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Boeing: Interest In 747-8 From 10 Asian, UK Airlin  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12192 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12421 times:
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conews&tkr=BA:US

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12348 times:

Where did you read UK?

Quote:
Boeing Sees Interest in 747-8 Plane From Asia, Europe (Update1)
May 24, 2006 03:38 EDT -- Boeing Co., the world's second- largest commercial aircraft maker, said as many as 10 airlines in Asia and Europe are interested in the longer, more fuel- efficient version of its 747 jetliner.


[Edited 2006-05-24 09:52:56]


There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12326 times:

That is a very short article.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 1):
Where did you read UK?

Good question. I didn't read UK...heck there was very little information there to begin with. It says "Boeing Sees Interest in 747-8 Plane From Asia, Europe"

That could be LH, AF, BA, VS or Corsair for all we know.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12309 times:

I'm interested as well but i'm not an airline.

Can i be counted ?



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4165 posts, RR: 90
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12291 times:
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Quoting Glareskin (Reply 1):
Where did you read UK?

The title in the link provided is where 777ER got that though it was more Europe rather than UK specific. Lot's of talk on LH. Here is some more from that link;

Bloomberg May 24 By Vicki Kwong
``We see five or six airlines in Asia that are interested in both the passenger and freighter versions of the airplanes,'' Randy Tinseth, head of sales, marketing and in-service support for the 747 program, said in an interview in Hong Kong today.

``And probably three or four in Europe,'' he said, without identifying potential customers.


[END - Fair use excerpt from link provided in original post ]

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineAbba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12279 times:

Showing interest is one thing - buying an entirely different matter. I see no major potential for the 748 in Asia save for cargo and will be highly surprised to see the thing fly for CX, SQ et al

Abba


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12165 times:

This is beginning to sound suspiciously like Leahy's talk about how many airlines are interested in the A380. It amounts to calling them up and asking if they've heard of it and then counting that as interest.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12165 times:

Quoting Abba (Reply 5):
Showing interest is one thing - buying an entirely different matter. I see no major potential for the 748 in Asia save for cargo and will be highly surprised to see the thing fly for CX, SQ et al

Abba

I disagree. There are several airlines that are very very satisified 747 operators that would like to stay with the type and seem unwilling to make a commitment to the A380....or have/will determine that they require something that bridges that gap between the A346/773 category and the A380. Unfortuneatly, this small articles gives us little new information.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7074 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12070 times:

Quoting Abba (Reply 5):
et al

Do you mean El Al ?  Wink

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
`And probably three or four in Europe,'' he said, without identifying potential customers.

Number one being defininately Lufthansa -since we all know that they stated more than once that they are very interested.
Since there are no other huge airlines left in Europe that have the need for a A380/747 sized plane I would guess BA, VS and AF/KLM.
I doubt that IB will go for the 747-8 - but would not rule that out completely.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12192 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12040 times:
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Quoting Glom (Reply 6):
This is beginning to sound suspiciously like Leahy's talk about how many airlines are interested in the A380. It amounts to calling them up and asking if they've heard of it and then counting that as interest.

Remember that the B747 is already in service and is a proven aircraft, while the A380 isnt a proven aircraft yet. More Customers will be more willing to order a proven aircraft compared to the A380, but that can't be said about the B787 and A350 obviously.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12011 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 8):

Number one being defininately Lufthansa -since we all know that they stated more than once that they are very interested.
Since there are no other huge airlines left in Europe that have the need for a A380/747 sized plane I would guess BA, VS and AF/KLM.
I doubt that IB will go for the 747-8 - but would not rule that out completely.

LH - lots and lots of rumors that LH is interested in both the pax and cargo versions.

BA - its been discussed here many many times, BA is a possible candidate for the 748; they are a huge 744 operator, they have not ordered the 773ER, they have not ordered the A380, thus, they are still considering all of the options in the large aircraft segment, and that includes the 748i.

IB - you never know what is going to happen......being that IB operated 741s a 742s for years, and that IB has leased in 743/744 capacity, and considering that IB needs a large capacity airplane to fly certain routes from Madrid to South America.......we could see a small A380 or 748i order from IB; the 748i is probably the better sized aircraft for IB's needs; we dont know, thats what makes all of this so much fun!

AF/KL - dont think that its going to happen......with AF being a big 773ER operator and KL announcing that it too will be getting the 773ER, and with AF having the A380 on order for the highest capacity routes, I dont see the need for the 748i in the fleet.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12000 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 9):
More Customers will be more willing to order a proven aircraft compared to the A380

I'm not so sure of that.
The 747 design is "proven", but old. More of that, it doesn't play in the exact same category than the A380.

