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Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?  
User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9239 times:

Will DL expand internationally in spring/summer 2007?

I'm under the opinion that in order to epand further they need to either:
1. convert domestic capacity to internations (e.g. with 738s or 764s); or
2. grow their fleet.

They night not be able to do either.

Do you think more 764s will leave the domestic fleet in 2007?
When does DL receive their next 2 772s? 2008 or 2009?


--cslusarc from YWG
137 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9217 times:

I think they want to, but as has been said before their fleet is limited at the moment.

Could they possibly round up any second-hand T7s? Would the B/C court allow it?



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9189 times:

You've got to think that 2006 is pretty much the end of it for now. Any new plans should come after they exit bankruptcy in 2007 and after the results of this latest route restructuring come in.

User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9165 times:

Based on current orders DL gets two more 772ERs in 2008 and three more in 2009. If nothing changes between now and then, the next two 772ERs are likely to serve ATL-PVG, which DL is expected to get approval to fly in 2008. It's possible they could use three 772s on a PVG-ATL-JNB routing, the way three 772s can serve NRT-ATL-TLV, leaving four for some combination of LGW/CDG/FRA service.

Further orders will come next year on exit from bankruptcy, possibly to include 772LRs and almost certainly to include significant quantities of 787s. But deliveries probably wouldn't start much before 2009 or 2010 (except for the already-ordered 772s) and until then expansion is limited; the domestic 764s are needed for ATL-Florida and Hawaiian markets, I don't think the domestic 763s can serve trans-Atlantic even if the cabins were converted, and the 763ER and 772ER fleets have to be close to their limits.

Used airplanes are always a possibility, if they can be found in good condition, but is anyone trying to sell RR-powered 772ERs?



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4071 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9161 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):
Will DL expand internationally in spring/summer 2007?
I'm under the opinion that in order to epand further they need to either:
1. convert domestic capacity to internations (e.g. with 738s or 764s); or
2. grow their fleet.

Latin America has been a region where DL has sought to expand, and I suspect if they decide to use more 738s or 752s there could be some growth in this area since the 738s or 752 can reach any area in the Caribbean from any of their hubs (including SLC). That said, I do see some additional Caribbean expansion from ATL, JFK and quite possibly some new routes there (MBJ, SJU are strong candidates) from SLC since Mexico has been largely successful originating there.
As for more significant overseas routes, they may tweak their schedule to Europe, but they will need more 772s very soon. I don't think they will acquire any new orders for secondhand a/c (some additional 752s are sought I hear) until after they exit chapter 11. they will take delivery of a few more 738s and the 772s are coming, perhaps even some LR models since they could then do their South Africa service without the fuel/tech stop in Senegal. The 764ERs are part of their Hawaii service from SLC.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9132 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):
Will DL expand internationally in spring/summer 2007?

Yes, the questions is with what planes of course. With the ex-CO guy running scheduling perhaps they'll be able to pull it off.

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):

Do you think more 764s will leave the domestic fleet in 2007?

Perhaps a few more than the ones already slated but not a huge amount as they are used to Hawaii, between hubs (though usually on the way to Hawaii), and the routes to Florida.

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):
When does DL receive their next 2 772s? 2008 or 2009?

2007 IIRC as they were pushed back once or twice but this was the last date I heard. They need them to support the NRT, TLV, JNB, and perhaps the China route if they are awarded it plus their LGW/CDG/FRA routes.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9091 times:

The heat may be off MIA for now. While ATL has grown 31% Internationally from 2000 to "today". MIA in 2005 was just 86% of it's 2000 size. (and down slightly ytd in 2006)

 Smile snark


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9067 times:

Leon, Mexico will be coming back on the schedule to be flown by ASA CRJ700....scheduled to start December 1.

