Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
IB Planning To Drop Most BCN Operations!  
User currently offlineEUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 313 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8407 times:

According to the news, IB would be planning to drop the 'majority' of routes which operate out of BCN, except for the BCN-MAD shuttle, due to the lack of profitability of the 'point to point' connections, said IB president Fernando Conte.

The elimination of these routes would give the new LCC airline, projected by IB and other companies, a larger growth potential.

This measure will not only affect El Prat (BCN's lovely airport name), but also other national airports, although BCN would be the most affected.

Mr Conte explained that, amid the elimination of routes, "in no case are we talking about an eventual closedown of IB operations out of BCN". Barcelona airport is the second most important in Spain, after MAD-Barajas. Since the celebration of the Olympic Games it has increased it's passenger volume over a 100%, from 10 million in 1992 to over 27 million in 2005.

The 'director plan' (strategy plan) for the 2006-2008 period concentrates on a reorganization of its operations focusing on profitability rather than growth, what will mean expanding their long-haul connections (+13%) more than the European ones (+0,7%), and reducing their domestic flights (-17%).

"The selective restructuring of the domestic market attends the internal requirements that the market demands", according to Conte.

As you can imagine, both the mayor and the regional government have expressed their concern and worry over this decision.

----- That was my domestic translation of the article posted in El Mundo newspaper.

To be honest, I do not understand a thing with IB!! Which the hell is their core business??? just watching the cash flowing in??

As a regular customer of IB (I am a Sapphire FF card holder) I am eager to understand what they are planning. For instance:

1) IB is launching a new LLC which will operate out of BCN. After the impact that Vueling has had over the IB operations, and the better service quality of most European carriers out of BCN, I am not surprised they are on a loss. In my humble opinion, they need to focus on improving their overall service before taking decisions that will oblige travellers to connect via MAD when they want to fly out of BCN with IB. Vueling is a good alternative AND GROWING, so there is obviously a demand.

2) As commented many times in the forum: isn’t IB already operating like a LCC in Europe? If it wasn’t for the FFP miles, many travellers (myself for instance) would nearly always consider a different alternative to IB. For instance, their not even cheap.

3) Regarding long-haul, I am not surprised they want to concentrate in this market (more to Latin America, I guess) as they must be profitable. Just look at the catering; the worst –and meanest- of all oneworld members (obviously, I am talking about economy, because their Business Plus is great, but you have to ask for a bank loan to pay for it).

4) Not long ago, there was an Iberia press release that mentioned that executive travellers preferred IB to all other Spanish carriers. Well, I would love to know what all Barcelona executives have to say about the latest IB decisions.

Can someone tell Mr Conte that there ARE business strategies focussed on excellence and sustained profitability that do not always mean cutting every single corner, but concentrating on SERVICE and customer loyalty!

Sorry if I seem a bit upset –to say the least- but I just cannot workout to understand what goes in through the minds of IB management.

EUROBUS from sunny Spain!


Who says airports are boring places?!
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8369 times:

MUC has already been dropped, however DE has entered the market.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8180 times:

I doubt they would drop LHR-BCN, or give the route to any new LCC airline. Surely they must make money on this route


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8158 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
I doubt they would drop LHR-BCN, or give the route to any new LCC airline. Surely they must make money on this route

Considering the competition from:
BA
BD(?)
JKK(?)
UX(?)
ZB
EZY
FR

It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8143 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
I doubt they would drop LHR-BCN, or give the route to any new LCC airline. Surely they must make money on this route

Possibly not, if you look at the massive growth of LCC services not only to BCN but also Gerona and Reus. However, the article does refer to a 'majority' of routes.

This situation seems very similar to BA's position in the UK, where full service operations will be confined to just one hub (and not BHX or MAN)


User currently offlineSkyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
To be honest, I do not understand a thing with IB!! Which the hell is their core business??? just watching the cash flowing in??

Finally, a great strategy considering the competition. IB is a hub and spoke airline and that is their core business (conecting people through a hub) and not working point to point unless it is profitable. The good thing is that Mr. Conte knows that and is working to correct it. I really don´t know why people thing IB has to keep unprofitable routes like it did when it belonged to the government. I think the plan director is a great plan and the only thing I do not like is the idea of them creating a LCC. But well, hope the best to IB as I now live in Madrid and believe it or not I haven´t use them yet on point to point flights, but will be using IB on an AA ticket to get to Paris and conect to AA to fly to the USA. Looks like I use Vueling or Spanair (as they have been cheaper) for point to point and IB as a hub and spoke. Well, just my opinion and my 2 cents on this one.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8078 times:

I just seems to me LHR-BCN is a core route for them out off BCN. there are connecting oppurtunities with oneworld partners at LHR and I guess there must be some business demand

It certainly seems pretty drastic what IB plan to do at BCN. Could their new low cost airline consider routes like BCN-MAN, BCN-BHX and BCN-EDI?

