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CAL Now Bigger Than NW  
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Continental flies into fourth place
Carrier rises in size rankings as mileage jumps by 13 percent

By BILL HENSEL JR.
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Continental's drive to expand has allowed it to pass Northwest Airlines, becoming the nation's fourth-largest air carrier.

The Houston-based carrier flew 24.6 billion miles through April of this year � up 13 percent. Mileage at Northwest, which is in bankruptcy court, dropped by about 6.2 percent to 23 billion miles.

The next carrier on this list was Dallas-based Southwest Airlines, reporting 21 billion miles through April.

The rankings are based on revenue passenger miles as reported by the airlines each month.

Continental, which has been adding seat capacity while many other carriers have been shrinking, has said it will grow by about 8.3 percent this year, while Southwest will grow 9 percent.

Southwest carries more than 80 percent of the passengers in Houston's Hobby Airport.

Based on the data reported by the airlines, Fort Worth-based American Airlines is ranked first, flying 44.9 billion miles. Second was United, at 37.2 billion, followed by Delta at 35.8 billion.

Continental credited wage and benefit concessions by its employees for helping it pursue its ongoing expansion.

"Because of their personal sacrifices, Continental was able to survive the tough times, avoid the fate of other airlines that are now in bankruptcy and embark on one of the most aggressive expansion plans in our history," Continental spokeswoman Julie King said Friday.

All of the nation's big airlines except Southwest have been making moves to add international flights because they can make more money.

Southwest just flies domestically.

Northwest ranks ahead of Continental in terms of passengers boarded, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

That agency, reporting for the first two months of the year, shows Southwest Airlines to be first in passenger boardings, carrying 13.6 million. Continental is fifth, at 5.2 million.

A spokesman for Northwest, who acknowledged it is the fifth-biggest carrier in terms of revenue passenger miles, said it's been reducing flights.

It is working to build a more profitable route system at a time of higher fuel costs.

Northwest has embarked on a "right-sizing" campaign while in bankruptcy court to try to make it more competitive.

That includes wage and benefits concessions by employees and shedding some aircraft.

Travel expert Terry Trippler said Friday that while the change in rankings could be temporary, time will tell. He expects Northwest to emerge from bankruptcy court protection at the end of this year or in 2007.

"Northwest is going to have a real battle on their hands because Continental seems to be an airline that is at the right place at the right time doing the right thing," said Trippler, a spokesman for CheapSeats.com. "What they have been doing has been working, and if it ain't broke, you don't fix it."

bill.hensel@chron.com


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 5153 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3657 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):


"Northwest is going to have a real battle on their hands because Continental seems to be an airline that is at the right place at the right time doing the right thing," said Trippler, a spokesman for CheapSeats.com. "What they have been doing has been working, and if it ain't broke, you don't fix it."

What battle? NW and CO are partners...and outside of the CLE/DTW area they don't really overlap at all. Even MEM and IAH serve different traffic flows, even if they relatively close together.



Next Up: STL-EWR-STL for my first mileage run!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
What battle? NW and CO are partners...

Don't fool yourself. If you're going to get the picture in most alliances of warm and fuzzy partners, all one big happy family, you're mistaken. Even within alliances, this is still a cut-throat business, and simply because you're in an alliance doesn't mean you want to yield market to a partner.

Which is why I laugh my ass of when I hear people say that out of CLE that CO will run this or that, or not run this or that, because of what NW is doing in DTW. That's just idiotic. CO is going to do in CLE what it thinks is best for CO, and doesn't really give a rats ass what NW thinks about it.

Partners, yes, because it can increase revenue without increasing metal used. Friends and buddies? Don't believe it.


User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Two things larry said at a ceo exchange.

1. We will grow to be bigger then delta

2. We do not want to merge with anyone but if other airlines start to get together when we are not going to stand by and watch.

I personaly hope that when we grow to be bigger then delta, we open up another base. But you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see what fills up first.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):

WHAT!
You mean CO and NW aren't really holding hands around a campfire roasting marshmallows and singing Kum-ba-Yah?

I'm crushed.....



Delete this User
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5700 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
You mean CO and NW aren't really holding hands around a campfire roasting marshmallows and singing Kum-ba-Yah?

LOL...CO would rather be alone than team up in SkyTeam and partner with perrenial losers DLand NW. Gordon and Larry stated this a few times.



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7553 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 3):

1. We will grow to be bigger then delta

Yeah, only if Delta keeps cutting back

They likely wont be bigger then NW for too long, NW is once again expanding quite a bit and with 757's and the return of 3 more 744's and receiving more A330's should put NW back on top.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

"Because of their personal sacrifices, Continental was able to survive the tough times, avoid the fate of other airlines that are now in bankruptcy and embark on one of the most aggressive expansion plans in our history," Continental spokeswoman Julie King said Friday.

Avoid what fate? They're making some interesting assumptions here. And, a little revisionist history as well. Nice.

[Edited 2006-05-29 10:07:56]


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
They likely wont be bigger then NW for too long, NW is once again expanding quite a bit and with 757's and the return of 3 more 744's and receiving more A330's should put NW back on top.

That's in the nexts 12 to 18 Months, a short time after that the B787 come in. NWA is getting 12, CO only 5.


User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

Yea but cal has a few planes still to come

2-777
2-757-300
and i think 6 more 737-800 but i am not sure about that

and thats before the 10 787's not 5 come

P.S. I want my airline to be the best not the biggest


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
LOL...CO would rather be alone than team up in SkyTeam and partner with perrenial losers DLand NW. Gordon and Larry stated this a few times.

