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UA IAD-NRT Rumors  
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5894 times:

This is my first ever post on the website, but I've been a long-time lurker. I am a furloughed UAL CSR anxious to return to the industry that I love. I was speaking to a friend who's a CSR at IAD and was caught off guard with the IAD-Kuwait announcement. Apparently, there are now rumors about new IAD-NRT service. Any truth to this? Please feel free to direct me to the appropriate forum if I'm posting in the wrong place.

Thanks in advance!

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5878 times:

Hey Ualcsr welcome to the site!!

Well I dont know about the new rumors for this route, but what will they use? Probably a 744, I dont know if their 772 can make it  Smile



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4513 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5878 times:

Welcome to Airliners.net and it seems to me like your first post is immediately going to stir up quite a discussion here.

Would a possible UA-operated IAD NRT flight complement or replace the existing daily B777 operated by NH? I know there has been talk in the past of UA's taking over this service.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1528 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
Would a possible UA-operated IAD NRT flight complement or replace the existing daily B777 operated by NH? I know there has been talk in the past of UA's taking over this service.

It would replace NH's daily 772 (sometimes 773). I've been hearing rumors for the last year or so of UA moving JFK-NRT to IAD-NRT. JFK-NRT yield can't be too great with 5? carriers on the route...UA, NH, JL, AA, NW (or maybe NW just ended it).



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5783 times:

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 3):
It would replace NH's daily 772 (sometimes 773). I've been hearing rumors for the last year or so of UA moving JFK-NRT to IAD-NRT. JFK-NRT yield can't be too great with 5? carriers on the route...UA, NH, JL, AA, NW (or maybe NW just ended it).

NW dropped JFK-NRT just before the bankruptcy. So there are four carriers on the route. It is the one hole left in UA's network from IAD. They've been flying a one-stop to NRT from IAD for years now. A nonstop would do wonders for their large IAD presence.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
Well I dont know about the new rumors for this route, but what will they use? Probably a 744, I dont know if their 772 can make it

Clearly, their 777-200ERs can make it. IAD-NRT is a relatively short hop for their transpac network.

N


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5757 times:

Why are you on furlough??? United is hiring CSRs like crazy at almost every station. Move to Dulles, Chicago, San Diego, LAX, SFO...they'll take you.

The only rumors I've seen about IAD-NRT have originated and are perpetuated on this forum. We're kind of inbred here. I doubt anyone can cite a credible source of any such rumor.


User currently offlineRamprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5738 times:

He is furloughed from MIA. That station took a big hit with the draw down of a gateway to just a line station. He probably likes living in Miami. I hope they don't take the JFK-NRT to make IAD-NRT. We are pulling way too many flights out of the NYC area.

User currently offlineGOCAPS16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4355 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

I think it'd be nice to finally see United flying across the pacific ocean from Dulles.

Kevin



SIX T'S!......TURN. TIME. TWIST. THROTTLE. TALK. TRACK.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5602 times:

NH isn't moving out of IAD anytime soon. The new 773ERs will be a permanent fixture (for now).
UA has two daily flights on the NRT-ICN at similar times, so one of those slots could be used for the NRT-IAD.

I think there is enough room for both carriers on the NRT-IAD because UA's flight would depart in the evening from NRT, while NH's flight would leave in the current morning slot. There's not much choice when it comes to westbound time slots, so both flights will most likely depart within two hours of each other around noon from IAD.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

UA codeshare on the NH IAD-NRT flight dont they?

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 3):
It would replace NH's daily 772 (sometimes 773). I've been hearing rumors for the last year or so of UA moving JFK-NRT to IAD-NRT. JFK-NRT yield can't be too great with 5? carriers on the route...UA, NH, JL, AA, NW (or maybe NW just ended it).

Its not like UA really care about the NYC market is it. If EU-US open skies happens, whats the chance JFK-LHR will get switched to DEN-LHR?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineCyberUAL From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
Why are you on furlough??? United is hiring CSRs like crazy at almost every station. Move to Dulles, Chicago, San Diego, LAX, SFO...they'll take you.

