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TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan  
User currently offlineCarmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4756 posts, RR: 31
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

I just came across this article (in Spanish): http://www.laprensagrafica.com/economia/501516.asp

The article states that TACA is currently in conversations with All Nippon Airways to strengthen air connections between Japan and Central America. The first step will be improving flight schedules in the US, to avoid long connections and overnights. Depending on results, the next step would be a nonstop transpacific flight Japan - El Salvador, using the SAL hub as entry to the Central American Region.

According to the article, the idea is to cater to Japanese tourists traveling to Central America (approx. 20,000), as well as those connecting to Peru (about 30,000 yearly).

A couple of personal comments:

1. Such an agreement would be beneficial, not only for the tourists; Japan has several cooperation projects with the local governments and NGO's.

2. Ok, maybe I'm seeing too much, but... NH is part of Star Alliance, right?  scratchchin 

Opinions, anyone?
- Carmen


What do I know, I'm just an 'immature troublemaker with only a passing interest in aviation' (or so they say)
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3630 times:
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How do Japanese make it to South America right now? Exclusively thru the US?


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineBlueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3601 times:
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Quoting Carmenlu15 (Thread starter):
According to the article, the idea is to cater to Japanese tourists traveling to Central America (approx. 20,000), as well as those connecting to Peru (about 30,000 yearly).

That's a total of 50,000 pax a year, or 136 and some a day. Hopefully there is a significant numbers of pax from Central America to Japan as well, otherwise the day of a non-stop may be far off, even on a 3x or 4x weekly schedule. For the time being, coordinating schedules for a connection in the US is the safer approach, although if I were a connecting passenger, I'd rather fly through Canada than clear US immigration along the way.

By the way, why so many Japanese pax to Peru alone ? The Fujimori effect ?



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3590 times:

There is a **significant** amount of Japanese that travel to/from South America via Europe, as well as US & Canada. In Peru, like Brazil, there is a Japanese ethnic population, though not anywhere near the size.

User currently offlineCarmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4756 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting Blueflyer (Reply 2):
That's a total of 50,000 pax a year, or 136 and some a day. Hopefully there is a significant numbers of pax from Central America to Japan as well, otherwise the day of a non-stop may be far off, even on a 3x or 4x weekly schedule.

I was wondering that as well. Then again, could such a flight be used for connections to other Asian countries? For instance, there is a sizeable S. Korean population in the region.



What do I know, I'm just an 'immature troublemaker with only a passing interest in aviation' (or so they say)
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 4):
I was wondering that as well. Then again, could such a flight be used for connections to other Asian countries? For instance, there is a sizeable S. Korean population in the region.

Lots of Taiwanese too (most of whom now use the TPE-IAH service by China Airlines..hence the reason for its success). The Tiawanese ambassador here once told me that there were appox 80,000 nationals in Central America (the legal ones anyway!)....an onward connection to TPE would help to fill the trans pac flight from SAL



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

I always thought it would be a good idea for TA to offer flights from TIJ to GUA, SAL and SJO. Now I really think it's a good idea with upcoming flights from TIJ to Japan. I wonder if TA and AM could work something out through TIJ.


Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 1):
How do Japanese make it to South America right now? Exclusively thru the US?

There is a huge channeling of Japanese customers on AC from NRT/KIX via YYZ particularly to GRU & LIM.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3340 times:

I heard that the YVR-MEX flights on JL are also packed. Are there also Japanese pax that use YVR as a gateway to go onto Central America (MEX?)


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 6):
upcoming flights from TIJ to Japan

Finally....someone is recognizing that TIJ is San Diego's solution for an airport that can serve Asia and European (someday) destinations. In addition to, of course, the existing connections through hubs in the USA.

Vote NO on Miramar in November.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

JAL has full traffic right YVR-MEX as it does JFK-GRU and in both city pairs, flights are full. The majority of the traffic, however is not local, but Japan-Mexico-Japan and Japan-Brazil-Japan. The local rights are used more for fill-up than anything else.

User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 9):
Finally....someone is recognizing that TIJ is San Diego's solution for an airport that can serve Asia and European (someday) destinations. In addition to, of course, the existing connections through hubs in the USA.

Vote NO on Miramar in November.

Thats just great. The first experience we will give visitors to San Diego is TIJ airport followed by a +1 hour wait at the border station. You can kiss that kind of service goodbye because it won't work. Plus, what happens when an earthquake or worse a bad rainy season degrades the unstable mesa upon which the TIJ airport lies.

Go ahead vote no and place your hands at the mercy of Tijuana's airport, Mexico's government and whatever airlines manage to get license to operate there (the likes of Aerocalifornia).



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

ANA doesn't fly their own metal to Canada. So everything has to be thru the US. This is probably what TACA is trying to rectify.
Because of the time zone difference, amongst Japan/North America/Central America somebody has to compromise. For TACA, it's best to redeye most runs from the US West Coast because of the time difference between there and the Central America. However, this type of schedule doesn't lend very well with connections to the transpac flights.

