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Official: AA Drops SJC-NRT Oct 28.  
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2080 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8161 times:

http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjo...006/05/22/daily93.html?jst=b_ln_hl


John@SFO
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8119 times:

WOW. I had a feeling that was coming, but it is sad to see. I was under the impression that all our NRT flying was profitable.

Soooo now the big question is what is AA going to do with the 777 and the landing slot in NRT.

Will the 777 be used for new NRT service from another gaiteway?

or

Will AA use the NRT slot for 767 service from HNL and use the 777 for another market? HKG? LHR?

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8119 times:

Wouldn't you do the same? After all, if you as AA run "between eight and 10 daily flights between Los Angeles and Tokyo", according to the article, why would you waste a plane from SJC  Wink ?

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8102 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2):
After all, if you as AA run "between eight and 10 daily flights between Los Angeles and Tokyo", according to the article,

No wonder the route loses so much money.  Smile



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineAA 777 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 808 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8102 times:
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From AA's Internal site.

---FOCUS ON PROFITABILITY CONTINUES WITH HALT OF SJC-NRT ROUTE THIS FALL---
As part of the efforts to return to profitability, American will discontinue flying between San Jose, Calif. and Tokyo Narita Airport, on Oct. 28, 2006. Customers can still fly American to Tokyo Narita through other U.S. gateways, which include Los Angeles, DFW, Chicago O'Hare and New York's JFK. "This was a very difficult business decision," said Dan Garton, Executive Vice President - Marketing. "The route has been unprofitable for some time, a situation made even worse by recent spikes in the cost of jet fuel." American's 2005 jet fuel costs increased 42 percent year over year - a one-year increase of nearly $1.7 billion. That trend has continued so far in 2006.



CRJ-700 FO
User currently offlineRIPCORDD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1171 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8073 times:

I would be surprised if they started a 2nd daily ord-nrt flight a lot of times they leave freight behind and a lot of it too. This flight is always maxed out with freight in and out and i would be surprised if they broke even or made a profit just hauling the freight and no pax.

User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2092 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8051 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2):
"between eight and 10 daily flights between Los Angeles and Tokyo"

I find it hard to believe that a significant number of people fly LAX-ORD-NRT or LAX-DFW-NRT. AA has only one flight and a codeshare on JAL. If you counted all of the possible routings from LAX-NRT on UA or NW, there would be far more than AA's 10 and most are meaningless since the flight would be longer and more expensive.

It appears that AA has just about given up on SJC.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8041 times:

I don't know the numbers but with 8 dailies from LAX-NRT alone . . . how much overcapacity do the US airlines have going to Tokyo?

User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8025 times:

8- 10 flights day?? Actually this is how they count at AA

LA - NRT
LA - SFO (on a Mad Dog 80) - NRT
LA -ORD - NRT
LA - DFW - NRT

Sad for the spotters at SJC, but its not the end of the world. SJC airport looks to be growing about 2%/year now -- so I guess we'll have to go to SFO to watch the big planes. I think its only a matter of time before all the bay area airports max out and some one will send a 787 sized plane into SJC.


User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8004 times:

i think the media made a huge boo boo, and meant with 8-10 dailies between lax and sjc, that way sjc pax had options to still fly aa to nrt via lax

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6153 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7954 times:

If a OneWorld passenger need to get to the Bay Area and can't afford the time changing planes in LAX, take JAL NRT-SFO.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7949 times:

This was expected, but its still sad to hear the final news on the SJC-NRT route.....its the latest chapter in AA's love/hate relationship with SJC. I remember when the flight was first launched, with the BOS-SJC-NRT routing......the high-tech special.

In any case, I guess that the 777s utilized on this route will be headed to MIA for use on the South American network.......wasnt one of the daily MIA-GRU flights "downgraded" to a 763 a while ago? I assume that flight will now be flown with 777 equipment.


User currently onlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7940 times:

I'm not happy about this.

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7900 times:

To me, the SJC-NRT flight wasn't well positioned at SJC. I know, I know, lots of tehcies going to Japan, but there was hardly any feeder non-stop service for this flight. Then combine that with HUGE amounts of combinations and accomodations at SFO-Asia, then AA doesn't stand out very much in the bay area with their one and only longhaul flight. I think they DID has aspirations of making SJC some sort of Asian hub, with the addition of the the TPE flights, but those ambitions were quickly extinguished.