However, it's likely that some airlines will stay with the 747 and will not even consider the A380, especially the japanese ones.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11956 times:

I found a full article based on the research excerpt posted above if anyone had the same problem I had.

Boeing Sees Interest in 747-8 From 10 Asian, European Airlines



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7074 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11931 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
LH - lots and lots of rumors that LH is interested in both the pax and cargo versions.

There are several statments by LH and LH Cargo officials sayins that they are seriously considering the 747-8 so I would call it rumors anymore.
At the moment they are checking two different options:
a) Order of the 747-8 as a 747-430 replacement and future growth
b) No direct 747 replacement and therefore order of additional A346 and A380.
Instead of the A346 the 777-300 is also being considered again, but has the
slightest chance of these options.

I am seriously hoping for the option a) - It is about time that LH has to order new Boeing aircrafts and the 747 is one aircraft that is deeply connected with LH for me.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
BA - its been discussed here many many times, BA is a possible candidate for the 748; they are a huge 744 operator, they have not ordered the 773ER, they have not ordered the A380, thus, they are still considering all of the options in the large aircraft segment, and that includes the 748i.

Agreed, the only reason why I don´t see BA ordering the 747-8 soon is that they are very reluctant of being a launch customer.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
IB - you never know what is going to happen......being that IB operated 741s a 742s for years, and that IB has leased in 743/744 capacity, and considering that IB needs a large capacity airplane to fly certain routes from Madrid to South America.......we could see a small A380 or 748i order from IB; the 748i is probably the better sized aircraft for IB's needs; we dont know, thats what makes all of this so much fun!

Agreed, again. That is why I said I would not rule out IB completely. From the outside it looks that the 748i is the better sized aircraft but who knows maybe they have enough capacity on their South America routes that they can fill a A380.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7074 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11909 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
LH - lots and lots of rumors that LH is interested in both the pax and cargo versions.



Quoting from Bloomberg:

Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's second-largest airline, is interested in both passenger and freight versions of the 747-8, Boeing Germany President Horst Teltschik said on March 9. The Cologne, Germany-based carrier has 30 Boeing 747-400s, according to its Web site.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11835 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
Agreed, the only reason why I don´t see BA ordering the 747-8 soon is that they are very reluctant of being a launch customer

Yep. And since slots aren't disappearing as quickly as for, say, the 787, BA can afford to wait. I think BA are almost certain to order the 747-8i - they themsleves pressured Boeing into producing the thing.


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2300 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11835 times:

Quote:
``And probably three or four in Europe,'' he said

The article confirms that LH is one of them, so that leaves two or three which are unaccounted for. People here have suggested BA, AF, IB and VS. I definitely agree about BA. But are there any European cargo operators which could be included in this count of "three or four," (other than Cargolux)?

Quote:
``We see five or six airlines in Asia that are interested in both the passenger and freighter versions of the airplanes,''

My guess:

SQ
CX
JL
CA
CI
BR

Since he said "Asia," could this mean that QF has not shown any interest, or does he include Australia into Asia?



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7074 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11756 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 16):
My guess:

SQ
CX
JL
CA
CI
BR

My guess is that Jet Airways from India is one of the five mentioned airlines from Asia. Apart from that I agree on CX and SQ.
I don´t see JL being one of the first airline to order, I think they will go for more 777-300ERs which works perfect for them.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3215 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11687 times:

NZ's CEO, Rob Fyfe has already gone public with the airline's interest in the 748 as a potential replacement for the 744 (along with the 773ER).

By the time the choice comes around, the A380 will also be a proven entity and may make the short-list, particularly if Rob's aggressive growth plans for the airline are anywhere near on track.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Of course BA wanted Boeing to launch the 748i, without it BA would have been forced to buy the A380, now they can play the 2 manufacturers off!


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11578 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
And probably three or four in Europe

Quite a vague statement, especially for their head of marketing. I can think of only two that have expressed interest, BA & LH.

Quoting Abba (Reply 5):
Showing interest is one thing - buying an entirely different matter.

This does surprise me. If only 10 airlines are 'showing interest', what are the sales outlooks of this jet. It is reasonable to presume that at best, only half of airlines that show interest in an aircraft actually end up buying it.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11565 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 9):
Customers will be more willing to order a proven aircraft compared to the A380

But none have ordered it.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11539 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):

Quite a vague statement, especially for their head of marketing. I can think of only two that have expressed interest, BA & LH.

How could you possibilty know how many airlines have expressed interest to Boeing concerning the 748i?

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
This does surprise me. If only 10 airlines are 'showing interest', what are the sales outlooks of this jet. It is reasonable to presume that at best, only half of airlines that show interest in an aircraft actually end up buying it.

