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L1011 Engine? (pic)  
User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10294 times:

Was #2 of the day, and could not find an explaination of what happened? Does anyone what could have possibly caused a picture like this? Thanks!!!


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Photo © Nestor Duran



P.S. Searched all the forums, didn't see anything posted, sorry if it is a repeat!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10278 times:

Quoting CBPhoto (Thread starter):
Does anyone what could have possibly caused a picture like this?

It looked familiar to me, so I searched through the registration. Now if you read the remark of the photo below, you'll know what happened to it.


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Photo © LP Photos



User currently offlinePhxplanes From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10230 times:

They still havent fixed it? It seems like they would have atleast taken the engine off or something by now.

User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10187 times:

Quoting Phxplanes (Reply 2):
They still havent fixed it? It seems like they would have atleast taken the engine off or something by now.

I've found the following at Airlinerlist.com.

"s str Miami North Side 24.10.02 Arrow Air col, center engine missing, to be brup, Agro Air to Tri-Star Enterprises Ltd 21.11.02, s03.04.03 some parts missing, s03.05 white, repo prepared for new user when ext. damaged by hurricane Wilma ar. 24.10.05, engine #1 and stabilizers damaged, to be repaired 11.05 with parts from cn 1063"


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9903 times:

It can easily be fixed... Find another Nacelle and engine, repair the cracked or dented parts with doublers. Send it on its way.

User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9884 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 4):
It can easily be fixed... Find another Nacelle and engine, repair the cracked or dented parts with doublers. Send it on its way.

Replacement parts for the L-1011 are few and far between. Rollos-Royce parts are even scarcer. I don't think it is economicaly feasible to repair that airplane.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9842 times:

And to think, some folks don't understand why airlines and aircraft owners fly their aircraft off airports that are about to be impacted by tropical storms and hurricanes...

Too bad this one wasn't, or maybe couldn't...


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9716 times:

I would fly it with just 2 engines  Smile

My first time to ever see a L-1011 engine that shows the "TRISTAR" logo



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineTZTristar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1457 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9686 times:

Actually, our N194AT (s/n 1230) has been sold to the owner of this aircraft and will be used to return it to service. 194 should be making a trip from IND to OPF soon.


35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9489 times:

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1):
It looked familiar to me, so I searched through the registration. Now if you read the remark of the photo below, you'll know what happened to it.

Very interesting indeed, Thanks for the picture. Heres my question, did the wind tip the aircraft onto its engine, or did a piece of debris hit the engine? The reason I ask is, if the entire aircraft was tiped on it's engine, could that mean there is damage to the wing spares and where the wing connects to the fusalage?
thanks for all of your help!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9275 times:

Did any other engines apart from those flown by LTU have those markings? Could it be that the nacelle shown in the pic was orginally on an LTU aircraft or were other Tristars made with the same logo on the engines?


British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9253 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 10):
Did any other engines apart from those flown by LTU have those markings? Could it be that the nacelle shown in the pic was orginally on an LTU aircraft or were other Tristars made with the same logo on the engines?

Its nothing more than a decal installed by the operator. Just like the RR stickers.

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 9):
Very interesting indeed, Thanks for the picture. Heres my question, did the wind tip the aircraft onto its engine, or did a piece of debris hit the engine? The reason I ask is, if the entire aircraft was tiped on it's engine, could that mean there is damage to the wing spares and where the wing connects to the fusalage?
thanks for all of your help!

I think it was a stand that broke loose in the wind that did the damage. Like the blue one behind the wing or the yellow on in the background.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9245 times:

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 9):
Heres my question, did the wind tip the aircraft onto its engine, or did a piece of debris hit the engine? The reason I ask is, if the entire aircraft was tiped on it's engine, could that mean there is damage to the wing spares and where the wing connects to the fusalage?
thanks for all of your help!

A quick search found that the aircraft moved from its parking spot and was struck by loose ground equipment being blown around by the hurricane.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9145 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
A quick search found that the aircraft moved from its parking spot and was struck by loose ground equipment being blown around by the hurricane.

Thanks!!!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8728 times:

Quoting CBPhoto (Thread starter):
Does anyone what could have possibly caused a picture like this?

As you probably already know, but...