User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9038 times:

DL still has options for expansion; consider the following:
- More 764s can be sent to Europe, replaced by increased 757 frequencies especially on the domestic side (think MCO and FLL). Also, 763ER's can serve Hawaii if need be.
- Domestic 763's can serve portions of Latin America if need be.
- Not every new destination needs a daily frequency. I expect DL to further penetrate Eastern Europe and Russia, and similar to Kiev and Budapest, I would expect them to start out at 4-5x weekly and gradually build-up to a daily service.
- Some routes may not be around next year, including ATL-ATH/VCE/NCE. If anything, the JFK-ATH/VCE/NCE could be upgraded to 764s. I'm not saying these routes aren't doing well (I have no clue how they're doing), but I'm saying that they could beef up service from one city and drop the other if need be. There are also rumors that EDI and CPH might not stick around.
- 764's have larger capacity than the 763's, so maybe in some cases frequencies could be reduced to free up aircraft. For example, maybe 2x 764 on ATL/LGW instead of the current 3 daily flights.
- DL could also convert some 757's to ETOPS if necessary. While that would be expensive, it would free up some planes currently flying to Hawaii. Additionally, they could add some smaller destinations from their JFK hub (such as LIS, GLA, BHX, etc.).

The fleet is getting stretched further, but there are still options for expansion. I think we'll see more expansion in 2007, although some of it may be reallocation based on lessons learned this summer.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8981 times:
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You can pretty much BET that there will be more international expansion if the recent spate of new services show that the company is heading in the right direction. As mentioned in a few posts above, there is a strong push into Latin America and many of these services can be accomplished through the use of domestic a/c (i.e., 738s, 757s, non-ER 763s). Some of this year's seasonals may not return next year (such as ATL-NCE) thus freeing up capacity for new destinations such as PRG, WAW, etc.

Also, the 764s are really only needed on the Hawaii flights; they can pretty much withdraw all of them from the Florida and transcon routes (which would help reduce capacity and push up fares domestically). If they do that, they can free up at least another 3-4 764s; the 764s will replace the 777s on the transatlantic routes (such as ATL-LGW/FRA/CDG, and CVG-CDG), thus freeing up the 777s for longer routes to Asia/Africa/Middle East, etc.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 3):
If nothing changes between now and then, the next two 772ERs are likely to serve ATL-PVG, which DL is expected to get approval to fly in 2008.

DL is applying for ATL-PEK, not PVG.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8875 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
Also, 763ER's can serve Hawaii if need be.

Which would be a complete waste of a very capable aircraft  Wink .

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
- Domestic 763's can serve portions of Latin America if need be.

Indeed, as DL already uses them to MBJ, CUN, and has used them to SJO, LIM and AUA IIRC. That said, it could return to LIM, perhaps 2x daily then, which would free up a 764 for a Euro route.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
For example, maybe 2x 764 on ATL/LGW instead of the current 3 daily flights.

Doubt you could cram pax from 1 763, 1 764 and 1 777 into 2 764s  Wink .

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
DL is applying for ATL-PEK, not PVG.

Doesn't matter, they won't get the rights anyway  Yeah sure .

Not sure about the whole point of the ETOPS 757s though. Of course, those would offer DL huge potential, in that they could take over thinner routes out of JFK to Europe and the thinner Hawaii routes like SLC-KOA and in turn free up 764s, but then again, IIRC, DL's 757 engines are not the most powerful, and hence performance to Europe would suffer.
Still hopeful, though.


User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8864 times:

This massive European expansion is fine and dandy and all during the summer but it will be interesting to see what Delta is going to do when all of the this summer peak travel ends in August. The winter will be the true test to see if these newly established routes are sustainable flying B767-300ERs year around to these new cities, especially the colder part of Europe...Copenhagen, Kiev, the travels in Ireland and Scotland drop like a rock during the winter...so it will be interesting to see which routes will actually remain or not.

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-05-31 00:02:28]

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8830 times:

Some of my dream new routes for Delta would be:

Edinburgh/Glasgow combo
Cairo
Warsaw
Geneva
Lisbon
Birmingham
Stockholm
Oslo
Dubai (yeah right)
Delhi
Seoul
Beijing
Hong Kong

If anyone believes that any of these routes may be started please reply, but I think I am just dreaming.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4071 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8830 times:

In addition to Latin America, there will likely be some additional flights to Canada and improved service there. SLC-YVR could go mainline for both daily flights using a 738. Also two of the four current DLC flights to YYC will likely go mainline also using a 738. Additionally the two SLC-YEG flights could also go mainline using 738s. This summer also will likely tell the fate of the SLC-YYJ flight on DLC, this could be something that the SkyWest and Delta people will decide to have as year around service. Preliminary loads on this flight as it is about to start look promising. Some additional DLC flights to Canada form the SLC hub that are likely being looked at include Lethbridge (YQL) and Regina (YQR).
The real battle for Canada service will be to Toronto/Pearson (YYZ) between DL and AC. Both will get under way in early June. Will AC further counter and offer service to YUL? This could get interesting since trans-49th service has been a very important money maker for AC.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8761 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
If anyone believes that any of these routes may be started please reply, but I think I am just dreaming.

