Reply 19):
Hey, nice to see another biologist in these forums. I guess we aviation enthusiasts are found everywhere
MarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12723 times:
I think the most important point here is that we do not know for certain that this was, in fact, Ebola. The news report says NOTHING about serology testing (i.e. testing of the blood, etc.) and simply states that the symptoms match that of Ebola.
How often do you think a West London hospital actually sees Ebola? They probably had to look it up in a textbook.
There isn't just one type of hemorrhagic fever...less dramatic viruses, such as Yellow Fever, also cause people to bleed out. There are also several variants of ebola, like Marburg or Zaire, and it is important to find out which strain it is as the mortality rate differs. Until we get labratory confirmation of the type of virus, this report is nothing more than the media jumping the gun, and it is rediculous to speculate at this point.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12716 times:
Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 21): I think the most important point here is that we do not know for certain that this was, in fact, Ebola. The news report says NOTHING about serology testing (i.e. testing of the blood, etc.) and simply states that the symptoms match that of Ebola.
Seanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12678 times:
Quoting Asturias (Reply 16): The woman was vomiting and anyone exposed to that could possibly have been infected *if there was blood in the vomit*, but just sharing the same plane is safe. Asides from the flight attendants who assisted the woman and the people seating immediately next to her no-one could have cought the virus. Even the F/As and the closest passangers are likely to have escaped without infection.
Are flight attendants taught to treat any bodily fluids as potential biohazards? I know when I was working at an amusenment park we were taught not to handle any bodily fluids without gloves, and to use a strong disinfectant.
Amhilde From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 643 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12678 times:
I thought that Ebola was more or less contained to certain very rural areas of certain parts of Africa and that it doesnt get out very often because these areas are so remote.
MarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12670 times:
Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 24): Are flight attendants taught to treat any bodily fluids as potential biohazards?
Yes, they are. Cabin crew are also given special kit to clean up soiled material. Also, in the era of avian flu, they may also have been given masks to wear.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2644 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12645 times:
Quoting Asturias (Reply 19): That woman was in the early stages of infection and Ebola is non-contagious in documented outbreaks in the early stages.
I don't know much about Ebola so please don't think I'm trying to question your expertise. Something doesn't sound right though, so I'm hoping you can help me understand. If the woman was violently ill on the aircraft, and is dead a day later, would she have been considered to be in the early stages of infection while on the aircraft? Wouldn't the early stages have been the flu like symptoms back in South Africa?
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12612 times:
Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 23): We should have a showing of the movie "Outbreak", Jacob...
I would like to see the reactions of the pax if that is shown on the plane....especially on a flight where it is the only form of entertainment....that would make for some serious entertainment.......
Broocy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12517 times:
Let's wait until the results of the post mortem are out. The report, from a tabloid paper harldy reknown for its journalistic expertise, said she presented symptoms of the ebola virus, but that is not a confirmation of the virus. Aches, pains, vomiting and death can be caused by a number of diseases, including common ones like meningitis.
Ebola has traditionally come from equatorial Africa, while Lesotho is in the temperate regions. It is directly linked to viruses in chimpanzees and is suspected to be started when contaminated chimp meat is eat. As far as I am aware, there are no chimps in Lesotho.
While I wouldn't discount Ebola, the story doesn't quite add up quite yet, IMO.
25 Checo77: I think you are completely right. The thing that Asturias said is nice, but I think he is wrong. If a pax dies HOURS after leaving the plane, that is
26 Asturias: Well spotted. Whether this was Ebola or not remains part of the question. The press has been known to get things wrong, from time to time. However, o
27 FlyDreamliner: Amen. People should just use common sense. I can't imagine how the people on that flight must feel now.