Quoting Malaysia (Reply 7):
My first time to ever see a L-1011 engine that shows the "TRISTAR" logo

I thought the old DL planes had them on the engines but I could be wrong. Maybe it was a sticker somewhere else on the plane.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):

ROFL!!!  rotfl 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently onlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1457 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7407 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 10):
Did any other engines apart from those flown by LTU have those markings? Could it be that the nacelle shown in the pic was orginally on an LTU aircraft or were other Tristars made with the same logo on the engines?

You are very astute, because the owner of this damaged aircraft previously purchased N822DE (in the photo below) for spares which was an ex-LTU bird D-AERP. Parts off it before it was scrapped in OPF where used for N306GB and thus the nose cowl you see in the damage photo above.


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Suresh A. Atapattu




35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 16):
You are very astute, because the owner of this damaged aircraft previously purchased N822DE (in the photo below) for spares which was an ex-LTU bird D-AERP. Parts off it before it was scrapped in OPF where used for N306GB and thus the nose cowl you see in the damage photo above.

TZTristar500, I don't want to say your wrong but I would like to point out that there may be a small problem with your scenario. The damaged airplane is s/n 1138 an L-1011-200 equipped with RB-211-524 engines, the scrapped airplane is s/n 1152 an L-1011-1 equipped with RB-211-22B's. There is a difference between the the forward cowls of the RB-211-22B and -524. The -22B has a fairing that starts almost at the front lip and fairs back in to the pylon. The -524 engine has a much shorter and flatter fairing, called a snow shovel sets back about a foot from the lip. Again, I can't say your wrong because I don't have an IPC to check interchangeability but I do know there is a difference. Maybe you can look it up at work?


User currently offlineWaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Good to hear that that particular tristar will be repaired, I've seen it sitting in front of that hangar for what seems like a couple years now every time I'm at the airport, and I've been hoping that it would return to service instead of being shuttled to OPF for scrapping. That area always has some interesting aircraft, recently I've seen some ex-Delta aircraft (a 762 and an MD80) being repainted there and there's always a good collection of 727's from around the caribbean

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5302 times:

DL's TriStars had the logo on the inlet duct for the #2 engine.... I think Eastern's were there too.

Classiest airplane that ever flew.


User currently onlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1457 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 17):
TZTristar500, I don't want to say your wrong but I would like to point out that there may be a small problem with your scenario. The damaged airplane is s/n 1138 an L-1011-200 equipped with RB-211-524 engines, the scrapped airplane is s/n 1152 an L-1011-1 equipped with RB-211-22B's. There is a difference between the the forward cowls of the RB-211-22B and -524. The -22B has a fairing that starts almost at the front lip and fairs back in to the pylon. The -524 engine has a much shorter and flatter fairing, called a snow shovel sets back about a foot from the lip. Again, I can't say your wrong because I don't have an IPC to check interchangeability but I do know there is a difference. Maybe you can look it up at work?

Hey Carl,
Yes, you are correct in that the cowlings are different and I was thinking about that, but there are a couple of factors that must have occured in this case.

The damaged airplane N306GB s/n 1183 was originally delivered as a -100 to Gulf Air and I noticed it was converted to a -200 in 1982. Now if a -100 with -22B's originally can be converted to a -200 with -524s, can the reverse occur and be de-moded back to -22B power? Logic would say yes, but there may be other factors invloved. There definitely would be if it was US registered with the FAA like it is now. However, I understand that this company, AVTEC, that owns N306GB want to register it in some African country where regulations are a bit more "generous".

To make this mystery more interesting, the link below shows photos of s/n 1152 with the cowlings installed. It is clear to me that the same nose cowl and possibly the engines are now on N306GB since N822DE s/n 1152 was also owned by AVTEC.

http://jetphotos.net/census/aircraft.php?reg=N822DE&msn=1152

My guess is this company de-moded this aircraft back to a -100 and installed the -22B's and cowlings off s/n 1152 onto s/n 1183. Why else would this company want to buy N194AT which is also a -100 and it is obvious that s/n 1152 now needs a new nose and core cowls and perhaps spare engines. Servicable -22B engines and nose cowls are very rare finds these days and -524s where probably worth more and/or too expensive to find servicable.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently onlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1457 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 17):
TZTristar500, I don't want to say your wrong but I would like to point out that there may be a small problem with your scenario. The damaged airplane is s/n 1138 an L-1011-200 equipped with RB-211-524 engines, the scrapped airplane is s/n 1152 an L-1011-1 equipped with RB-211-22B's. There is a difference between the the forward cowls of the RB-211-22B and -524. The -22B has a fairing that starts almost at the front lip and fairs back in to the pylon. The -524 engine has a much shorter and flatter fairing, called a snow shovel sets back about a foot from the lip. Again, I can't say your wrong because I don't have an IPC to check interchangeability but I do know there is a difference. Maybe you can look it up at work?