United is not hiring CSR at LAX anytime soon. We still have people on furlough.


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

MIA recalling 1FT 2PT this week last I heard but that is about it.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

IAD makes far more sense for UA to NRT than JFK. It makes far more sense for UA to operate its own aircraft out of IAD and rely on codeshare service from JFK rather than the other way around.

If rumors of AA's possible conversion of JFKNRT service to another route are true, it would bring a gap in NYCNRT service given NW's departure although I think it is very likely DL will start JFKNRT service within the next year which could put further pressure on UA.

If the EU-US open skies agreement is opened, it will put further pressure on UA in NYC. DL and CO will undoubtedly expand/gain new service from NYC and to LON.

The Star Alliance is relatively weak in NYC when compred with the alliances due to the strength/weakness of their US partners.


User currently offlineScrappy74 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 97 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 4):
nonstop would do wonders for their large IAD presence.

I haven't heard anything about IAD-NRT but like Ualcsr's friends at IAD I hadn't heard anything about IAD-KWI until the press release. It would be nice to have another regular 744 flight (if that was the a/c chosen) from IAD, currently we only have the 17:15 to FRA.

And if you're interested in coming off furlough IAD would be a good place to start...

 twocents 



"These days, I wish I was 6 again..."
User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

I had heard from one of my accounts in New England about a year ago that his NH rep told him that NH was going to drop IAD, move flight to ORD, and UA was going into IAD. Whether or not JFK would be dropped or not was not mentioned. It would, however, make sense, from a financial point.

When UA had all of the ex-PA route authority from JFK, only the NRT service made money. The main reason for that was that, unlike LHR, NRT was an already established "hub" that fed high yield routes beyond NRT. LHR, on the other hand, only had feed to a handful of continental European cities. In terms of share in the JFK-NRT market, AA is 1, JAL 2, NH 3 and UA 4. (NW had been in last place, but withdrew.) This route is a money maker for JAL but am surprised about AA rumor that they might be thinking of suspending it.

The South American flights, were essentially JFK to GRU/EZE/CCS services, and the market was more local, whereas AA & CO were able to feed JFK & EWR from beyond points. When UA moved the South American flying to IAD, these flights started to do very well financially.

One last thing on this diatribe - when I was in sales at UA, and we had "info sessions", we were shown a video by then-president Dutta which explained the logic behind how routes were chosen. It went something like hub to hub, such as ORD-DEN, always were profitable because UA was a dominant carrier in both cities, and was feeding off the strengths of the network. Hub to STAR cities, such as ORD-LHR, were marginally profitable because on one end, there was a true hub, which would always play on the strangths of the network. But STAR to STAR cities, such as JFK to LHR, would never make money, because the carrier was not strong in either city and only a hub "connection" could support it. Although UA would have liked to build up the likes of NYC & MIA, the financial committment to add real estate, equipment and routes would have been staggering. (This was pre-LCC days, so that could have changed by now). If you factor the FFP into the equation (in NY AA w/Citibank, CO w/Chase), this skews things as well.

Don


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting Scrappy74 (Reply 14):
And if you're interested in coming off furlough IAD would be a good place to start...

I was never furloughed by any airline--the thread-starter was.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
If rumors of AA's possible conversion of JFKNRT service to another route are true, it would bring a gap in NYCNRT service given NW's departure although I think it is very likely DL will start JFKNRT service within the next year which could put further pressure on UA.

I have heard that AA's JFK-NRT is performing well. Of course not the same story for SJC-NRT which will enter the history books in October. Either way if UA drops out of the NYC-Japan race, DL could very well re-enter the market given their aggressive focus on JFK lately. Of course they'd have to shuffle their fleet to dedicate 2 777's for the route.

However UA operating IAD-NRT is long overdue. With a hub at both ends, UA's large customer base in DC, and decent O&D and yields, I would think it would be a no-brainer - especially if they tagged it to PEK (Don't they still have Japan-China rights?).