I don't think GLA, HKG, DXB, ICN, BHX, GVA or LIS.

Add PRG.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8740 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
Dubai (yeah right)



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
Hong Kong

Well, those are 2 of the 3 routes (the third being JNB) which were heavily rumored around Delta (before the pilots informed DL of how much they wanted paid to fly the 777), as then they did heavily consider these routes from ATL, possibly using Boeing's C-market 772 version. Though whether that will happen these days is highly doubtful.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 14):
Add PRG.

Would be overdue. ATL-PRG is one of the more obvious gaps in the Skyteam intra-hub network (2 others being CVG/SLC-MEX).


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 16):
I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

Bingo. I think this is one of the first routes DL would consider. Other possibilities are the mentioned ATL-PRG, and JFK-WAW.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4071 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
Would be overdue. ATL-PRG is one of the more obvious gaps in the Skyteam intra-hub network (2 others being CVG/SLC-MEX).

SLC-MEX using a 738 or 752 is VERY likely soon.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8692 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 16):
I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

LED is fairly seasonal traffic though, isn't it? I would think NYC-LED would be a perfect 757 route if range weren't an issue. Maybe I'm underestimating demand...I dunno.

Didn't DL announce JFK-CAI shortly before 9/11? It wouldn't surprise me to see that one come around again sometime in the future, along with the previously mentioned ATL-PRG and SLC-MEX.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8692 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
SLC-MEX using a 738 or 752 is VERY likely soon.

I suspect so. AM's MEX flight were not performing that bad, IIRC, and the main issue with them was their late arrival into SLC, and FIS people not wanting to work so long, especially if the flight was delayed.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 16):
I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

I thought the US-Russia Bilateral is very limited and DL and CO already use (or at least possess in the case of CO) all available flights to Russia?


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8673 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 14):
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
If anyone believes that any of these routes may be started please reply, but I think I am just dreaming.
Edinburgh/Glasgow combo
Cairo
Warsaw
Geneva
Lisbon
Birmingham
Stockholm
Oslo
Dubai (yeah right)
Delhi
Seoul
Beijing
Hong Kong

I don't think GLA, HKG, DXB, ICN, BHX, GVA or LIS.

Add PRG.

Yep, PRG for sure could be a winner. And BHX, LIS could work, I don't see why not.

Anyone know why HKG hasn't worked out yet?

Of course there's always Australia / New Zealand. But those coming online in the next couple of years is a bit of a stretch, even for Delta.  Wink


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8665 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
ATL-PRG is one of the more obvious gaps in the Skyteam intra-hub network (2 others being CVG/SLC-MEX).

PRG has long been the only Skyteam hub that doesn't have a nonstop flight from the ATL.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8656 times:
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Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 19):
Didn't DL announce JFK-CAI shortly before 9/11?

Not just announced, but actually operated 3X weekly MD11 service JFK-CAI-DXB for a few months until 9/11 shut it down.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
Some of my dream new routes for Delta would be:

Edinburgh/Glasgow combo
Cairo
Warsaw
Geneva
Lisbon
Birmingham
Stockholm
Oslo
Dubai (yeah right)
Delhi
Seoul
Beijing
Hong Kong

Of that list, they obviously really want PEK but WAW is probably the only other one that is a strong possibility. DXB would have been on the high possibility list if EK did not have twice (soon to be 3X) daily service already between DXB and JFK...

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Doesn't matter, they won't get the rights anyway .

Why? I think they have a decent shot at it if the DOT is in the mood for a new carrier offering service from an underserved part of the country....