It all depends on what showing interest means.......my guess is that the 10 airlines mentioned are some type of serious talks with Boeing concerning the type, not airlines that simply reviewed the stats for the 748i.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11489 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 22):
How could you possibilty know how many airlines have expressed interest to Boeing concerning the 748i?

When did I say that I did know all the airlines showing interest? I never said that BA & LH were the only ones, just that that I cant think of any others in europe.

[Edited 2006-05-24 13:51:05]

User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4165 posts, RR: 90
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11205 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
And probably three or four in Europe

Quite a vague statement, especially for their head of marketing.

Bearing in mind he may well be limited as to what he can say in the Public Domain at this point in time.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
This does surprise me. If only 10 airlines are 'showing interest', what are the sales outlooks of this jet. It is reasonable to presume that at best, only half of airlines that show interest in an aircraft actually end up buying it.

We need to refer to the original article and the context in which these comments were made. Boeing in the past have stated they are talking to almost every 744 Operator about either the B748i or B748F. That meant PAX and F operators which totalled about 20 plus carriers. That does not include 9W whom seem to favour the model nor AirNZ which have publicly stated they would have an interest in the 748i if launched either.

In this case though the wording appears to be in specific reference to carriers which are thinking of ordering both the 748i and 748F. From the article

``We see five or six airlines in Asia that are interested in both the passenger and freighter versions of the airplanes,'' Randy Tinseth, head of sales, marketing and in-service support for the 747 program, said in an interview in Hong Kong today.

``And probably three or four in Europe,'' he said, without identifying potential customers.


Whether they all actually order them is an entirley different question though and it could all be in the wording. That said, I saw the interview this story was written from and the article has missed some key statements from Mr Tinseth.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 16):
But are there any European cargo operators which could be included in this count of "three or four,"

Even though they have gone with the 772F to date Avion Group may have an interest.

Quoting Abba (Reply 5):
Showing interest is one thing - buying an entirely different matter. I see no major potential for the 748 in Asia save for cargo

