Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
A380 As Head Of State Aircraft  
User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 776 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12141 times:

I know some have speculated about this but does anybody have any real evidence of any countries considering the A380 as an official air transport for their Heads of State?

I would not put it past China right now to order one for their PM in the next several years but what about Russia, France, maybe India? I know the U.S. would not but any insights would be great. Also, if some would order it would they install the level of sophistiation on theirs as is on USAF-1?

As a similar sidenote what are some of the offical a/c of your country or interesting a/c or liveries of some Head of State a/c?

Thanks


GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1338 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12129 times:

I think it may be possible. But I think that some country's tax payers and voters may balk at the idea - it would be a very ostentatious a/c to have, compared to, say, a 777 or an A350/A330. Not sure if the cost would be justified tbh. But don't rule it out for some....

User currently offlineBoeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12091 times:

You have to ask yourself which ruler would require a plane initally built for 555!!!

George W wouldnt go for that as America's government and military aircraft are generally Boeing-loyal.

Canada wouldnt really benefit from the 380 seeing as our leader (Mr. Harper) does not travel extensivel (mostly domestic travel)

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 



"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12077 times:

An oil rich, Middle East country's head of state maybe.


PHX based
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12059 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Britain and France didn't buy Concordes for their Heads of State and Heads of Government to use, even though it was the most prestigious air transport available, so I tend to think they won't buy A380s for that reason.  

The same could apply to China and India, as well, since they didn't want the 747 and it was a status symbol, in itself.

The US went to the 747 more for the space needs then the "wow" factor, since the 747 had been in military service since the mid-1970's (the E4 NEACP) and they could have ordered the VC-25 then.

As for sophistication, it's all about the electronics, and Europe knows their stuff there. It may not be to the raw sophistication of some of the DoD's stuff, but it would still be "state of the art".

This is not to say some of the rumored A380CJ customers will not be Heads of State of Arabic shiekdoms, caliphs, emirates, and kingdoms, of course. And they'll probably have the best commercial equipment money can buy.  

That being said, I would not be surprised if Heads of State and Heads of Government of nations whom have flag carriers who operate the A380 would not mind using them on occasion.

[Edited 2006-05-26 21:07:12]

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12059 times:

I'm not sure any A-380s would be sold as a head of state aircraft. But, I wouldn't put it past some Middle East Sultans, Kings, etc. to buy one for their personal travel. Would that qualify as a head of state airplane? Doesn't an Emire somewhere have an A-340-200 somewhere? And some others have B-747-400/-SP, etc?

User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3959 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12042 times:

Russia is not going to buy a foreign aircraft for this for the same reason as the USA.

The French President used to fly on an Air France Concorde sometimes. I don't know what he travels on now, but I don't think ordering such a ridiculously large aircraft for VIP transport would be acceptable in France or most other countries, including India (pun against Air Force One intended).

I think you might expect VIP A380s to be orderd by some oil-rich dictatorships though.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong


Answering your other question for my country, it uses this indigenous product as a VIP aircraft for both the government and the Royal House. This is named the House of Orange, hence the colour scheme.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong


Can't resist plugging this, sorry - added to the database minutes ago. Just one member of the Saudi fleet of VIP widebodies.

Peter

[Edited 2006-05-26 21:05:02]

[Edited 2006-05-26 21:05:51]


The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineKatekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 704 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12021 times:

France and its megalomaniac president, Mr. Chirac, are probably the only candidates in the short term.

Once the A380 starts regular service with Lufthansa and, if they ever buy it, British Airways, it is likely that the German and British Heads of State will fly on them.


User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11964 times:

Most heads of state are going the other extreme with the BBJ and ACJ (6000 mile range, small interior). Clearly what they want is the non-stop range - it is complicated for heads of state to have to make intermediate tech stops.

I think currently the ultimate head of state plane would be the 772LR, since you can get almost anywhere non-stop. It would be too small perhaps only for the US with the large SS and press contingent - perhaps a 773ER with an additional fuel tank special order there would be the ticket.

A380 is too much metal not enough range and my guess is it would present an easier target for shoulder-fired AA missiles (but I am just speculating, it could be more survivable to those also).