28 777fan: Could have been meningitis, yes? High fever, flu-like symptoms, etc. I suppose we'll see. Regardless, everyone on that plane is at risk to contract so
29 Buslover: Read in the article: Her symptoms matched those of the viral haemorraghing fever, ebola. The results of a post mortem are awaited. So let's wait for n
30 SAA346: With that statement about 40% of ZA domestic PAX wouldn't be flying today - middle of winter y'know. Early start of malaria is pretty much the same a
31 BAtriple7: Er, that is so wrong. It is nearly impossible to treat Ebola, especially in the early stages when it can't be detected. See the following from Brown
32 ANother: I'm confused - this article in the Mirror seems to be the only thing in the media. Nothing on the BBC or the VS web-site etc. etc. Any a.netters with
33 CHRISBA777ER: Mate its nowhere near 85%, and the incubation period can be a lot longer than a week. Depending on which strain, its anywhere between 20-50% lethal.
34 BAtriple7: What are you on about? This is like saying a DC10 is a twinjet No seriously, you are very incorrect - please talk about what you know. See the follow
35 Timboflier215: My condolences to the woman's family - a truly horrible thing to happen to them. Thanks Jacobin777 for your knowledgeable replies - I know v little a
36 CHRISBA777ER: You are talking about a particular strain of the Ebola virus - if you take an average of ALL the occurences, and not just Zaire, the mortality rate i
37 Contrails: Very strange...this type of story should have caused Fox News to cancel all programming so they could cover the story to the finite detail. Yet, this
38 MetalInyoni: in all fairness to the woman she was flying from JHB having come from Lesotho which is not an epicentre of the Ebola virus - how was she to know that
39 Crewrest: Virgin have said she didn't have Ebola.
40 StarGoldLHR: Fastest way to spread a virus isnt by a door knob.. it's handing money. A coin can change hands upto 10 times in an hour. If someone wiped there nose
41 Flying Belgian: At the moment they are fearing an ebola outbreak coming from bats in Gabon... This disease is horrible to die from... FB.
42 BAtriple7: You are right; but EBO-Z is the strain which has affected most people since it first appeared. The other strains, including the Sudan airborne spread
44 Checo77: Dont even tell me! Bleeding from your eyes, nose, ears, mouth, vomiting blood, bloody diarrhea (sp) has to be HORRIBLE. I dont even imagine a death l
45 Timboflier215: Thank-you! I'm glad at least somebody on here still has feelings. Such a sad case all round. I'm glad that it doesn't seem to have been ebola, and th
46 Asturias: No, I am not crazy. I just know what I'm talking about. I get paid to know these things. Ebola is not extremely contagious, especially in the early s
47 Drinkstrolley: Maybe she didn't know..............bit strong to call her a bitch.
48 Ctbarnes: A lot of the hysteria around Ebola is because it it is a violent disease, but it spreads so rapidly that one is dead before it has a chance to be tran
49 Faustino927: I took a Microbiology class for my Nursing internship and studied the Ebola virus. I agree with Jacobin777. The passengers and crew should go to the
50 Crewrest: Guys, calm down, I say again, Virgin have said she doesn't have Ebola.
51 Jacobin777: sorry mate, but you are off...it is around 80-85% (I didn't mention anything about which subspecies of strain, but Ebola in general).....the reason i
52 MarkHKG: Excellent! Thanks, Crewrest. We can all stop breathing through our respirators now.
53 Asturias: Very good post Jacobin777, I am in full agreement. Now where is that Respected User feature... *click*, so welcome to my list (it's a short list ) che
54 Checo77: Can you provide a source or link? Thanks, Adam
55 Aerofan: Ok - the hysteria!! VS has said it was not Ebola. Have we missed that?
57 Checo77: Can you provide a source or link? Thanks, Adam
58 Ttailsteve: Any idea what she had if she did not have Ebola? Something caused her to die and that something obviously was not apparent to the doctor she saw befo
59 EZEIZA: I agree but automatically a question pops up. What did she have? She obviously had some sort of disease that killed her pretty quickly. That's scary
60 Timboflier215: Welcome to my RU list as well Jacobin777 - your posts on here are highly reliable and unbiased. I am aware (now) that ebola is fairly difficult to ca
61 Christeljs: Maybe she did die of Ebola, but VS are too worried about loosing passengers. Who knows.
62 BAtriple7: See post above by CHRISBA777ER. The -Z (Zaire) strain is bodily fluids, one of the other strains can actually be spread airborne.