User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Ramprat---You're absolutely right; I was furloughed out of Miami in 2003. I was born and raised here and have family commitments and another full-time job which keep me in Miami. I have friends who've transferred to MSP and IAD and have been lucky to enough to "give away hours" and be able to commute, but I'm a little scared doing it because if it doesn't work out and I'd have to quit, I'd lose all recall rights. Honestly, I agree with Scrappy that IAD would be a great place to go to for UAL right now, much more so that ORD. It just seems UAL is making more of a commitment out of IAD.

Hiflyer---I also heard the rumor about the recall --1FT, 2PT---supposedly due to some CSRs retiring soon, not growth. However, as you probably know, there have been rumors circulating for some time that once the new north terminal opens at MIA sometime in early 2007 (???), Star Alliance is obligated to have a minimum of 30 to 35 flights and it will fall on United to make up the difference so hopefully, if all that is true, then UA can have a bigger recall here and I'll be back in; I'm not too far off from the current seniority being called (I was actually trained in Apollo, not FastAir, so that gives you an idea!) I can see UA adding TED flights to IAD, especially as FLL is maxed out, and reinstating LAX and SFO (using TED) and maybe adding LAS, I think, would work well in the market. I've heard about adding Caribbean flights from here, but I can't see that happening given AA's presence in Miami. I don't think we'll ever see Deep South flying on UA from MIA again. Although it cost me my job, having the Latin American "gateway" in Miami made absolutely no sense; I believe that only MIA-EZE was profitable 'til the end, but those flights are now doing great out of IAD. I wish though, that UA would make a bigger commitment to Latin America, perhaps flying from IAD-CCS, IAD-BOG, IAD-SCL and IAD-LIM

I really should've started another thread about this; I'm just a novice so please bear with me.

Thanks to all for the comments to my post and the warm welcomes!


User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5127 times:

Correction to above----meant to say the new "South" terminal. I know the "North" terminal is for American.

Back to the original thread a bit----how does UA do out of JFK on JFK-LHR and JFK-NRT? The more I think about it, the more moving the flights to IAD makes sense. There's no connectivity for UA out of JFK and enough local competition to keep margins below profit levels. Still, those flights have been around for a long time and know that UA is not one to keep unprofitable routes in its system.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5057 times:

When I was in UA sales, all of the big corporate clients wanted frequency between JFK and LHR. They **despised** the 767 on the route versus the 747s that BA flew/flies, and their product. UA had the 777 out of EWR, but it was a COG (Change of gauge) from ORD until the ORD-LHR nonstops started, at which point it went to a 767. UA didn't make the committment to JFK-LHR that AA did, and I remember someone remarking that UA never had more flights in the market than PA did in its hey day - that is, 3 during non-peak, and 4 peak season. Hate to say it, but think UA would do far better in IAD-NRT than they do JFK-NRT. In addition to the US feed, the could pick up additional Latin America traffic over IAD that is currently being routed via AC, as well as AA & CO and some UA via ORD. RG withdrawing from Brazil-Japan market has left a huge void, and our flight (JAL) is always full. And yes, Shellflat seats coming online in late October....

User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5045 times:

My take on this rumor is that there isn't really a demand for both ANA and UA to operate IAD-NRT. I would agree that UA may operate this route if ANA was to drop it. However, I am not convinced that ANA is getting ready to drop IAD in order to cooperate with its Star Alliance partner UA. I think ANA's IAD-NRT held its own weight for many years by being the sole operator connecting the the capitals of the U.S. and Japan. ANA is currently in a growth mode. It also reported recently that its North American routes are doing well. For UA, the codesharing is probably the way...and I wouldn't count on Japan-Latin America traffic via IAD due to Visa problems...and the connecting traffic from Asia to other east coast cities in the U.S. are simply handled at ORD. Therefore, I don't see connecting Asia and IAD hub is a necessity at this point.