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1338 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11964 times:

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 7):
Once the A380 starts regular service with Lufthansa and, if they ever buy it, British Airways, it is likely that the German and British Heads of State will fly on them.

Well, BA has plenty of 744s, but Blair usually uses a 777 (though a 744 has been used on occasion). So I guess it all depends. It is possible though. There has been talk of a dedicated a/c for the British head of state, although I really doubt that IF it did come about they would use an A380.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11892 times:

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 7):
Once the A380 starts regular service with Lufthansa and, if they ever buy it, British Airways, it is likely that the German and British Heads of State will fly on them.

Why should a German Chancellor or president use a Lufthansa A380 when she/he can use the VIP Luftwaffe A310? And I'm sure nobody in their right mind in Germany would want to replace the A310 with something so big.

pelican


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11801 times:

Quoting Stitch:

Quote:
Britain and France didn't buy Concordes for their Heads of State and Heads of Government to use, even though it was the most prestigious air transport available, so I tend to think they won't buy A380s for that reason.

The same could apply to China and India, as well, since they didn't want the 747 and it was a status symbol, in itself.

Unfortunately, at the time the Concorde was coming out the governemnts of France and Britain could not afford much of anything let alone a Concorde, besides it would have been much too impractical as an official transport a/c.

But my original thought on the subject was China, a government that wants to show to the world that it is indeed an international player and is demanding more and more respect. That being said, it also is a government that still dictates much of the Chinese peoples lives and from my experience most Chinese people feel that the government has let them flourish. Thus, I personally do not think the people of China would mind the purchase of an A380 but would rather see it as a prestigious and monumental step toward being respected as a world power.

As far as England, France, & Germany - the assumption that the people would be up in arms about it - yeah, probably right. India - maybe, but unlikely. I really feel like we may see China order one in the next 5-8 years.
Just my .02¢



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4106 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11753 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 8):
I think currently the ultimate head of state plane would be the 772LR, since you can get almost anywhere non-stop. It would be too small perhaps only for the US with the large SS and press contingent - perhaps a 773ER with an additional fuel tank special order there would be the ticket.

I think the current 742s used as Air Force 1 may have space for the press corp, but lack the ability to land at some airports. Aerial refueling helps extend the range, but that said a 777-300ER with an extra tank giving it 772LR range and aerial refueling capability would be the best possible successor to the 742s currently being used now since 1989 for the President of the United States.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11737 times:

An A380 based head of state aircraft would only be able to go to a relatively few number of airports because of it's size. If the Australian's a complaining that AF1 cracked their runway last year, can you imagine what would happen if the 380 came to town?

User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1185 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11719 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
As a similar sidenote what are some of the offical a/c of your country or interesting a/c or liveries of some Head of State a/c?

This is an interesting story about a head of state. In the 90s, Alberto Fujimori, then president of Peru, ordered a 737 direct from Boeing because he felt that the head of a country should travel safely in modern aircraft. The peruvian air force has a depleting fleet of old aircraft.
Ironically, when he abandoned power, he went on a tour of asian countries and, after landing in Japan as an official visitor on official business, he never left.

FLY2LIM

[Edited 2006-05-26 22:43:59]


Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineA380CGN From Germany, joined May 2006, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
This is not to say some of the rumored A380CJ customers will not be Heads of State of Arabic shiekdoms, caliphs, emirates, and kingdoms, of course. And they'll probably have the best commercial equipment money can buy.

I heard rumors somewhere that (at least) one of Emirates' 43 A380 shall be taken aside and used for their sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum. I think that could be possible and it would explain that, to my eyes, strange number of 43 orders.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
I'm not sure any A-380s would be sold as a head of state aircraft. But, I wouldn't put it past some Middle East Sultans, Kings, etc. to buy one for their personal travel. Would that qualify as a head of state airplane? Doesn't an Emire somewhere have an A-340-200 somewhere? And some others have B-747-400/-SP, etc?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Helmut Bierbaum



Those A340 belong to the sultan of Brunei's family.
BTW a guy at Lufthansa Technik in HAM told us during a guide through the hangars that the white one belongs to the sultan's son. The sultan had given it to his son for his 18th birthday, he said, but he did not use it and so this big bird is standing there unused and they have to lift it up and turn the wheels once in a while...


