Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No B6 JFK-IAD Service?  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Just wondering why B6 decided to only operate JFK-BOS with the 190s instead of JFK-IAD? Are there plans to start a similiar service to IAD in the future?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2937 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

I certainly think this would be a great route for B6. JFK-BOS is doing terrifically so I see no reason for JFK-IAD to do any worse.

I'd expect for this route to already be in the makings.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

The arguement against the JFK-IAD route is that both JFK and IAD are NOT the airports preferred by most pax, especially business pax .......the question is whether this is a valid statement. Not many (including myself) thought that JetBlue would have success on the JFK-BOS route thinking that most pax would want to fly in and out of close-in LGA, but JetBlue has found its niche and does OK with JFK-BOS - maybe its the lower fares, maybe the flight appeals to residents of Queens, Brooklyn, Long Island for whom JFK is more convenient, maybe pax prefer JetBlue.

Could JetBLue repeat their success with JFK-IAD.....maybe but probably not, while JetBlue has proven that it can make shorthaul out of JFK work, IAD is a difficult proposition for short haul flights in the DC area.

I Air used IAD as a hub and flew JFK-IAD......does anyone know their O&D numbers on that route? My guess is that the numbers were not great and that JetBlue has better opportunities that the JFK-IAD route.


User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

But NY-IAD is much more saturated with carriers. This route will come on soon but not too soon.

B6jfk airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
I Air used IAD as a hub and flew JFK-IAD......does anyone know their O&D numbers on that route? My guess is that the numbers were not great and that JetBlue has better opportunities that the JFK-IAD route.

True, but eventually they switched to two IAD-LGA flights on an A319. Im not an advocate of JFK-IAD, I think B6 should apply for DCA slots because I think JFK-DCA on B6 would be very succesful.


User currently offlineBigdrewfl From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

Actually I was just in the last "Pocket Session" and David pretty much said that its comming very soon!......He said that JFK's T6 just didn't have enough gates for the flights but the additional gates at T5 are going to open up June 1st.......so its just a matter of time.

User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2937 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

Quoting Bigdrewfl (Reply 5):
David pretty much said that its comming very soon!......

I'm not surprised. B6 managed to pull high-frequency JFK-BOS and medium-frequency BOS-IAD off, so it just makes sense for JFK-IAD to be pulled off with just as much success. I think 7x on the E190s would be successful, with one less flight on the weekends. Fares from $55-$150 o/w would be good enough to make this flight profitable, IMO.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 3):
But NY-IAD is much more saturated with carriers

NYC-Washington is one route where Amtrak is competitive with the Shuttles, also driving depending on when you go is rather quick.

I live about 35 minutes South of Manhattan in Central NJ and I drove on a Sunday morning from my house to the Air and Space Museum at Dulles in 2 hours.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJerseyGuy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3741 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
NYC-Washington is one route where Amtrak is competitive with the Shuttles, also driving depending on when you go is rather quick.

I live about 35 minutes South of Manhattan in Central NJ and I drove on a Sunday morning from my house to the Air and Space Museum at Dulles in 2 hours.

Most people don't drive 108MPH (Edison, NJ to Dulles is 217 miles). Its 3 hours IF you don't get caught in any traffic.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
The arguement against the JFK-IAD route is that both JFK and IAD are NOT the airports preferred by most pax, especially business pax .......the question is whether this is a valid statement. Not many (including myself) thought that JetBlue would have success on the JFK-BOS route thinking that most pax would want to fly in and out of close-in LGA, but JetBlue has found its niche and does OK with JFK-BOS - maybe its the lower fares, maybe the flight appeals

We do OK on that route? The 190s are always full, 10 flights a day all going out with 100 customers. The route is preforming so well that the 320s have had to be substituted at the peak travel times because the 190s don't have the capacity to meet the demand. Not to mention these are 100 revenue paying customers, not company deadheads or nonrev traffic.



JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

Quoting Wmupilot (Reply 9):
We do OK on that route? The 190s are always full, 10 flights a day all going out with 100 customers. The route is preforming so well that the 320s have had to be substituted at the peak travel times because the 190s don't have the capacity to meet the demand. Not to mention these are 100 revenue paying customers, not company deadheads or nonrev traffic.

On $40 fares, of course B6 will be filling the seats...Profitability is a different matter though.