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8622 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 23):
Why? I think they have a decent shot at it if the DOT is in the mood for a new carrier offering service from an underserved part of the country....

That didn't work out many years ago when DL still applied for China service from CVG and JFK, and when DL could have done just that last year, it was suddenly about competition, not new markets, and ever since that decision, I have lost my believe that DL will ever get access to China, unless it's through a merger with NW. But I don't expect any support in this case from the DOT, next time it will probably be just about competition again  Yeah sure .


25 Carpethead : Perhaps SQ a year or two down the line as the 773ERs come on line. Instead of replacing the bigger 744, they could replace some of the 'old' 772s fro
26 Exusair : Look for a snowbird pattern for aircraft deployment. Europe in Summer. South America and Hawaii (and new markets) in winter. The winter shift in flyin
27 RwSEA : HKG is out of range from ATL with DL's current fleet. JFK-HKG could work, but there is much more competition (CO, CX).
28 SLCUT2777 : For some reason I think that a US flag carrier to MEX form SLC will work substantially better not to mention the time. AM gave up on it very quickly,
29 LipeGIG : Unfortantly not, Brazil keep all airports under the bilateral agreement. There is a plan on Congress that will allow additional frequencies to places
30 EddieDude : Let's hope so. That would be a great addition.
31 Centrair : Hopefully they can get some more planes and start expanding in Asia. We have almost every US major flying across the Atlantic and the European Compone
32 EddieDude : I agree that ICN is probably a destination they should serve.
33 Centrair : In fact I think that if DL starts an Asian expansion, they should do ICN first and take advantage of the Korean Air relationship to feed passengers o
34 SLCUT2777 : SLC really lacks the O&D right now for such Asian routes and at best would be fourth on DLs list after ATL, JFK and LAX for such flights. But that be
35 SLCUT2777 : A 767-300ER. The non-ERs lack the range for Asia but could handle Central America and the Caribbean a well as northern South America from SLC.
36 RwSEA : Question: Can the domestic 763 (non-ER version) make it from LAX to Hawaii?
37 OH-LGA : I think I could see DXB and CAI returning to the DL network... dunno about OSL or ARN - seasonal for summer perhaps, but otherwise unlikely because wi
38 DL787932ER : Range-wise, sure, that route's only 2200nm, but it needs at least ETOPS 180, and I don't know that the domestic 763s are capable of ETOPS or whether
39 MAH4546 : Atlanta-Leon, Mexico will be re-introduced in December, daily ASA CRJ. ASA will also supplement (and during parts of the year replace) mainline servic
40 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Still hoping for DL to launch ATL-HMO and/or SLC-HMO, the market should be there. Also, CVG might actually see a few more international routes, even i
41 Yellowtail : Well wanting to be and actually be able to do it are two different things. DL is having a tough time in MID, BZE, SAP and a few other places. They tr
42 Incitatus : Massport is actually preventing Delta from piling further losses. Zero chance of success. It is more likely that Delta abandons the nonstop to Rio th
43 DAL767400ER : And you base this on what?!? The rooms are already there for FIS at Terminal A, it is just the equipment and employees that need to be added. Also, M
44 ArtieFufkin : What's this supposed to mean?
45 ArtieFufkin : We've past the wanting stage. The die is cast. Delta will have the ASMs in place this year to surpass CO in size. They have a PR out stating so. If y
46 ArtieFufkin : I think he must mean Delta's agents aren't savvy enough to run a cocaine smuggling operation at their Latin America gateway? Or maybe they need to pr
47 MastaHanky : AM ran SLC-HMO a couple of times a week at one time, didn't they? Any idea how that route did? I'm assuming it was pulled at the same time at MEX bec
48 Yellowtail : There was a previous thread about this some months ago. Delta unlike AA and CO do ZERO local marketing and depend solely on the American traffic, whi
49 DAL767400ER : Yes, they did, with MD-87s, once or twice weekly, IIRC. It was actually pulled earlier than MEX, though it was indeed the same deal with the late arr
50 Post contains images Yellowtail : Careful. Careful. We don't want to get into a political thing here. Need I not remind you of the numerous scandals in the American system these days.