Perrenial losers? Which of these three airlines has declared bankruptcy twice?


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 10):
Perrenial losers? Which of these three airlines has declared bankruptcy twice?

Pre- and post-9/11 bankruptcy are two entirely different things; it's not a fair comparison to refer to CO's two bankruptcies in the late 80s and early 90s in the same context as the current situation at NW and DL.


User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 3):
1. We will grow to be bigger then delta

I really cant see that happening for a while. They have quite a ways to go before they can reach the amount of RPMs that Delta generates.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 11):
Pre- and post-9/11 bankruptcy are two entirely different things; it's not a fair comparison to refer to CO's two bankruptcies in the late 80s and early 90s in the same context as the current situation at NW and DL.

I realize they are two different situations but Western A318 used the time period of "perennial" ( or perrenial as he called it) which goes back much further than 9/11. for the past 50, 40, 30, 20 or 10 years CO has been had much deeper financial problems than either DL or NW. His choice of the time period, not mine.


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
His choice of the time period, not mine.

True...I guess you win on semantics.  whiteflag 


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2323 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 3):
Two things larry said at a ceo exchange.

1. We will grow to be bigger then delta

They would definitely have to open up some sort of hub out west, or connect everything to IAH ala DL at ATL. I personally don't see this happeneing, CO is virtually non-existant up here in the western part of the midwest and plains states (IA, IL, MN, NE and the Dakotas). At least with DL they are servicing many of the small/mid sized markets to their hubs.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 5153 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):


Don't fool yourself. If you're going to get the picture in most alliances of warm and fuzzy partners, all one big happy family, you're mistaken.

I'm not fooling myself, thank you very much. I never implied that NW and CO were making sweet love beneath the shady pines. But CO, as long as they are partners with NW in Skyteam, will fight thier battles elsewhere.



Next Up: STL-EWR-STL for my first mileage run!
User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
What battle? NW and CO are partners...and outside of the CLE/DTW area they don't really overlap at all. Even MEM and IAH serve different traffic flows, even if they relatively close together.

Good points.. then why don't they merge? it would make sense, no?


User currently offlineDb373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 243 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 11):
Pre- and post-9/11 bankruptcy are two entirely different things; it's not a fair comparison to refer to CO's two bankruptcies in the late 80s and early 90s in the same context as the current situation at NW and DL.

I don't get this statement at all. How is post-9/11 bankruptcy different than pre-9/11 bankruptcy?



Keep Delta My Delta
User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 12):

I agree I do not see it happening for a while also, but i know cal has at least 4 more years of 8 percent grow for each year. After that i could not tell you.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 16):
But CO, as long as they are partners with NW in Skyteam, will fight thier battles elsewhere.

You mean like CO and DL are? Big grin I rest my case.


User currently offlineNavairjax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Db373 (Reply 18):
I don't get this statement at all. How is post-9/11 bankruptcy different than pre-9/11 bankruptcy?

Umm.... did any other airline ever get to drag its feet like UA did in Ch 11? Both US and DL would likely have died if the courts still acted as they did back in the late 80s/early 90s.


User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Db373 (Reply 18):
How is post-9/11 bankruptcy different than pre-9/11 bankruptcy?

70 plus dollar oil prices affecting cost structures built around 40-50 barrel price ranges.



ETSN Baber, USN
User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

My biased two cents- so happy for CO and I cant stand NW..so this makes me happy  Smile

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Navairjax (Reply 21):
Both US and DL would likely have died if the courts still acted as they did back in the late 80s/early 90s.

Do you have any factual data to defend this statement, or is it just your opinion?

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 11):
Pre- and post-9/11 bankruptcy are two entirely different things; it's not a fair comparison to refer to CO's two bankruptcies in the late 80s and early 90s in the same context as the current situation at NW and DL.

I've heard so many people say this, but not one can produce a credible argument as to why it is true.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
25 Navairjax : While it is indeed my opinion some facts are hard to ignore. The Christmas 04 fiasco in PHL would have certainly have had a similar impact to US as t
26 DeltaSFO : I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Since entering bankruptcy, Delta has accelerated the previously announced $5 billion cost reduction goal
27 Cory6188 : The environments in which the companies' respective bankruptcies took (and are taking) place are entirely different. When CO was in bankruptcy in the
28 STT757 : CO has 10 firm and five options for 787-800s.
29 Nwab787techops : My Bad..... NWA has firm orders for 18 of the 787s, with initial delivery to begin in the summer of 2008. NWA also hold options and purchase rights f
30 OzarkD9S : Not so fast counselor. NW and CO were basically "absorbed" into SkyTeam when AF bought KLM. The NW/CO relationship is more integrated and has been ar
31 Post contains images Panamair : Actually, the $6 million loss for March (excluding special items and reorganization charges) was the NET loss, not the operating loss...so you can do
32 Falcon84 : Not true. CO didn't join Skyteam until long after NW had divested itself of CO's stock and their place on CO's board. CO didn't have a relationship w
33 MasseyBrown : A bankruptcy judge will permit the bankrupt estate almost any reasonable action that is not otherwise illegal or subject to objection. If the credito
34 Burnsie28 : Well NW was forced by the government to do so but agreements between the airlines were still close, up until just recently NW employess got "passes"
35 Falcon84 : Uh, a few things here: -Northwest was NOT forced by the government to divest itself of CO stock and a seat on the board. That was a deal made between
36 Post contains links Jano : CO, NW, KL entered SkyTeam at the same day Sep 13th 2004. Nor NW nor CO were 'absorbed' into SkyTeam. KL was 'absorbed' by the virtue of being a part
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