I am not quite sure how much market there is between Japan to Central America but it has to dwarfed by the number just going to the US, so the current situation stays. TACA should be the airline that has to adjust its schedule to NH's flights because there is no way in the world, NH is flying to any destination south of the US.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
Go ahead vote no and place your hands at the mercy of Tijuana's airport, Mexico's government and whatever airlines manage to get license to operate there (the likes of Aerocalifornia).

Are any Mexican A.net members as offended as I am with this comment? Xenophobia and racism are alive and rampant on my side of the border. I apologize.

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:25:57]

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:26:23]

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:26:46]

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

The failure of the TA-AM codeshare agreement for the MEX-LIM route notwithstanding, TA could consider flying SAL-TIJ-SAL and connect with AM's upcoming twice-weekly TIJ-NGO.

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
whatever airlines manage to get license to operate there (the likes of Aerocalifornia).

Stupid comment. May I remind you of ValuJet's very poor safety record? "Everglades crash" ring a bell? JD is grounded now thanks to the Mexican government realizing they were not up to scratch in terms of maintenance despite the fact that an evaluation by the FAA in the LAX hangar a few weeks earlier did not yield any evidence that the safety standards were not being met.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
Are any Mexican A.net members as offended as I am with this comment? Xenophobia and racism are alive and rampant on my side of the border. I apologize.

How is this racist? If you use the TIJ Airport, you are using an airport which is subject to the laws of the Mexico. That means Mexico controls the bilateral agreements under which San Diegan's may travel abroad etc. It imparts economic benefits to Mexico without any guarantee that San Diego will benefit. Just because I would prefer to have those services on my side of the border doesn't make me a racist. I don't want the economic prosperity of San Diego determined in bilateral negotiations between Mexico and third countries (e.g. China, Japan). I want those services on this side of the border -the fact that I want them here just means I love my hometown - is meant nothing against Mexico. If I were TIJ, I would do exactly as they are doing - marketing their proximity to San Diego.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
May I remind you of ValuJet's very poor safety record? "Everglades crash" ring a bell?

The primary cause of ValuJet crash in the Everglades was not a mechanical issue with the DC9, it was because the packing agent mislabeled an oxygen canister, which in turn was not properly secured and ignited on take-off. My comments about Aerocalifornia have been echoed by Mexican nationals as well.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3198 times:
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Quoting Carmenlu15 (Thread starter):
2. Ok, maybe I'm seeing too much, but... NH is part of Star Alliance, right?

You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

(as for the other thread on this topic, someone pointed out TA in the "coming soon" part of the Star alliance list on UA's web site. Well, that has since been corrected, and TA is now properly listed as a code-share partner, NOT a Star partner).


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3123 times:
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Quoting Dartland (Reply 16):
You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

At least not yet. Why couldnt it happen eventually?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3115 times:
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Quoting Dartland (Reply 16):
You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

you seem very certain of this - if we look back on this thread in five years time who can tell what the situation will be by then ?

seven and a half years in the travel industry taught me two things :

1/ how to touch-type ( not relevant to this thread- but a very hand skill
nonethelesss)
2/ never say 'never'



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
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Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
you seem very certain of this - if we look back on this thread in five years time who can tell what the situation will be by then ?

True true, never say never. I agree with you there.

To date, there is no financial benefit for TA to join Star. They would incur significant costs to get themselves "Star-ready" (e.g. airport lounge requirements, FFP requirements, allowing elite status for other Star elits, etc. etc.) with very little benefit to them since they serve a large business and VFR base that primarily (read: always) travel within North, Central, and South America. Yes, they would gain access to new customers wanting to get in to the Americas (a la NH what wants to do), but the UA code-share will already do that and given code-shares, there's really no reason to get full membership in to Star -- their home market benefit can't support the costs involved.

So -- what I'm saying -- is that TA has no intentions of joining Star today. If that balance shifts in the next 5-10 years (or if Star changed their entry requirements -- which maybe they will since they probably want TA more than TA wants them), would they reconsider it? Absolutely! But we are years away from that kind of shift (if ever), so I'm just reminding other TA fans on A.net that they should not read into the UA code-share as TA interested in Star or having anything to do with Star -- it is simply a business move to replace AA with UA (and a good business move in my mind) as a code-share partner, having little to do with Star except for it being a big part of what UA brings to do the table as a code-share partner.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17337 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3085 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
Are any Mexican A.net members as offended as I am with this comment?

Eh? There's a big difference between Mexicans and the Mexican government... For starters...one of them actually contributes to society.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3019 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 15):
The primary cause of ValuJet crash in the Everglades

The poor safety record of ValuJet is well documented and is available to anyone willing to spend a few seconds googling it.