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 7):
France and its megalomaniac president, Mr. Chirac, are probably the only candidates in the short term.

Fortunately he won't be long enough president to get a A 380.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11650 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 11):
But my original thought on the subject was China, a government that wants to show to the world that it is indeed an international player and is demanding more and more respect...Thus, I personally do not think the people of China would mind the purchase of an A380 but would rather see it as a prestigious and monumental step toward being respected as a world power.

Yet they never bought a 747, which also would have been a "prestigious and monumental step" in the 1970s through 1990s. So while I could see the President using one of China Southern's A380s, I don't see a true PRC-branded A388 being purchased.

Quoting Pope (Reply 13):
An A380 based head of state aircraft would only be able to go to a relatively few number of airports because of it's size. If the Australian's a complaining that AF1 cracked their runway last year, can you imagine what would happen if the 380 came to town?

I imagine a Head of State has access to their hosting country's military airfields, which should be plenty capable of landing, parking, and dispatching an A380. Plus, in the interests of security, a military airfield might be the preferred location to use.


User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11614 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 13):
An A380 based head of state aircraft would only be able to go to a relatively few number of airports because of it's size. If the Australian's a complaining that AF1 cracked their runway last year, can you imagine what would happen if the 380 came to town?

Weight is not the issue, especially as a government delegation would not travel with 555 people and all their overweight bags.
Also, it has been known for a while that any 747-capable airporta can handle the 380 too. The question of an airport being ready or not for commercial service with the 380 is about baggage and pax handling, catering capabilities and the likes. The footprint (weight per wheel) is, afaik, even lower than on the 747 as the weight is distributed to more wheels. Runway length is no issue if the 747 can land and especially take off. Taxiways per se are not a problem either, some turns might be too tight though...

If indeed the 747 cracked the runway, then the 380 should not land there, but the 747 shouldn't either.



Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offline787engineer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 572 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11577 times:

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 2):
George W wouldnt go for that as America's government and military aircraft are generally Boeing-loyal.

Boeing-loyal, not to mention who knows what kind of bugs or other devices might be planted on the plane. Probably why the US and Russia would never buy foreign built airplanes for their presidents. I doubt any western countries would use a A380 for their head of state simply because of the limited number of airports that the plane can land. I think one of the middle eastern countries or China might do it since 1) they probably won't mind flying with the plane half full (I mean seriously, other the US president, how members of the press do you expect to travel with the president, and the more press the longer it takes to have them all go through security) 2) they're willing to spend the extra $$ for an A380 since they value their "status symbols" and 3) they're probably willing to buy two planes for the head of state in the case they need to travel to smaller airports.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13140 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

I doubt an A-380 will be a 'head of state' aircraft for any one except as leased from a national airline. The huge size may limit it's use at some important airports and it wouldn't look good to the people. As to China, why should they operate something other than Boeings as big a/c as they already have many of them, and one of the biggest customers of 747's.
I also doubt that the top Air Force 1 aircraft will be a 777, due to the security and safety edge from 4 engines. Yes, I know 757's are sometimes used by the President for access to some cities due to limited airport space.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4106 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 23 hours ago) and read 11353 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 20):
I also doubt that the top Air Force 1 aircraft will be a 777, due to the security and safety edge from 4 engines. Yes, I know 757's are sometimes used by the President for access to some cities due to limited airport space.

ETOPS makes needing 4 engines moot, even for a Presidential aircraft. They often send AF1 on more secure routes when going around the globe anyhow, and rarely anywhere they can't land within three hours as I understand it. The 777 is just as secure as the 742s currently in use.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 22 hours ago) and read 11051 times:

I think the ONLY countries who will go for a VIP A380 are kingdoms, and emirates etc. Other democratic head of states will not want to put them such a political disadvantage. Us is an exception as it is handled by the secret service, and the bulk needed (secure comms, defensive/offensive electronics, press corps, etc).

Having said that, B777 would be such an ideal candidate as opposed to B747.

It would be great for Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer (and they can afford from their own purse strings) to buy it, and use it as a flying demo lab for the MS products, SAP integration (with Duet) and other cool and nifty things. Besides, they can write it off as a business expense!!!!!!