UAL


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7828 times:

I remember for some time DL tried a PDX-NRT run, but then dropped it and shifted the slot to LAX. at least AA has put together a descent fleet of 777s, something DL has not done and desperately needs to do. Like PDX, SJC just lacked the numbers to make such a run profitable. The only North American west coast airports that can support such a flight are LAX, SFO, SEA and YVR.


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7780 times:

Like the ORD-NGO route, this route was doomed to failure with the amount of pax and fuel needed to fill the route to make this route possible...

maybe we'll see this route restart once (if) AA gets some 787's on board..... yes 

regardless, it is quite sad to see what has happened to AA-SJC over the past few years.... Sad

Besides HA's 767 and a couple of freighters such as FX, there will be basically no more heavies @ SJC... Sad



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2283 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7684 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 9):
i think the media made a huge boo boo, and meant with 8-10 dailies between lax and sjc, that way sjc pax had options to still fly aa to nrt via lax

Bingo.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7665 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
maybe we'll see this route restart once (if) AA gets some 787's on board.....

More likely you will see a Japanese airline fly the route.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7640 times:

If I remember right, AA really didn't want the SJC-NRT authority when it was granted. The #1 choice for them at the time was LAX-NRT, which they didn't get. In the end it was AA that did the route in, just like SJC will soon just be another small dot on their map. It just amazing what they did to the old Air Cal and Reno Air routes. And their oneworld partners are upset with them for lack of connections at LAX, which is why Qantas teams with US Airways for service to Phoenix and some points in Canada.

User currently offlineMikesairways From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7593 times:
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Sad sad news - wow.

At least it had a great 15 year run. SJC really used to be a rocking airport. Its funny, I was watching TV the other night and the Rookie (Chrlie Sheen and Clint Eastwood) was on - the ending of that movie was filmed in a fairly newly opened Terminal A.

So I'm prob going to take a couple of guesses at whats next - the LAS flight i'm sure will be canceled if not coverted to Eagle. I wonder if they'll keep the Admirals Club Open? Who's going to use A1A now - is it just going to sit vacant?



The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7593 times:

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 17):

More likely you will see a Japanese airline fly the route.

hasn't stopped AA however from flying to Japan........maybe a codeshare with JL, but they still fly many of the same routes..such as ORD/JFK/LAX-NRT...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
at least AA has put together a descent fleet of 777s, something DL has not done and desperately needs to do.

remember that at the time DL was trying to be something in Asia, it had a fleet of 15 MD-11s in addition to the 777s. DL's failure on the Pacific was due to a failure to feed PDX and the bad economics of the MD-11. I would venture to say that most of the routes DL flew could work now w/ the AS codeshare and if they were flown w/ 767s.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
I remember for some time DL tried a PDX-NRT run, but then dropped it and shifted the slot to LAX. at least AA has put together a descent fleet of 777s, something DL has not done and desperately needs to do. Like PDX, SJC just lacked the numbers to make such a run profitable. The only North American west coast airports that can support such a flight are LAX, SFO, SEA and YVR.

PDX supports transpac service... it is supported by some financial incentives but is probably profitable given that NW has a hub on one end and they use the A332 which is quite efficient and has decent cargo capabilities.

Quoting RIPCORDD (Reply 5):
I would be surprised if they started a 2nd daily ord-nrt flight a lot of times they leave freight behind and a lot of it too. This flight is always maxed out with freight in and out and i would be surprised if they broke even or made a profit just hauling the freight and no pax.

No US carrier can make money solely on cargo using belly capacity on a combination aircraft. The belly is too small and passenger carriers have significant costs built in related to passenger service (flight attendants, passenger service amenities, passenger terminal costs etc) that prevent a profit without carrying significant passengers. A good cargo load and full business class at full fares can certainly make a flight profitable without coach but not on cargo alone.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7489 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
hasn't stopped AA however from flying to Japan........maybe a codeshare with JL, but they still fly many of the same routes..such as ORD/JFK/LAX-NRT...

But these are decent or strong AA hubs with plenty of O&D traffic and plenty of international flights on AA widebodies. For now, SJC seems more of a spoke airport. A 777 is too much aircraft to allocate to that route if you have week feed on one side. Also it probably is a disadvantage for them operationally that they don't operate 777s on other routes out of SJC (except for positioning?). JAL would have the advantage of having a widebody base at NRT.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5532 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7457 times:

There can be little doubt, this service cancellation is a direct and proximate consequence of AA's compelled return to DAL following removal of Missouri and Kansas from the Wright Amendment restrictions.