51 ArtieFufkin : Different marketing for different markets. Delta relies on US originating tourists coming from secondary markets. Not ethnic consolidators and the dis
52 MAH4546 : Because we all know how many people fly between EVV and LIR. AA does fly both DFW-LIR and DFW-EVV, although the EVV flight arrives about 10 minutes t
53 ArtieFufkin : Of course Mark you know that was just one small market. Mutiplied over scores of similar markets. It's not the be all and end all. Just a big part of
54 MAH4546 : I never said anything about Delta struggling on all route, I am sure they do great on most. There are certain ones, however, that are struggling, and
55 LipeGIG : Mr. Didier, South America Director for DL informed in feb/06 that the loads on the ATL-GIG surprised DL (and Business Class even more). I don't think
56 ArtieFufkin : Delta has a bright future in Latin America. Long term trends put pressure on AA, not Delta. Consider Latin Americans increasingly use the internet to
57 SeeTheWorld : You got that right! For a new carrier designation, DL would probably have the inside track whether it be PEK or PVG. If you review the docket, their
58 Post contains images B777-700 : I hear they are looking at Eastern Europe. LED has been mentioned. Other cities I've heard that are being looked at: PEK, (obviously) CAI/DXB, and PR
59 Incitatus : A few dates with unavailable seats is not an indication of a flight being profitable - much less dates smack in the center of peak season. Any airlin
60 Yellowtail : What ETHNIC consolidators??????, The biggest consolidators are In the US......the cheaper tickets are bought in US....when I buy a CO ticket originat
61 FlyPNS1 : Since when is July a travel peak for travel between the US and Rio? DL has cancelled the flight on select days because DL is stretched thin on planes
62 B777-700 : That's funny. I just looked thru the schedules and I havent noticed one canceled DL61. Where do you get that information from? Uh huh. It's a schedul
63 Xkorpyoh : has anybody noticed that the DEC launch of the ATL-DKR-JNB has been changed to a 763ER? Where are they using that 777 then?
64 Coa747 : Delta's European expansion oppertunities out of JFK are limited. They don't have the feed from a major hub like Continental does out of EWR. This mean
65 Exusair : COA 757 seats 16/156 DAL 767 seats 36/173 Not that big of a difference in seating. The additional cost of operating a 767 is offset by the cargo reve
66 AirMailer : Maybe I'm misreading this, but according to their websites Continental has 58 757s and Delta has 121 757s. Wouldn't that put Delta in a better positi
67 Yellowtail : Maybe I am wrong, I believe part of this problem is the fact that most of DL 757's are ETOPS certified....
68 SLCUT2777 : LAX would be a better bet since there is a strong feed in there from SLC as well as ATL. LAX in my observation actually has a better feed into it fro
69 YOW : Hopefully DL will look at adding some more Canada-JFK Dash 8 feeder routes in 2007. Potential markets could include YXU, YOW, YHM, YKF, YQB and YSJ.
70 Panamair : Funny, only the flight listing on the reservations screen at delta.com shows it operating with the 763ER; everything else shows the 777 (including th
71 Gigneil : What? Delta has acquired no 757s from ATA, and if they wanted to ETOPS their PW powered ones they easily could. N
72 AirMailer : I think that it was CO that acquired 757s from ATA not DL. Would a flight from JFK to BDA or AUA have to be ETOPS certified (thinking about old Song
73 Panamair : Where do you think N750AT, N751AT, N752AT, N757AT came from? These were all ex-SQ birds (757-212) that went through ATA before being placed with DL.
74 RobertS975 : No, these routes can be done with standard overwater aircraft. No need for ETOPS certification.
75 Yellowtail : Lots of islands along the way, so no ETOPS necessary...
76 EddieDude : This is actually irrelevant for purposes of DL market penetration in LatAm because only travel originating in Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Fran
77 MAH4546 : Since pretty much always. The majority of US-Brazil traffic is Brazili originating, and July is when most Brazilians go on holiday. Varig offers non-
78 ArtieFufkin : Eddie I was referring to internet travel sites both in the US and in Latin America. These booking are growing rapidly, not Delta's proprietary website
79 Coa747 : Continental has been operating trans-Atlantic ops with the 757 from their Newark hub for a while now. They have ETOPS certified a large percentage of
