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Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic  
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Hello Everyone,

It came to my attention that Atlas Air is planning to get rid of its 747classics very soon.

Presently the Atlas/Polar-Group operates roughly 20 747classics (mostly on own business, some wet-leased to other carriers).

As far as I can see there is no chance for modern replacements.

There are just a few 747-400s out in the desert that might be converted but which can not replace older 747s in the near future.

Is the Atlas/Polar-Group down-sizing or are there any indications that the management tries to replace this capacity in the mid-run or maybe with other types?

Fleet of Atlas Air
Fleet of Polar Air Cargo

Best Regards

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Going theory/rumor is that Polar is being set up for as an aquisition target, possibly by UA. That would take care of the capacity issues...


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlineRemcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

The word "Classic" sounds much better than the word "old" doesn't it?

I have a 'classic' 1991 Nissian Pickup truck with 230,000 miles on it.


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

No it's not downsizing. When 2 companies merge they trim out the fat, it's standard practice. A few pilots(not for long) and planes will be removed. I think they plan on being an all 744 fleet soon. They expect to start buying 744s in 2007. It looks like Polar will take the hit more than Atlas.

User currently offlineWaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

That's actually too bad from a spotter's point of view, I always enjoyed seeing the frequent 742's flown by both carriers into MIA, it seems there was always at least one parked next to Le Jeune rd., across the runway from the AA hangar.

User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Saw some Polar 747's being overhauled in SAT last year. They weren't 744's if IIRC.


Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Atlas/Polar's plan is to operate a 747-400 fleet. The "Classic" freighters will be returned to lessors or parked within several years. I would assume that in the -200Fs place, 400BCFs would be purchased. You could also see Atlas purchase second hand 747-400Fs from carriers that are switching over to the 747-8F.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3824 times:

Has Atlas ordered any new a/c recently? I heard (and this is a rumor from a reliable source but I cannot confirm it) that Atlas is/was considering a 777-200LR Frighter order. Can anybody confirm this?


You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

Well...are they or are they not getting the 777-200LRF?


You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 8):
Well...are they or are they not getting the 777-200LRF?

They aren't... and Boeing has a dedicated web page to answering such questions:

User Defined Search

Boeing 777F customers:

Air Canada - 2
Air France - 5
Avion Group - 8
Emirates - 8

Total - 23


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4135 posts, RR: 90
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3590 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
Quoting Cha747 (Reply 8):
Well...are they or are they not getting the 777-200LRF?

They aren't... and Boeing has a dedicated web page to answering such questions:

But it doesn't answer such questions in their entirity in every instance.

To whom are the Avion Group leasing their 772Fs to then? No carrier has yet been named at this point in time so there are 8 available via a leasing company which may or may not end up at Atlas.

As to Atlas this site may well be able to provide an indication as to what they intend to replace their 747 Classic's with.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9768 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting Viasa (Thread starter):
Presently the Atlas/Polar-Group operates roughly 20 747classics (mostly on own business, some wet-leased to other carriers)

The Atlas/Polar mainly operates on behalf of other airlines, so no, they are not operated on own business. Atlas is the largest ACMI cargo airline of the world. Only Polar flies on their own, but almost all Atlas aircraft are operated on behalf of other airlines as they are specialised in ACMI leases. The biggest contract being for the U.S. military.

There already was a thread about this:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ion/read.main/2737240/6/#ID2737240

My reaction here was:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 4):
Polar and Atlas used to fly 747-200s into YHZ to pick up seafood but stopped in 2005 I guess when Icelandic started seafood operations.

I guess now that 747-200s are parked and pilots are laid off, I won't be seeing Polar or Atlas back in YHZ anytime soon.

True, I used to work for PO in AMS. During my time as a customer service/operations agent at PO, we did have scheduled flights from Canada to AMS via Scandanavia to accomodate the popular demand for salmon to Asia. These flights were later dropped due to increased competition in that region and SK Cargo also reported to start similar flights that time using 5Y wet-leased aircraft. This eventually never materialised as far as I know.

Quoting N754PR (Reply 5):
As the two are the same company it should be no problem for them to opeate a 5Y 744F when the need it.

Also true. We used to "lease" aircraft from 5Y whenever needed. As PO is owned by 5Y they can swap aircraft if the need arises even though this appeared to be difficult some times. One problem between these two companies is that they have the same owner (Atlas Inc.) but both companies have very different strategies. They are competitors to each other, which might sound strange but it isn't. 5Y's business strategy is bases on ACMI leases to other cargo airlines. These cargo airlines are their customers while these same customers are actually competitors to PO who operates in the same markets, particularly in Asia.

As for PO getting rid of their Classic 747 fleets, that also doesn't surprise me. When I worked the PO flights in AMS, we had technical problems on a regular basis. Some of these aircraft were just plagued with technical problems on a constant basis. 5Y and eventually PO will have to start looking at 744 cargo conversions as this will be the next step in the cargo industry in my opinion. The 747 Classic just has had its life, even as a cargo aircraft it is just not economical, especially with the increasingly higher fuel prices. More competitors are using modern equipment such as the 744F and 744ERF and even MD11F aircraft. These aircraft are much more fuel efficient.

Good luck to PO, I sure miss working for them.

Regards,

A388


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 3):
They expect to start buying 744s in 2007.

So, could Atlas/Polar also order some B-747-800F and/or B-777-200LRF? Or will they buy up some pax B-747-400s and BCF them?


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9768 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
So, could Atlas/Polar also order some B-747-800F and/or B-777-200LRF? Or will they buy up some pax B-747-400s and BCF them?

I think the latter is most likely as Atlas/PO are not that keen on buying newly built aircraft that soon. They will most likely go for conversions.

A388


User currently offlineRC135U From United States of America, joined May 2005, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Quoting Remcor (Reply 2):
I have a 'classic' 1991 Nissian Pickup truck with 230,000 miles on it.

Nah...a real Nissan "classic" would have to be a Datsun.  Wink


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