Hey Carl,
Yes, you are correct in that the cowlings are different and I was thinking about that, but there are a couple of factors that must have occured in this case.

The damaged airplane N306GB s/n 1183 was originally delivered as a -100 to Gulf Air and I noticed it was converted to a -200 in 1982. Now if a -100 with -22B's originally can be converted to a -200 with -524s, can the reverse occur and be de-moded back to -22B power? Logic would say yes, but there may be other factors invloved. There definitely would be if it was US registered with the FAA like it is now. However, I understand that this company, AVTEC, that owns N306GB want to register it in some African country where regulations are a bit more "generous".

To make this mystery more interesting, the link below shows photos of s/n 1152 with the cowlings installed. It is clear to me that the same nose cowl and possibly the engines are now on N306GB since N822DE s/n 1152 was also owned by AVTEC.

http://jetphotos.net/census/aircraft.php?reg=N822DE&msn=1152

My guess is this company de-moded this aircraft back to a -100 and installed the -22B's and cowlings off s/n 1152 onto s/n 1183. Why else would this company want to buy N194AT which is also a -100 and it is obvious that s/n 1152 now needs a new nose and core cowls and perhaps spare engines. Servicable -22B engines and nose cowls are very rare finds these days and -524s where probably worth more and/or too expensive to find servicable.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

TZTristar500, Convert it back to a -100 interesting, to be legal it would take a Lockheed Service Bulletin but "I think things that happen in Miami are best left in Miami", if you know what I mean?

User currently offlineAirliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

That is correct, N306GB has been sitting in front of the F&E facility for quite a long time. During the last 2005 hurricane season, N306GB was turn 180 to the right and nose lifted many times leaving #2 engine, both elevators, and the horizontal stabilizer severly damaged. Also #1 engine, and some leading edge slats were damaged by ground equipment that was near the aircraft. I don't see this aircraft being ferried to OPF for scrap. I think that if they decide to scrap it will be done here at MIA. Last year there was an aircraft that was scrapped here at MIA (N800US) and early this year we had another one that was scrapped as well (C-GACC).

http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5711176

Regards,
Airliner777


User currently offlineAirliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Update: Today, an ATA (N194AT) L-1011 arrived to MIA and it was parked right next to N306GB. I have no clue on what they are planning on doing. Provably remove as many parts as possible from 306, and load them into 194 for a new oparator looking to have some spare parts available. Let's see what happens.

Airliner777


25 TristarSteve : I worked for GF when we converted the aircraft from -100 to -200. There was work carried out in advance on the air system, but the actual engine chan
26 TZTriStar500 : N194AT actually arrived on May 24th and was purchased by the owner of N306GB as a parts/engine donor to repair 306. 306 will return to service and 19
27 Dl_mech : DL's ship 724 used to swap -22B's for -524's during the 80's when it was needed for Europe. Also, DL put -524's on the two leased TWA birds during th
28 Wjcandee : Hmmmm.... I was under the impression that one reason that ATA retired 194 in the first place was that the -22Bs weren't sustainable and that (basical
29 TristarSteve : I used to look after TWA L1011 in ARN from 1987-91? when they ceased ops there. With L1011-100 there was no problem with ARN-JFK. But when they sent
30 TZTriStar500 : Its much easier to de-mod an aircraft back to an engine with a lower thrust rating than the other way around. If it was already modified structurally
31 Wjcandee : Okie-dokey. That's what I understood based on posts by various ATA folks, I think including yourself. One other thing that's interesting to me, thoug
32 TristarSteve : There are numerous differences between the two marks of RB211, but the engine diameter and the mounts and the cowlings and the reverser are all the s
33 Wjcandee : Thanks TriStarSteve! I now have a sense of the order of magnitude of what's required.
34 Post contains images Airliner777 : Hey, thanks for the heads up!
35 Dl_mech : We did install and certify the extra doors on D-AERT (N501GB) for Rich International. We used to have an Army of L-1011 people at DL.....Alas, No Mor
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