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 3):
BA
BD(?)
JKK(?)
UX(?)
ZB
EZY
FR

I think ZB only fly MAN-BCN. UX/JKK and BD dont fly between LON and BCN, at least not on a scheduled basis



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8052 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
I doubt they would drop LHR-BCN, or give the route to any new LCC airline.

I highly doubt this too, as LCC are not allowed to fly into LHR, I heard somewhere.

I understand your shock, but if it isn't making them money, why keep it? They are a business...



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 7):
I highly doubt this too, as LCC are not allowed to fly into LHR, I heard somewhere.

Getting off topic now but Virgin Express used to serve LHR as part of a deal with Sabena. Aer Lingus, who are going in the LCC direction serve LHR. I dont think their's any rule stopping LCC's serving LHR, but probably the airport would rather have more traditional, higher revenue generating traditional airlines



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
Getting off topic now but Virgin Express used to serve LHR as part of a deal with Sabena. Aer Lingus, who are going in the LCC direction serve LHR. I dont think their's any rule stopping LCC's serving LHR, but probably the airport would rather have more traditional, higher revenue generating traditional airlines

Thats probably more accurate. It must have some kind of rule though, otherwise EZY and FR would be making it home sweet home by now.
I doubt BAA or whoever will be able to do much about Shamrocks Lowco ambitions, nor BMI's slow slide into low fares, however.



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7982 times:

Isn't the new terminal that is being built meant for Iberia?


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

I think this is a sound strategic move by Iberia. If they're not making money in BCN it makes more sense to concentrate on milking their MAD operations for what they can. They can let the blood bath continue in BCN and watch their competitors loose money or break even. When someone emerges as a clear winner IB will have so much money in the bank they should be able to buy the victor for a heck of a lot less money than it would cost them to stay in the fight.

User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

IMO Iberia should consider a three-tier concept very similar to LH's one here in Germany:

- IB Mainline as hub-feeder and for the air bridge to MAD as well as some high-volume routes with good revenue potential (if there are any left)
- IB Regional on low-volume tangential routes with good average yields, bypassing the MAD hub
- IB Lowcost for high-volume routes with low yields, bypassing the hub at MAD



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7610 times:

Would they cancel the BCN-BIO-LHR-LCG-LHR-BIO-BCN daily service? or would it become low cost?

User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7565 times:

I wonder whether this would also affect the flights operated by Air Nostrum out of BCN. Personally, I always preferred using BCN as transfer airport rather than MAD, although I have never been to the new Terminal at Barajas.

User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

IB BCN-LHR, as well as VLC-LHR and surely others will still be kept, as they are feeding BA network.

Anyway, IB dropping routes in BCN means, for once, paving the way for the new IB loco, but also leaves room for Air Nostrum to operate some routes, too.

I really see Air Nostrum going the way of PGA-Portugalia operating European routes with very high quality standards on regional aircraft.

J.


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7494 times:

Quoting JJJ (Reply 15):
I really see Air Nostrum going the way of PGA-Portugalia operating European routes with very high quality standards on regional aircraft.

I think their MAH-LGW route might already qualify.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7460 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 16):
I think their MAH-LGW route might already qualify

Now that I think about it, they recently opened a VLC-LIS (CRJ-200) to counter Portugalia on the same route. I am sure they are also operating flights to LIS from other Spanish cities (BIO? SVQ?)

J.


User currently offlineEUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

Hi all!

Interesting points of view, but as a flag carrier, doesn't IB have any additional commitment to serve the second largest airport in Spain, over and above straight forward profitability reasons? I mean, if others are eating the cake, surely IB has done something wrong during the past. This is what I meant to express at the beginning, because just look at the BCN airports growth!

Some of you have refered to a similar situation in the UK. I don't know enough to form a personal opinion, as I only fly to London -either LHR or LGW- but comparing with other countries, like Germany (with FRA and MUC) or Italy with Rome FIO and Milan Malpensa, isn´t logical that IB should pay special attention to both MAD and BCN?



Who says airports are boring places?!
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7281 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 13):
Would they cancel the BCN-BIO-LHR-LCG-LHR-BIO-BCN daily service? or would it become low cost?

IB could always make it MAD-BIO-LHR-LCG-LHR-BIO-MAD if BCN (expect MAD) flights go low cost

Quoting Levent (Reply 14):
I wonder whether this would also affect the flights operated by Air Nostrum out of BCN.