80 SESGDL : When you get the statistics on how all of the high-yielding Latin American passengers are traveling thru MIA and not ATL post it, until then, don't p
81 EddieDude : I see your point; thanks for the clarificaiton. I guess it is mostly Latin American sites because not all of the U.S. ones allow payment with a non-U
82 Gigneil : Just FYI - none of those routes are flyable with a 767 of any kind from SLC. N
83 DeltaMIA : It has nothing to do with transiting passengers, but everything to do with local passengers. Even for transiting passengers it is obvious ATL is high
84 AirMailer : Simple Geography (and the U.S. Census Bureau) tells me that Georgia has 9 million residents, Alabama has 4.5 million, Mississippi 3 million, South Ca
85 Klwright69 : This is doubtful.... UA and Qantas have it covered. No offense, but this is probably the worst idea ever on a.net. UA, a powerhouse to Asia, doesn't
86 DeltaL1011man : Will DL buy any 744s?
87 RwSEA : No. They barely need the 777's size on most of their routes. The 744 is way too big for the routes DL currently flies, or could potentially fly.
88 DeltaL1011man : man where is the 1011s when you need them!!!!
89 MastaHanky : Sure they could! Don't forget, the plane will have a lot of extra range from the weight savings they get from only having to haul the five passengers
90 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Nope. Even if DL had the money and the demand, Cathay Pacific recently got themselves the last slots for the 744 family, so all new 747 orders would
91 MAH4546 : I never said anything about transiting passengers. I'm speaking about local traffic. Delta has the inability to capture the local traffic to the most
92 SeeTheWorld : LAX is a great O&D market to Asia and DL, UA, and AA all have significant operations at LAX. But the competition at LAX is second only to JFK, so it
93 Yellowtail : Amen. same problem with DL in BZE....CO & AA got all the premium traffic and all the FULL FARE local traffic sewn up...all the discounting occurs on
94 UN_B732 : I think JFK-LED makes sense, and will happen sooner than later. THe traffic is definitely there, at least 4 times a week. but of couse, don't forget a
95 WorldTraveler : Just a few thought on strategy… ATL is the world’s largest hub… LHR is the world’s largest international airport. DL carries 75 million passen
96 AirMailer : Wouldn't you agree that if you lived in say Jackson, Mississippi or Mobile, Alabama and had the choice of a connecting flight from ATL to some city i
97 Post contains links Nuggetsyl : Unless i am reading the dot reports wrong delta can not fly to pvg without going to Beijing first. page 2 http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p80/326841.p
98 SLCUT2777 : DEN has at least put in place the needed 16,000' runway to potentially support it. SLCs longest runways are both right at 12,000' which could handle
99 Incitatus : Maybe you should follow your own advice. Atlanta-Rio has been canceled pretty much every Tuesday from now to July 05. If it was a money maker, Delta
100 LipeGIG : Incitatus, DL cancelled 47 flights to GRU, 9 to GIG (as per Delta Brazil), 4 to EZE and 3 to SCL. GRU-ATL (one flight) April 5, 6, 7, 20 May 2, 3, 4,
101 AirMailer : Not that I fly to Rio often, but on the routes that I fly, Tuesdays are usually pretty dead. If they are seeing the same trend with Rio it would make
102 Post contains links AirMailer : Here's an interesting quote from an article published yesterday. It gives insight as to what assets Delta has at their disposal for international expa
103 ArtieFufkin : Where does an airline go if they're coming up on a 6 cent non-fuel mainline CASM? Anywhere they want to.
104 SLCUT2777 : LAX is in all seriousness the next International hub for DL to build up: As I've pointed out in other threads and above, I think DLs next build up wi
105 EddieDude : They lost precious time at LAX. They squandered a substantial portion of the inherited Western operations. Now UA and AA are going to battle to prote
106 Abrelosojos : = Asia is harder to expand rapidly because of the strong competition from Asian airlines and more limiting bilaterals. DL can easily compete with Lat
107 SLCUT2777 : I think that both Jerry Grinstien and Jim Whitehurst know that under both Allen and Mullin, DL pooched it in LA big time and lost many loyal customer
108 Hawk44 : I have heard some rumors of DL wanting to start some international ops from FLL. Hawk44