User currently offlineRottamo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 10):
On $40 fares, of course B6 will be filling the seats.

40/187 miles=$0.21 per mile and I took quick look at JetBlues web page and cheapest fare I found was $50 -> $0.27 per mile.

How much yield should be in that short route to be profitable?

Rottamo


User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 10):
On $40 fares, of course B6 will be filling the seats...Profitability is a different matter though.

Actually if you book 7-14 days ahead, JFK-BOS fares are around $50-60. Their last minute fares are about $105-125. It all depends what time of day you get your flight. If JetBlue wasn't profitable on this route, then probably one or two of their flights would have ended, and they would have raised fares.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineRottamo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3605 times:

I did quick search in internet and found following data about Southwest's
Dallas-Oklaholma city route (181 mi).
Load factor is very low 50-60% and yield is about $0.35 so prasm is about 0.17-0.20 and I guess that Southwest is making money in that route. So Jetblues profitability depends on load factors. if they are very high then it is quite possible that they are profitable.

Rottamo


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2937 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

The lowest JFK-BOS fare is $50, not $40. However, this is with an advanced purchase. The lowest walk-up fare is $70, though most fares are usually in the $90-$145 range. I can only assume that this route is performing nicely for B6 based on really nice loads as well as decent yields.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 8):
Most people don't drive 108MPH (Edison, NJ to Dulles is 217 miles). Its 3 hours IF you don't get caught in any traffic.

I drive fast, coming back from the Pearl Jam show at the Tweeter Center in Camden last night I made it from the Venue to my home in Western Monmouth County in 30 minutes, Forget the Turnpike, I was averaging about 90 on 295 a little slower (perhaps 80) on 195.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJerseyGuy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3560 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
I drive fast, coming back from the Pearl Jam show at the Tweeter Center in Camden last night I made it from the Venue to my home in Western Monmouth County in 30 minutes, Forget the Turnpike, I was averaging about 90 on 295 a little slower (perhaps 80) on 195.

If you live in Western Monmouth County then you must drive REAL fast to make it to Manhattan in 35 minutes. 90 must be slow.

BTW how do you afford your insurance because you must get aleast 5 tickets a year, even if you have a good radar detector have to get atleast 2.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3533 times:

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 16):
If you live in Western Monmouth County then you must drive REAL fast to make it to Manhattan in 35 minutes. 90 must be slow.

That's a Weekend drive, morning on a Workday would be anywhere between 60-90 minutes. Most of the delay being Route 9 and the traffic getting into the Holland Tunnel.

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 16):
BTW how do you afford your insurance because you must get aleast 5 tickets a year, even if you have a good radar detector have to get atleast 2.

I have not had a speeding ticket in 10 years (knocks on Wood), last time I got caught speeding was on route 18 doing about 85 although I pleaded guilty in exchange for them dropping the speed of the ticket which only got me two or three points.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRottamo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Quoting Rottamo (Reply 13):
I did quick search in internet and found following data about Southwest's

I found better information (I hope). If I use
http://www.gofox.com/flights/farewatch.php

it says that
Lowest Average Fare
Southwest Airlines
Avg One Way Fare: $82.16
Market Share: 66.87%
Route Averages
181 miles
326 daily passengers

-> yield is $0.48 and load factor has to be very low because SWA has five daily flights and there are only 326 daily passengers. -> Load factor is less than 50%(?)-> prasm 0.20-0.25.

If someone can offer load factor for the route then it is possible to calculate exact prasm.

Rottamo


User currently offlineMiCorazonAzul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

I was asking myself this question the other day also. It was actually a big group discussion and we couldn't agree why! I mean, we have BOS-IAD so it would make sense to have service to JFK since it IS our biggest station. Just like it would make sense to take over Independence Air's IAD-RSW route. The only airline now on that route is US but they fly to DCA.

User currently offlineJerseyGuy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
I have not had a speeding ticket in 10 years (knocks on Wood), last time I got caught speeding was on route 18 doing about 85 although I pleaded guilty in exchange for them dropping the speed of the ticket which only got me two or three points.

If you regularly drive 85-90, you are VERY LUCKY not to get a ticket in 10 years.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 4):
I think B6 should apply for DCA slots because I think JFK-DCA on B6 would be very succesful.