I also do not believe UA's JFK-NRT is a bad performer mainly because of the connection feed to its Asian hub in NRT to go places beyond Japan. That's something that AA does not offer on its own metal from JFK. Besides, if UA pulled out of JFK-NRT to establish IAD-NRT (drop more seats than it needs), AA would become the sole American carrier to operate JFK-NRT. I would say UA would keep JFK-NRT. UA should still be very competive in that market to compete with AA.

[Edited 2006-05-27 18:11:01]

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5026 times:

UA is the only Star Alliance carrier flying between London and NYC. They won't give up that route. Too many frequent flyers from all the Star Alliance members fly that route between the major business and entertainment capitals. Star Alliance wouldn't disservice them by not offering the route

As an anecdote only, I've flown UA twice to and from NYC-NRT. Both times were packed in all classes both ways. Don't know about the cargo loads down below.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4990 times:

Hey Tokyo - while I agree w/you on these points, it doesn't mean that it can't happen. The Sales Dept for United fought tooth and nail to keep the South American flying at JFK - none of which was profitable due to lack of feed and UA not being a major player in the NYC market - but lost. It was moved to IAD where, between th e local market and feed, it does very well.

AA does better from JFK for a variety of reasons. 1) AA is a huge presence at JFK as well as in NY market 2) Frequent flyer program, AAdvantage, is largest in NY metro area, and is tied in w/largest bank, Citibank 3) AA has feed from throughout the Eastern seabord as well as deep South America. Look, I don;t want to see UA pull out of JFK - if they ever decide to. I spent 24 years of my life there, and am not thrilled about a lot of the changes. But JFK is to AA what IAD is to UA - a strong hub. (Have you had a chance to see what AA is building at JFK? The check-in area for their new terminal is bigger than Giants Stadium.)

As for the JFK must have 2 US carriers argument, don't know that that even flies anymore, especially w/fuel costs. EWR is a powerful hub, getting bigger each day, thanks to CO - so, you do have a minimum of 2 carriers serving the NY market, versus the specific airport. UA's reduction in the NY market has been huge. EWR has gone from 8 gates to 4, w/another one possibly being sold to B6. LGA & JFK service have shrunk, and they're concentrating on profitable flying to the hubs. 1 NRT & 1 LHR flights are the sole exceptions. The EWR flight attendant domocile will be closed come 01JUN, and combined w/JFK. So NY is not a growth market for them, but it would seem more of a fine tuning at this point. But as I said, I'd hate to see UA scale back anymore than it has in NY.


User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4964 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
I dont know if their 772 can make it

In winter and fall it's going to be extremely tight on payload given UA's saeating for their TransPac 777's...just pax no excess ACL for cargo...Also depends on if they can/will over fly kamchatka or not which saves 40mins and about 10,000lbs of fuel. Through the summer months their payloads will be limited by any temp above 15-17C which is the highest temp 648Klb MTOW is available for a PW powered 772 out of IAD...At the most severe conditions available TOW is cut to 630Klb or so but average avail MTOW in summer will be around 640Klb. The PW engine performance does limit capabilities for 777's flying this route, especially out of IAD. One of the reasons NH is moving to the 777-300ER...

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 3):
It would replace NH's daily 772 (sometimes 773). I've been hearing rumors for the last year or so of UA moving JFK-NRT to IAD-NRT. JFK-NRT yield can't be too great with 5? carriers on the route...UA, NH, JL, AA, NW (or maybe NW just ended it).

Regardless of what UA does they will not "replace" the NH daily flight which will change to a daily 777-300ER July 1, or as soon as reg JA735A enters service...no payload concerns on those ships, believe me.