If the Wright Amendment is lifted, you may be certain that AA will have to suspend all service to every Asian destination, and 2/3 of their Europe service.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7451 times:

Quoting Mikesairways (Reply 19):
I wonder if they'll keep the Admirals Club Open? Who's going to use A1A now - is it just going to sit vacant?

Being an Admirals's Club Member and flying basically out of SJC, I see the AC full even early in the morning, which is well before the SJC flight...

AA is only 2nd to WN @ SJC in terms of total flights...they still have 3 mainline flights to ORD, 7 to DFW, and 3 to AUS, and 1 to SNA.....as well as the 9 Eagle flights to SAN, 10 Eagle flights to SNA, and 9 Eagle flights to LAX

They have only one LAS and NRT flight, so that would only end 2 mainline flights....

sux? Yes...end of AA @ SJC? Probably not....and they will probably keep the AC open...

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
For now, SJC seems more of a spoke airport. A 777 is too much aircraft to allocate to that route if you have week feed on one side. Also it probably is a disadvantage for them operationally that they don't operate 777s on other routes out of SJC (except for positioning?). JAL would have the advantage of having a widebody base at NRT.

I agree with SJC being a spoke airport and the 777 being "too much" airplane..however, if they can get the 787-8's, I think that would do much better in terms of yields, and they can probably use that for multiple USA-NRT sectors.......as well as ORD-NGO...