I would have thought so. Some routes might go to a new LCC and Air Nostrum might take over some existing IB mainline routes



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7048 times:

Quoting EUROBUS (Reply 18):
doesn't IB have any additional commitment to serve the second largest airport in Spain, over and above straight forward profitability reasons?

No, answer in the threadstarter:

Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
The 'director plan' (strategy plan) for the 2006-2008 period concentrates on a reorganization of its operations focusing on profitability

Anyway, there are soo many new carriers and LCCs in BCN, no wonder Iberia has to reorganize their operations there, especially with IB's new LCC airline.

LCCs (and others) in BCN:

Air Baltic, Air Berlin, Air Finland, Air Madrid, Alpieeagles, Easyjet, Evolavia, Fly Nordic, German Wings, German Express, Globespan, Helvetic Airways, Jet2, Sterling, My Air, My Travel lite, Thomsonfly, Transavia...... and Vueling (of course  Wink )

Airports not that far away from Barcelona are also (little) competitors with LCCs:

Reus (Blue Air, First Choice, Jet Only, Ryanair, Transavia)....and Girona (Central Wings, First Choice, Jet Only, Transavia, Wizz air, Air Scotland, Ryanair)


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6760 times:

Quoting EUROBUS (Reply 18):
Interesting points of view, but as a flag carrier, doesn't IB have any additional commitment to serve the second largest airport in Spain, over and above straight forward profitability reasons?

In short, no.

IB has some legal commitment on routes to the islands and Melilla, but not for BCN.

Few carriers can currently afford dual hubs and worldwide coverage, so IB is now making the wise choice of putting most eggs where they're strong (big MAD hub, latin america) *and* fight the lowcosts in Barcelona on their own turf.

Also, some routes will be kept on IB mainline service for sure (LHR to feed BA, ORY, FRA, and other high-demand routes).

J.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6414 times:

To me the real question is not whether IB should leave BCN if it's not profitable for them but rather, why the largest airline in Spain cannot operate profitably out of an airport that sees 27 million passengers per year. Sounds like missmanagement is the real reason they will be reducing ops at BCN.

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3327 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6312 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 9):
It must have some kind of rule though, otherwise EZY and FR would be making it home sweet home by now.

I'm guessing it could have something to do with costs and possible delays, similar to why WN doesn't serve some airports like JFK in the United States.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):
To me the real question is not whether IB should leave BCN if it's not profitable for them but rather, why the largest airline in Spain cannot operate profitably out of an airport that sees 27 million passengers per year. Sounds like missmanagement is the real reason they will be reducing ops at BCN.

The MAD-BCN shuttle is one of IB cash cows, it's just some international flights that will be cut back in BCN.

Of course IB is to blame here but the current management has to deal with the current situation and keeping routes out of prestige is a recipe for bankruptcy.

J.