63 Timboflier215: I can't see that tbh, especially considering this seems only to have been reported in one (tabloid) newspaper. If they did lie to cover it up and the
64 Broocy: What a ridiculous statement! The diagnosis came from the hospital. VS was only passing on information to them from medical sources. An ebola case req
65 EbbUK: posts such as this illustrate just how far ahead the Americans are compared to the rest of the world. How couldn Virgin miss that? Geeze indeed!
66 Jacobin777: Thank you very much for putting me on your RSU list. Since the lady was vomiting and there was a chance of some blood in the sputum...that would have
67 We're Nuts: Ebola Reston is airborne, and it is not lethal to humans. There is a lot of misinformation on this thread that could be cleared up very quickly by re
68 Timboflier215: Well I try! Lol. Lol. Hardly a first for a.net! It does seem overall as though there was little to worry about in terms of cross-infection, and I thi
69 Julius2005: This is something very sad to hear this kind ofthing that are actually happening all over. This make us think taht all what we do is never enough. Can
70 BAtriple7: Instead of referring to Wikipedia, which is known for its frankly often far-out writing....if people are interested in Ebola information just go to t
71 Leezyjet: And the ground staff, engineers, ambulance drivers/paramedics, hospital staff, a/c cleaners, caterers etc. Not just cabin crew and passengers were in
72 We're Nuts: This article is quite accurate and well written. With no affected humans, it would be very difficult to have a large Reston outbreak. I'd go so far a
74 Jacobin777: It's true..you understood the basic concepts..and that's most important.. Most people on this board aren't getting all hysterical (there are a couple
75 UA772IAD: Ebola spreads are acute, according to the CDC and my own research in infectious diseases. There is no massive chance of survival, I'm afraid. Treatme
77 We're Nuts: The Hot Zone blows Ebola out of proportion. The virus doesn't turn your insides into jelly and only about 10% of infected patients bleed externally.
78 MarkHKG: True, but I swear that book has done more to inspire a generation of microbiologists and infectious disease experts than anything else...and I must a
79 UA772IAD: Yes it doesin someways- but that depends on the strain, and the individual. I haven't read the book in a few years, but I believe only the first pati
80 UA772IAD: I also agree with someone else in the forum, if this woman did have Ebola, or investigators seriously suspected it, then the world would have heard ab
81 Jacobin777: merci... actually my flight just flew into SJC about 90 minutes ago....nice 180 u-turn to land on the 12's...
82 We're Nuts: He merged several different virii to get the "strain" he wrote about in the book, in particular Marburg, a much scarier VHF if you ask me.
83 BAtriple7: Hey no problem, I'm glad even on a.net we all agree the CDC is the source to go by Welcome to my RU list!
84 Timboflier215: Absolutely! And thank you for bringing that up - it's easy to forget how many people can be involved in a case like this. I did not mean to ignore th
85 AR385: In an epidemic, or a pandemic, statistically it has been shown that a third of the population will survive. This probably has to do with natural sele
86 UA772IAD: Your right, I remember now. Yes, the first case was Marburg- also very frightening. Good call! Thanks! And you're now on mine, too.
87 Jacobin777: your welcome.. now if I can only make a larger contribution in aviation.. Yah...in fact, it was knowledge of the Marburg virus which allowed scientis
88 UA772IAD: From the north. Hmm, I've seen traffic coming in from the south the past few days... maybe that changes at night? I can tell you one thing, it is HOT
89 Jacobin777: UA772IAD....I would assume that it depends basically depends on the winds.....as I've flown into SJC from both the north and south....actually, on Tu
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