-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
25 B4real : No way this will happen.
26 WorldTraveler : B4real, are you going to send me a restaurant gift certificate when DL announces JFKNRT service, which could come as early as next spring... and which
27 Avatordon : Thanks Worldtraveler - excellent points. The technology that provides nonstop flights from NYC area (JFK & EWR) to most major Asian cities has somewha
28 Post contains images WorldXplorer : Amen. All too frequently it seems to be forgotten that alliance airlines still compete against each other on numerous routes. I personally think the
29 Ualcsr : WorldXplorer---I also think that Kuwait is just the beginning for UA's international expansion out of IAD. Although NYC obviously has a larger pax bas
30 WorldXplorer : I have thought that DXB should be served by a US carrier for quite a while now. I also think that Eastern Europe is virgin territory. But Eastern Eur
31 AussieItaliano : I also hope they don't. But I don't think that will happen. Zero. UA is down to one flight on JFK-LHR. If they decide to start JFK-LHR, they'll proba
32 Humberside : Doesn't UA codehsare on SAA's IAD flights. I cant see any need for two carriers on the route Assuming EU-US open skies happens, they could make offer
33 Mymiles2go : Everybody's forgetting the obvious - UA doesn't have many extra aircraft. The IAD-NRT rumors have been around for a long time. Further, if UA was to d
34 WorldXplorer : Neither did CO, but with increased utilization and a/c swapping on other routes, they got their int'l expansion done. Plus I thought that UA had 4 74
35 Post contains images Avatordon : Granted, thre rumors have been around for a long time, but the price of fuel being what it is hasn't. If some of these carriers make the changes, it w
36 BayAreaPilot : UA would have to discontinue one of its current China flights to restart Japan-China service. Anyway IAD-ORD-PEK is considerably shorter than IAD-NRT
37 ContinentalEWR : The 772 can easily make IAD-NRT. UA uses a 772 on JFK-NRT, as does AA and CO flies a 772 from EWR-NRT. DL uses a 772 from ATL to NRT. The distances ar
38 Kurt : We took UA800 NRT-JFK last year - it's a nice flight and gets you to New York before 4 p.m. We were supposed to do NRT-SFO-JFK and arrive at 7:30 or s
39 Bicoastal : As I stated earlier, UA offers the only Star Alliance flight between two important business centers, NYC and London, which is heavily utilized by fre
40 RJpieces : I don't think United will ever drop JFK-LHR, but it would perhaps make sense to put a ps 757 on that run....
41 BigGSFO : Perhaps. However UA isn't going to operate a flight just to insure the Star Alliance can offer service between NYC-LHR. UA will put their resources t
42 USPIT10L : Once UA gets the planes necessary to start expanding in a large scale internationally, I think IAD-WAW, IAD-CCS, and IAD-SCL would do well. IAD-JNB i
43 Avatordon : If VS ever joins an alliance - and my money would be on STAR, due to SQ equity - BD notwithstanding, would make UA's one flight in JFK-LHR market some
44 Ualcsr : USPIT10L-- I checked EI's website and couldn't find any service from IAD to Ireland, although they might do some kind of code sharing with AA. I still
45 B4real : No, I won't give you a dinner for it. But, do you have any indication that they would do this? Here are my reasons against DL operating JFK-NRT: -Lim
46 Flyguy1 : Supposedly, once NW gets the 787, JFK-NRT will return.
47 B4real : That would make sense.
48 BigGSFO : Thank you! This is ultimately and always the bottom line.
49 Post contains images Avatordon : EI didn't serve IAD - twas BWI! After 9/11, they suspended both BWI & EWR. (Wish they flew to EWR!) I remember reading years ago, that EI had wanted t
50 UAL777UK : Exactly, which is why UA will not drop JFK to LHR/NRT. I see other routes out of IAD before we see NRT.
51 Gigneil : I really don't see why they don't just fly the route with a 332. N
52 Carpethead : Correct. Thus DL cannot increase Tokyo flying. Even if they wanted to.
53 Atmx2000 : And SkyTeam is really strong in NYC, with two carriers. Of course competition between DL and CO probably put a strain on that alliance. A CO-UA merge
54 Widebodyphotog : I would not be surprised at this as other carriers are looking to do Asia ops from the North American East coast with 787 as well... The A332 really
55 Gigneil : I'm really curious, then, about AC's apparently successful (at least in the past) YYZ-NRT service with a 763ER. N
56 WorldTraveler : DL started JFKNRT less than six months before 9/11 using an MD-11. Pulling out shortly after 9/11 says nothing about their ability to operate the rout
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