Respectfully, my opinion differs to yours. Here we are 6-7 months into a 20 year program and Asia operate some of the largest fleets of 747s. I believe that over that time horizon Boeing may well sell more than enough of both models to recoup their investment. As Dutchjet stated, many of these are very satisfied with their current product and may well upgrade to the 747-8.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
25 RayChuang : These airlines are likely candidates for the 787-8I: British Airways--replace older 747-400's. Japan Airlines--replace older 747-400's and 747 Classic
26 DeltaDC9 : I see wishfull thinking form an Airbus cheerleader Duh Exactly, its not like these are used cars bought on a test drive on Saturday afternoon. The sh
27 Post contains images SA7700 : The point being?? IIRC the B737 entered service in 1968 (even older than the 747 which entered service in 1970), yet they (737's) still sell like hot
28 Lfutia : could AI be possibly interested in the 748? Leo
29 AirFrnt : They have been quite explicit about wanting to downsize their largest birds to something 777 size rather then 747 size.
30 Stitch : And that seems to be the crux. SQ's internal models on A388 performance showed the A388 was payload affected westbound with high winds, which convinc
31 Jacobin777 : I think BA will go for the 748, it fits in their cautious fleet planning paradigm....it will add incremental amount of seats and allow them much more
32 DfwRevolution : Yes, Air India has said they will evaluate both the A388 and 748I over the next year as well as additional 777/787. However, don't expect any order b
33 DistantHorizon : So much interest on the bird... But will someone ever buy the damn thing?... (I mean, the passenger version, naturally). I guess that it will not happ
34 PolymerPlane : Is it that easy to commit billions of dollars project? No. Just be patient. The plane has not been around for more than 1 year. Give it another year
35 Stitch : More likely not until the A380 has a year or two of revenue service under her girdle and the data is used to refine the models and extrapolate suffic
36 Post contains images LifelinerOne : You know, I think this statement is some non-news. Ofcourse airlines are interested in new planes. Five or six, three or four are relatively low numb
37 Gr8Circle : I certainly hope so....more from an emotional point of view as AI has been a steady 747 operator for the last 35 years.... The Chairman of AI recentl
38 ER757 : I agree with you if you are talking about the pax version, but I think AF might at some point order the freighter version. They have a sizable 744-F
39 DfwRevolution : Not only the 744F but the 744ERF as well. AF is also an early 777F customer, so it will be interesting to see what type of new build freighter they w
40 Aerofan : Well wouldn't this 747-8 work better for VS than an A380?
41 Stitch : Considering the dimensions of the Upper Suite and VS' use of lounge areas, I expect the A380's greater and wider floorspace is a better fit for them.
42 Dutchjet : Virgin does not seem to think so, they were a rather early customer for the A380 and are committed to the type. The A380 does make sense on Virgin's
43 DAYflyer : Not much to the article except PR fluff. If there is 10 interested cutomers, I would think 2-3 perhaps for pax version at most right now. Besides, int
44 Post contains images Glideslope : Sit back and watch my friend.
45 Post contains images AirRyan : Look for AA to order some 748's to counter QF's own 748 purchase and subsequent routes into DFW! (Someone has to be running a bet right now for the fi
46 Kiwiandrew : why would they want to counter their own alliance partner . ( Yes , I know that it does happen in a lot of markets - but lets face it - if US-Austral
47 Stirling : Wasn't the 747-8 supposed to have a stretched upper deck as well? I've been all over the Boeing website and cannot find any mention of it at all, only
48 Nirvarma : How many A380s have been ordered since the 748 was officially launched?
49 Aerofan : Quoting Dutchjet 'Virgin does not seem to think so, they were a rather early customer for the A380 and are committed to the type. The A380 does make s
50 Post contains links DfwRevolution : Yes... the stretch is in two bands, one of which includes the upper deck http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/7478brochure.pdf (see page 5
51 Stitch : It is unlikely Boeing will build a 748D model, as NH and JL have both selected the 777-300A for intra-Japan operations and have retired their 747SR a
52 Columba : About the same number as 748Is have been ordered - so what is the point of that question ? Before buying an aircraft of that sizes you must consider
53 UAL777UK : I think theres more chance of Concorde flying for AA than them ordering the 748i. Of the US legacies look for UA or NW to place an order to replace t
54 Columba : At least UA has been in talks about it..............
55 UAL777UK : On the basis that UA surprised most people with the announcement yesterday on the new route to Kuwait, I would not be surprised on UA ordering the 74
56 DeltaDC9 : It does, the plug in front of the wings includes the upper deck. Dont bet money you need on that.
57 Dutchjet : Everything that you say is true......nonetheless, Virgin did sign contracts to purchase the A380 and therefore are committed to the type. There is no
58 Abba : Add to this that the situation is now such for a potential buyer, that the days of "early bird" discounts have gone and the plane has yet to prove it
59 DeltaDC9 : UPS signed a contract for dozens of A-300's, and got out of it by changing planes. Same is possible here. See above. And that is not the only way. Br
60 Post contains images RayChuang : A couple of comments: 1. I'm not sure if JL really wants to downsize from the 747-400. The routes from NRT to JFK, LAX, SFO, HNL, SYD, HKG, SIN, and L
61 DeltaDC9 : Which makes sense, because there are fewer reasons to buy big plane when you consider the other options airlines now have, and the demand for frequen
62 Dutchjet : Unless Virgin is going to sign up for 50 A346s.....I dont see this happening. I also find Branson annoying, and am underwhelmed with the managment of
63 DeltaDC9 : I am convinced Branson can get out of this deal better than most could. What makes me doubt the deal will go exactly as planned? The combination of w
64 Pmg1704 : Agreed, show me the money.
65 Columba : For me Virgin is one airline that will stick to the A380 no matter what. Simply because Branson needs to say we fly the biggest bird on the market. V
66 EI321 : Branson did attempt to but BAs concordes when they announced retirement
67 Jacobin777 : I think he wanted to pay a quid for each and he was told to "bugger off"....
68 StarGoldLHR : BA's 747's were bought during the loads a money periods of government ownership and privatisation period back in the late 1980's earl 1990's. Now BA i
69 Aerofan : Well considering that was what BA paid for em or was it even less than that - seems like a fair deal to me. perhaps if he had factored in inflation ma
70 Abba : In particular to BA it seems... Abba
71 Post contains images LifelinerOne : If I recall correctly, Virgin delayed their A380's because their designteams weren't ready to deliver their super-duper cabin interiours on time. If
72 Dutchjet : AC is dumping their longhaul Airbus fleet, but that is a very different story. AC did accept delivery of most of its ordered A340 fleet (three A346s
73 Stitch : I do know that the delay in getting LAX A380-ready was one of the reasons for VS asking for delayed deliveries of their birds. That being said, with
74 Aerofan : OK I guess we will have to wait and see how it plays out. I could see them using this aircraft on their LHR/HKG routing. But that's about it.
75 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Ah, thank you Stitch! I knew there was a second reason next to the cabin interiors. I now remember the LAX-story. Maybe this will stop the rumours ab
76 Post contains images Bmacleod : Something tells me that LH will end up picking option B. Hope I'm wrong on this one.... BA with their strong Boeing loyalities will most definitely o
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