109 SESGDL : If we're talking about the same rumors, then they're rather old. Back when DL was fully into its FLL focus city, there was rumored service of FLL-CDG
110 Floridaflyboy : I'd love to see DL offering some pacific flights FROM the western part of the country. That's somewhat of a drawback, I think. They really only feed i
111 LTU932 : Yes, they can. HA will put former DL 763As into service to fly routes such as Hawaii to California. The problem with the PW2037 I believe is that tho
112 MAH4546 : Actually, they aren't old. Delta Connection has cut service to FLL heavily as they return planes. Delta Airlines themselves has been steady at their
113 Incitatus : Felipe - that says that Delta was losing buckets of money with two daily frequencies between Atlanta and Sao Paulo. It is moving one service to New Y
114 Post contains links Belizexp : Here your Answer for 2007
115 Belizexp : Loads are picking up and I did address the issue via email on a city ticket office (CTO) but I got a reply it was not cost effective. Also I saw that
116 OA412 : Can't speak for all the new Central American routes but, in the case of Managua that doesn't jive with what DL is saying which is that the route has
117 CaptinTuT : I believe that CAI and DXB are really being looked at like others said above they used to have this before 9-11. I always thought that if someone wil
118 ChrisNH : 116 responses to this thread a nary a mention of Boston. With much fanfare Delta and Massport built this grand new terminal at Logan. No international
119 SLCUT2777 : The Boston market is still VERY important to any large domestic legacy carrier, DL included. The CRJs have taken over EVERYWHERE, including large hub
120 ChrisNH : Yes, in pragmatic terms you are right: Boston IS important enough. But when you think about large 'Fortune 1000' companies, I'll bet a whole lot more
121 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Couldn't agree more . Ok, I'm biased, but who cares, I want my ATL-HAM flight back. Well, get those self-centered SOBs from Massport to allow DL to a
122 USPIT10L : I couldn't have said it better myself. I just wish we knew what cities DL was planning to serve. We now know about the nine markets ASA wants to serv
123 EddieDude : That would be really great, but I am afraid that the entry of a third carrier to the U.S.-HAM market would destroy yields and not work in terms of pr
124 SESGDL : BOS won't replace CVG internationally by any means. Offering CVG as a hub with some 450 flights daily and no international service makes the hub poin
125 SLCUT2777 : SLC seams to be doing fine w/o any international service beyond Canada and Mexico with @325 flights per day. There is talk of a few flights to Europe
126 Post contains images LTU932 : So do I. Well, as I said previously, they should not start from JFK but rather from ATL, to avoid direct competition with CO and EK. Personally, I do
127 SLCUT2777 : SLC needs a new terminal more than anything if they expect DL, AF or any other carrier to want to come in and offer flights across the pond to LGW, C
128 LawnDart : Morris Air actually made all kinds of difference in fares in and out of SLC, and DL responded effectively against them. Many people miss the fact tha
129 Post contains images Panamair : Well, not exactly...they do have Sat-only services to both CUN and NAS - the former on a 738 (just starting this month) and the latter on a Shuttle M
130 HnlBoi : DL needs to beef up the HNL market more. Flights to Asia or Sydney will do quite well. Look at the growth of Hawaiian Airlines and there flights to SY
131 Hawk44 : With US pulling their international flights and from what I have heard I think it will be only a matter of time before we see DL flying international
132 SLCUT2777 : FLL could do for DL in the Caribbean what MIA does for AA. FLL is a cruise start and end for many since all the big cruise lines dock there.
133 Hawk44 : It would also help for those passengers from the Broward area that do not want to drive to MIA for flight to South America Hawk44
134 RwSEA : True - I think FLL could be a good use of DL's extra Brazil frequency that they can't figure out what to do with. FLL-GRU has some real potential - n
135 DAL767400ER : Um, no they don't. More mainland flights, perhaps, but certainly not to Asia or Australia, HNL is simply not their turf.
136 SLCUT2777 : Especially to Venezuela and Brazil for South America. In the Caribbean, I think that seasonal service to any of the 4 main airports in the Dominican
137 Klwright69 : It is daily during peak season...
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