25 RAFVC10 : What a great mistake. Iberia hasn't thought about the tragic consequences that this decision will carry. Barcelona is the second largest hub of the sp
26 Drinkstrolley : They dropped LHR-AGP, I would have thought that was one of the most busiest routes!!
27 Humberside : I guess yields were bad due to the intense LCC routes there. And BA (through GB Airways) could still provide an LHR service to Malaga which IB can co
28 BCNGRO : I think IB is being too brave here. They are putting all their money in MAD and that is a risky move... From now on their financial situation will den
29 Horus : What would happen to their 3x weekly MAD-BCN-CAI-BCN-MAD A320 flights? They also operate 2x weekly MAD-CAI-MAD A319 flights. Horus
30 Post contains images EUROBUS : As we say here in Spain, you could say it louder, but not clearer! Maybe become the number1 long-haul LCC?
31 Richardw : I was at BCN at the weekend, there is development between Terminals A and B, they've altered the escalators to the bridge to the train station, Termin
32 Vatry : Ryanair and Eazy don't operate out of Heathrow for the following reasons. The airport is running at close to full capacity. As a result of this the ai
33 Bullpitt : Hi all, First of all BCNGRO I doubt very much the Puente Aereo will disapear en the near future, SVQ has had the AVE since 1992 and IB still operate a
34 JJJ : I doubt anyone at the Catalan government will care for this, it's BCN loyal IB flyers who will be annoyed once routes start closing. IMHO, they're ma
35 SunCEO : I have to say that the MAD-SVQ route has been dwindling though, most times its more expensive and now with all the hassle of public transport to T4 ma
36 Skyone : Ohh no, you forgot Northamerica including MEX, JFK, ORD and MIA. And yes, that is how a hub and spoke airline works, by conecting people through its
37 Cure : I did not read the entire thread until now, but it's very sad to watch IB slowly loosing great part of their status of "global airline"...
38 TimRees : LHR-AGP and LHR-VLC have been dropped. The Santiago de Compostella flight now operates to La Coruna. Can anyone tell me why this change was made? I kn
39 Fermarta : The VLC flight was dropped only for a few weeks. IB is now operating this route again. IB said that subsidies offered to Ryanair in SCQ made the rout
40 BCNGRO : This has been discussed a thousand times before and you know that's not the issue. Most European flag carriers (ex-flag carriers, if you want) fly to
41 JJJ : La Coruña is a more business-oriented destination. Perhaps they will eventually add Santiago again on a seasonal route.
42 Richardw : FR started STN-SCQ so IB moved LHR-SCQ to LCG.
43 IBERIA747 : Erm...what is that big thing being built at BCN then?..oh it must have been a dream then. Ohh yes! it was a dream about a new terminal being built at
44 Post contains links Dme : Dear all, According to the last news, (see http://blogs.periodistadigital.com/aviaciondigital.php, in Spanish), Iberia will reduce about 17% of its ro
45 CRJ900 : Now that IB Regional Air Nostrum officially has 8 more CRJ900 on order, perhaps these aircraft will be used on BCN services...? 86 seats ought to be e
46 Skyteam2000 : It is seems that IBERIA partners are not agree with Fernando Conte IB CEO, decition to leave BCN. El Corte Ingles, BBVA,Caja Madrid and BA are not goi
47 BCNGRO : Interesting news indeed! Let's see what happens next. High speed train: links Seville and Madrid since 15 ago. Barcelona is still wainting... Motorwa
48 IBERIA747 : You'll be welcome in Montenegro then!!
49 RAFVC10 : Oneworld alliance don't want to leave routes as ROM, MIL, FRA, PAR, LON,... in hands of other airlines. I'm working for one of the future partners of
50 Spantax : Well, I think that dropping BCN is a very very wrong decision. In fact, many of the ideas of their strategic plan are based on the false assumption th
51 Dme : Dear All, Well, I would't mind to have tollways, high speed trains, good airports with good connections with subsidized lcc airlines, ..., why?, becau
52 Fermarta : Iberia's on-time departures at MAD T4: February: 71% March: 78% April: 80% May 1st-May 10th: 86% So, what mess? Terminal 4 is working now just fine a
53 SKY1 : Vueling is a young, new airline with a low-cost structure. IB is very far away from that structure (light years, I think) VY has only a type of plane
54 EUROBUS : Please Sky1, read my initial note again ...in it's context! I don't know if you work for IB or not, but to be honest I don't care. I said, clearly -an
55 RAFVC10 : Is not nationalist propaganda. I live in Barcelona since 1992 and here in Catalonia there are a feeling of ignorance. I prefer, too, the Montenegro w
56 B707Stu : I'd love to hear more opinions about T4 and changing planes. I'm scheduled to fly to ALC via MAD from JFK. Short connecting times and from looking at
57 Post contains links and images EUROBUS : Hello B707Stu, You will find all the information you need here. Just follow my instructions: 1. Access www.iberia.com and select English in the top le
58 WINGS : Well if IB are planing on making MAD, it's main hub than one would expect that the A380 will eventually make it's way into IB fleet. If IB can not mak
59 B707Stu : Thanks very much. I checked out the site but didn't find it very helpful. I'll look again though. Muchas Gracias.
60 Abrelosojos : = What kind of subsidies do the Catalan government give to LCCs? Isn't it illegal as part of EU, or is there some kind of exemption for Catalonia? Th
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
EasyJet To Drop EMA-BCN & GLA.. posted Thu Apr 15 2004 11:14:04 by Richardw
IB To Cancel More BCN Flights posted Tue Feb 28 2006 00:38:56 by Bolu340
Airbus: "No Plans" To Drop A380 Freighter posted Fri Nov 17 2006 11:02:24 by PanAm_DC10
Gatx To Drop Leasing Unit, Will Sell 87 Aircraft posted Sat Sep 30 2006 18:50:22 by Leelaw
Air India Is Planning To Lease 12 Aircraft posted Sat Sep 23 2006 04:42:34 by Kaitak744
IB Chosen To Form Part Of Sustainability Dow Jones posted Sat Sep 16 2006 15:12:33 by Bullpitt
Is BA Looking To Drop Domestic Routes? posted Fri Aug 4 2006 10:14:28 by Drinkstrolley
Azerbaijan Airlines To Drop Kabul posted Wed Aug 2 2006 21:23:48 by 777way
Air Madrid To Fly MIA-BCN posted Wed Jul 12 2006 18:17:12 by MAH4546
IB A340 To LHR posted Wed Jul 5 2006 17:39:32 by CV580Freak