"Up the Irons!"
25 Atmx2000 : They will still have the problem of positioning a 787 in SJC. It's not going to be a widebody hub.
26 OH-LGA : Hmmm... compelled? Nothing is ever compelled upon business except in the form of government regulation. All others are the forces of the market. Extr
27 Boeing7E7 : Wrong part of the continent bud.
28 MAH4546 : Correct. Until a new route is found, AA will be able to use the freed up plane and fly MIA-EZE with 777s 2x daily year-round. As AA's single most pro
29 Tpac : This is a very sad chapter in AA history and SJC. Back in the good old days, SJC-NRT was a profitable route for AA for some time, although, once AA cu
30 Dc10s4ever : Well I mentioned this two weeks ago but nooooo one believed me..... Anyway the LAS flight is also history, as far as the club, I dont think they have
31 Dalavia : I wonder if this is the first step towards AA adopting a hub-to-hub strategy and abandoning point-to-point. SJC-NRT seemed to be a classic point-to-po
32 MAH4546 : It is one of many recently taken steps to focus on less point-to-point, but don't be mistaken. Los Angeles, LaGuardia, and JFK will be key parts of A
33 HB-IWC : I'm surprised nobody here is asking what's going to happen to the NRT-slot involved? I cannot for a moment imagine that AA would let a valuable asset
34 MAH4546 : AA, unfortunatley, might have it go to waste or lease it out (if they can, I don't know if Narita slots can be leased like Heathrow slots). As of now
35 AJMIA : How long can the slot go unused before they have to use it or loose it? AJMIA
36 Incitatus : That frees up 2x 767s which will be used for .... ?
37 Post contains images Legacyins : Yes, you deserve full credit for this one. I knew this one was going also. I have contacts with Customs at SJC and the AA manager mentioned it to the
38 Post contains images Mikesairways : To relaunch SJC-JFK (Hey, one can dream, right) Incidently - there was an AA 757 here last night, was a charter from SLC - anyone know who was being
39 SJCRRPAX : I agree. In fact if we don't see more transpacific / transatlantic flights from the likes of OAK, DIA, SJC, SAN and HAM when the 787 arrives, than I
40 BigGSFO : Yes you did and I for one, didn't want to believe you. But you were right.
41 SJCRRPAX : The only person of note worth in SJ is Madonna. Concert was in Vegas 27,28 and San Jose 30,31 --- doesn't seem like much time to set up the concert u
42 Mikesairways : Quite possibly - I'm bummed out I couldn't get tickets. I had thought that originally but i figured she'd travel in something a bit more plush.
43 N1120A : AA doesn't fly SFO-NRT He was making a joke based on AA's claims that the DFW-LIM flight was a casualty of the WA relaxation, which is actually very
44 777D : Reopen SEA-NRT? This would be a nice move to bring back this route. Add some competition to UA and NW.
45 SJCRRPAX : If you use the AA website, one of the options listed for LAX to NRT is ( LAX- SFO - NRT ) , but the SFO - NRT leg says operated by JAL. You get about
46 UN_B732 : AA is using the slot at 777 for HNL-NRT, as far as I understand it. -Mr. X
47 Burnsie28 : Which have the market pretty well wrapped up, NW has a big Microsoft contract and NW is going to add a second daily SEA-NRT-SEA on Saturdays.
48 Burnsie28 : This flight is often overbooked as well. Especially tomorrow
49 Tbear815 : These games of hubs and spokes has cost the industry billions. Between de-regulation and mileage schemes, the only ones who have profited are the self
50 SJCRRPAX : Are you suggesting that WN would close operations at either SJC or OAK? Will never happen. IF WN were to move out of SJC almost all of the WN passeng
51 Tbear815 : With BART coming right into SFO and the airtrain, what's to say that WN wouldn't move into the old international/central terminal? There's terminal sp
52 SJCRRPAX : Let me see if I get this straight, WN was at SFO a few years ago and had like two flights a day, was losing money, and the fog was messing up their s
53 MAH4546 : No, they are not. AA recently forfeited their HNL-NRT route authority.
54 AJMIA : It looks like the SJC-LAS trip is going to be cut in favor of reintroducing the jet service on LAX-LAS for the NRT connections. I am not sure if eagle
55 Mikesairways : Wow - just two ORD flights per day. I was looking at the schedules for November and there is just one evening return (ORD-SJC) the other is in the mo
56 SJCRRPAX : Not to worry SJC folks, we still got 7 nonstops daily to Vegas on WN, and 3 daily on USAIR. Thats's 9 B737 and 1 A320. I doubt if the Eagle would bot
57 SJCRRPAX : Yea, the way its going they should just hang a big sign on terminal "A" and call it the "Southwest Terminal". I bet that cool looking BAX DC-8 apprec
58 Mikesairways : I think SJC-FAT would be a very great niche for someone to pick up. Way back when I worked for WN in bags, we would cringe every time a pax lived in F
59 MAH4546 : Just FYI, I can confirm the plane is going to South America flying, though not MIA-EZE. MIA-EZE goes double daily 777 on 6Sep06, but that is because R
60 BHMNONREV : It was just a matter of time, I suppose AA got tired of seeing an empty F class every day when South America is clamoring for more premium seats. A 7
61 QQflyboy : The pilot rumor mill says AA is going to relinguish the unused NRT slot and the extra T7 may be used to begin JFK-DEL.
62 ERJ170 : I thought F class was full/paid for but Y class was empty..
63 BHMNONREV : I don't know the particulars of the GSK agreement, but the few times I have non-revved RDU-LGW First Class was always empty save for a few NR's like
64 Avatordon : If AA were to start JFK-DEL, like CO, they would do very well. The carrier that starts NYC-BOM nonstops will be a sure winner.
65 MAH4546 : The pilots must have not read their e-mail. AA sent out a notice that the planes are going to increase capacity to South America.
66 Cschleic : For a time the DL mini-hub was larger than that. NRT, Nagoya, Taipei, Seoul and Fukuoka. Plus JFK, BOS, LAX and continuing to ATL. Originally the Asi
67 Avatordon : There was another, seroious issue w/PDX. The FIS. It seems they were somewhat overly aggressive to foreign nationals w/improper documentation. I think
68 AJMIA : So if there are going to be some 777 upgrades on 767 routes MIA-EZE and MIA-GRU what is going to happen to the 767s already there (besides 767 RDU-LG
69 Hiflyer : They are going to put MORE seats back into those birds? LRTC on steroids!!
70 Floridaflyboy : This seems very odd. They shut down SJC-NRT, but they keep running that RDU-LGW run, both with a 777. I wish AA would just downsize to 767-300ER or so
71 AAtakeMeAway : ?? Surely he meant more planes, not more seats per plane....
72 Rdu777 : The RDU-LGW route will be a 763 beginnin the third quarter of 2006. I forget the exact month but it's either sept. or oct. someone will be able to cor
73 ONTFlyer : Anybody know what reg. number opertated NRT-SJC this past Tuesday the 13th?? Thanks in advance! ONT
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