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 15):
My comments about Aerocalifornia have been echoed by Mexican nationals as well.

And I am too quite satisfied that the Mexican authorities have grounded JR until JR gets its act together... don't you wish the U.S. authorities had grounded ValuJet before the Everglades tragedy? And again, the decision of the Mexican government to ground JR on the base of serious safety shortcomings came shortly after JR was evaluated at LAX by the FAA and the FAA failed to detect any safety issues. Maybe the FAA was not thorough enough.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 19):
TA has no intentions of joining Star today. If that balance shifts in the next 5-10 years (or if Star changed their entry requirements -- which maybe they will since they probably want TA more than TA wants them), would they reconsider it? Absolutely! But we are years away from that kind of shift (if ever)

I am in complete agreement. However, it is very interesting that they first got close to UA and now they are talking to NH. Seems TA is finding that Star carriers can be good partners for them.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3002 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
The poor safety record of ValuJet is well documented and is available to anyone willing to spend a few seconds googling it.



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
And I am too quite satisfied that the Mexican authorities have grounded JR until JR gets its act together... don't you wish the U.S. authorities had grounded ValuJet before the Everglades tragedy? And again, the decision of the Mexican government to ground JR on the base of serious safety shortcomings came shortly after JR was evaluated at LAX by the FAA and the FAA failed to detect any safety issues. Maybe the FAA was not thorough enough.

EddieDude, I will grant you that both countries have had their fair share of "bad apples" in the airline sector. The only point I was trying to make in my original post is that when US passengers fly from a US airport on a US or foreign certificated air carrier from US airport, they have certain expectations of safety and in the event of accident have recourse to US law or to the courts.

If San Diegans were to use the TIJ airport as a second airport, they would have no assurances from the US government of individual flight safety/security (however they would have assurances of Mexican Govt of safety and that is excellent-DGAC carries out its responsibility with professionalism), but the key point is that they would not have recourse to the courts or US law in the event of accident/mishap.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Those better connections that TA is looking will first benefit those with U.S. Visas and those who don't need them.
In the case TA would try to find better connections in Canada (via YVR, if they ever fly there), it'll be a similar situation, only to benefit those who don't need Canadian visas or already have one.
And now that some Latinamericans need visas for México, getting to the Far East no matter via Canada, U.S.A. or México is a hassle.
A SAL-TIJ-SAL flight with inmediate international-to-international connetions with the future TIJ-NGO-TIJ may solve the problem, specially if Méxicans won't ask for transit visas for passengers changing aircrafts @ TIJ.
The other option is to try to get a Far East airline to fly non-stop to SAL, which IMHO it would be very unlikely, since those airlines seem to be very conservative when it come to "exotic" routes. For an example see what happened to BR TPE-LAX-PTY flights, CM started LAX and suddendly BR stopped the flight instead of flying via SFO or SEA from then on.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 22):
when US passengers fly from a US airport on a US or foreign certificated air carrier from US airport, they have certain expectations of safety and in the event of accident have recourse to US law or to the courts.

If San Diegans were to use the TIJ airport as a second airport, they would have no assurances from the US government of individual flight safety/security (however they would have assurances of Mexican Govt of safety and that is excellent-DGAC carries out its responsibility with professionalism), but the key point is that they would not have recourse to the courts or US law in the event of accident/mishap.

Fortunately or disgracefully, depending on how you see things, U.S. courts do not have the least bit of hesitation to know about and resolve cases that should clearly be tried in other jurisdictions. You can be sure that, with this liberal construction by the U.S. judicial system of points of contact (lessor of the aircraft, citizenship of the plaintiff, etc.) and extraterritorial application of U.S. law for the sake of protecting its citizens, U.S. passengers need not fear that, should something happen to them while on board the plane of a foreign carrier departing from a foreign airport, they (or their heirs) will not find a sympathetic U.S. judge who will, with little regard to principles of international private law, decide that he is competent to resolve the specific controversy.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
25 Abrelosojos : = Why would Taiwanese try to go to Central America illegally? I am curious as Taiwan is an advanced high income country and most of Central America d
26 2travel2know : It's not trying to get to Central America illegally, it's staying in Centralamerica illegally. If they come for investment/business reasons and longe
27 CM767 : CM started LAX after BR dropped LAX-PTY
28 Post contains images Carmenlu15 : Granted, not in the near future, but what about a few years down the road...? I will agree that service is not exactly the best out there, but this..
29 Mt99 : Some illegal asians end up there on their way to the US. Make themselves comfortable and end up living there when they cant make it. I dont know how
30 TACAA320 : "Stupid concerns". Agreed! That's really silly. Apparently they don't.
31 Abrelosojos : = I learn something everyday. = Haha. No need to explain. Hence, US concerns are plain silly. I do think the complaints of the Asian carriers are jus
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