B6 would be succesful on many routes, but why establish a new expensive station when they already have a growing station at IAD? DCA is pricey and tight on gate space. And it's far from certain that passengers will pay a premium to fly DCA-JFK, especially with all the competition on the DCA-LGA runs....


User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 19):
I was asking myself this question the other day also. It was actually a big group discussion and we couldn't agree why! I mean, we have BOS-IAD so it would make sense to have service to JFK since it IS our biggest station. Just like it would make sense to take over Independence Air's IAD-RSW route. The only airline now on that route is US but they fly to DCA.

Maybe its a matter of space at JFK and availability of planes? I agree about IAD-RSW. I think IAD-RSW/MCO/MSY could work nicely for B6.


User currently offlineAeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

A time analysis of getting from N. VA to downtown Manhattan via a potential B6 flight on a Friday afternoon, assuming no thunderstorms, traffic issues, etc.:

Leave office/home: 1pm
Park at Dulles: 1:30pm
Get to terminal: 1:50pm
Check in: 2:10pm
Through security: 2:45pm
Flight Boards: 3:30pm
Flight Departs: 4:00pm
Flight Arrives JFK: 5:15pm

So what I see is a 4 hour and 15 minute trip, before one even ventures through to Manhattan, assuming of course that is the end destination.

I have to think that other than Eastern Long Island, getting on the train in DC, or driving, has got to be faster. When you add in air traffic issues, such as flow control, weather, etc., it gets even more competitive to stay on the ground in this market. B6 would be mad to make a major launch on the IAD/JFK route, when they are already struggling to make a buck.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 23):
B6 would be mad to make a major launch on the IAD/JFK route, when they are already struggling to make a buck.

I don't think they should have a huge JFK-IAD operation, but seeing as they have a decent operation at IAD and their main base is JFK...I think it would make sense to have some JFK-IAD service.

They won't capture the main business traffic between NY and DC (nor do they do so on JFK-BOS IMO), but they could fill it with a nice combo of leisure traffic.


25 JetBluefan1 : I think some of these times are a bit overestimated. For example, do people really get to the gate 1hr. 15min. before the departure time? On the ROC-
26 MAH4546 : You can't judge load factor with that figure. It doesn't include transiting passengers, so someone flying OKC-DAL-HOU is a OKC-HOU passenger, and isn
27 B6JFKH81 : Eastern Long Islanders would probably use WN ISP-BWI. I am nervous about the potential of ruining OTP with IAD-JFK routes, especially considering tha
28 UN_B732 : O L C I (which an extereme majority of B6 pax use, even on JFK-BTV) makes that argument pretty much moot. -A
29 FreakyDeaky : I consider myself at bit of an expert at driving between IAD and JFK - because I do it all the time (ick, ick, ick). I select 85 mph as much as possib
30 Post contains links Rottamo : Yes and Thanks. I actually realized that few hours after I wrote my message. OK. We don't know about cost side but we can do a fare comparison to sim
31 Post contains links Rottamo : Actually, very good comparison is here: http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...le_files/consumerairfarereport.htm and this pdf file is very interestin
32 WMUPilot : JFK-IAD is coming, lack of planes, lack of gates(JFK), and competition from the shuttles has prevented our entry.
33 EddieDude : Just as a side note that you may find interesting, DL has promotonial fares between JFK and IAD at the moment. They are quite attractive.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No AZ At IAD? posted Wed Nov 1 2006 03:45:28 by Mk777
Why No B6 At ISP? posted Thu Jun 29 2006 16:57:12 by Emseeeye
Question About B6 JFK-IAD Inaugural Flights posted Wed Jun 14 2006 02:36:12 by JetBluefan1
AA Why No FLL-JFK? posted Sun Jan 29 2006 20:45:20 by Hawk44
Why No DEN-JFK Direct? posted Tue Jan 10 2006 04:58:48 by OOer
Why No Direct LON-MNL Service? posted Mon Jul 18 2005 19:55:43 by Geoffm
Why No WN PVD-LAS Service? posted Sat Apr 16 2005 01:23:05 by Airknight
Why Is There No JFK-ORD Service? posted Mon Jun 10 2002 22:27:05 by Rolo987
JETBLUE: Why No Direct TV Service On JFK-San Juan? posted Sat Jun 1 2002 21:31:25 by AsianaAirlines
Why No SQ, CX & TG Service At IAD? posted Tue Nov 21 2006 14:59:37 by Mk777