User currently offlineAmerican762 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

Your best bet would be in the Middle East obviously. It all depends on if flag carriers of specific countries are flying the A380. If the countries Flag Carrier(s) are not flying it, it would be highly unlikely that the country would pay the extra fees to support only one or two of the type. A country that has ordered significant numbers of the 380 such as with Singapore and Emirates, it is feasible.


Pan Am has a place of its' own. You call it the world, we call it home.
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 18):
If indeed the 747 cracked the runway

No 'if' about it - the bill was $A28.5M.  Smile

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,19238503-23349,00.html

Security could be an important consideration. VIPs are much safer in the air than on the ground - therefore it's important that, when they travel, they land as close as possible to their destination. Therefore neither A380s nor 747s are ideal VIP transport, something smaller and handier would reduce the overall risk.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
25 Joni : I doubt any democratic government would dare even propose that an A380 would be bought as VVIP transport. For most countries, a Dassault Falcon or A32
26 Post contains images Grimey : Bertie should get an A380 He can have a bar on the lower deck that only serves Bass and on the upper deck he can store all his cosmetics Sure if he ge
27 Manni : Just to add to the list of countrys that have their dedicated 747's for VIP transport. Japan has 2 744's. It is most likely not going to happen, but a
28 NoUFO : The French government flies A310 and A319s, if one government is keen on "representative" aircraft, it is certainly not the French. Nonsense.
29 DEVILFISH : As China still has the much publicized 767 and also uses 747 airliner from Air China regularly ( recent trips to U.S. and Middle East), it is unlikel
30 TomTurner : Isn't The French Govt upgrading to an A340? Tom
31 KLMCedric : Very particular choice of words there? Care too enlighten us with arguments and thoughts about this statement, or is that just something you felt lik
32 Knoxibus : State of Qatar, that's why they only bough two of them, but since their A330 and A340-500 got quite delayed, I guess that's hy they pushed the deliver
33 VV701 : Yes. Along with Brunei. With the current oil price they could all afford several! They could shuttle the Sheiks and all their wives on shopping exped
34 HBJZA : The only thing I know is that GVA will make the necessary changes to welcome the A380. And as everybody knows, GVA management is totally aware that th
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Qatar Head Of State Trip posted Sat May 10 2003 16:58:39 by Alpha
Good News, -- John Magaw Ousted As Head Of TSA posted Fri Jul 19 2002 12:44:14 by L-188
Airbus Replaces Head Of A380 Program posted Mon Sep 4 2006 13:05:23 by Tootallsd
Heads Of State And Their Aircraft posted Sat Nov 20 2004 17:09:38 by Derico
Airline/Aircraft Museums Or As Part Of Museums posted Tue Apr 13 2004 03:34:48 by Ltbewr
Photos Of Aircraft That Carry Heads Of State. posted Tue Mar 30 2004 20:08:13 by Vio
Designation Of An Aircraft As "Heavy" posted Fri Mar 5 2004 19:46:41 by RareBear
A380 On Catia 5 From 16th Aircraft posted Sat Nov 25 2006 00:40:57 by Lightsaber
How To Find Owner/lessor Of An Aircraft? posted Wed Nov 15 2006 00:30:08 by Australia1
If You Could Meet The Head Of Technical Operations posted Thu Nov 9 2006 05:06:50 by HPAEAA
Head Of State Aircraft posted Wed May 23 2007 17:34:24 by RickYHM
LatAm & Caribbean Head Of State Transports In CUN posted Sat Feb 20 2010 11:34:12 by MayaviaERJ190
First Head Of State To Cross The Atlantic posted Sat Sep 12 2009 10:40:29 by UAEflyer
Arabian Head Of State Orders An A 380 posted Sun Feb 25 2007 22:17:05 by Mortyman
Qatar Head Of State Trip posted Sat May 10 2003 16:58:39 by Alpha
Good News, -- John Magaw Ousted As Head Of TSA posted Fri Jul 19 2002 12:44:14 by L-188
Airbus Replaces Head Of A380 Program posted Mon Sep 4 2006 13:05:23 by Tootallsd
Heads Of State And Their Aircraft posted Sat Nov 20 2004 17:09:38 by Derico
Airline/Aircraft Museums Or As Part Of Museums posted Tue Apr 13 2004 03:34:48 by Ltbewr