Rdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 3765 times:
So a disappointment for MAN and even more for AA. I suspect theyshould have tried harder to link with the cruise lines. The flights were not offered last winter as part of a cruise and stay package? Why not as there was a demand but all the clients had to go to London.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 3694 times:
There have been consistent rumblings about AA's opening a MIA BRU link. AA funnels quite some traffic into SN's extensive European network via its ORD and JFK flights, and a MIA BRU would reinforce this traffic. Apparently MIA BRU is ranked higher than DFW BRU, but I don't know whether that also means that it will eventually happen.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 3487 times:
Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1): So a disappointment for MAN and even more for AA. I suspect theyshould have tried harder to link with the cruise lines. The flights were not offered last winter as part of a cruise and stay package? Why not as there was a demand but all the clients had to go to London.
My guess is that yeilds on the MIA-MAN route were wrong.......the cruise line traffic is rather low yeild as well; there was probably little to no premium and biz class demand, thus the route failed. Its a shame, AA should be able to operate more Europeal flights out of its MIA mega-hub.
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2): There have been consistent rumblings about AA's opening a MIA BRU link. AA funnels quite some traffic into SN's extensive European network via its ORD and JFK flights, and a MIA BRU would reinforce this traffic. Apparently MIA BRU is ranked higher than DFW BRU, but I don't know whether that also means that it will eventually happen.
MIA-BRU has been studied forever, but chances are that it will not happen. Again, its a yeild issue: AA would have no problem filling a daily flight, but at the wrong fares with little J class demand. Citybird did MIA-BRU years ago, planes packed with $299 roundtrip pax. The SN connection could help AA on the BRU-MIA route, but is probably not enough to make the service work. Its a shame, a nonstop BRU-MIA would make my life much easier!!
Both AA and SN flew DFW-BRU......AA in the early 90s and SN for a bit more than a year before they failed. The flight was problematic, in the 1990s is operated with a handful of pax each day and on the second attempt, the SN flight was filled with low-fare pax travelling between Europe and the US west coast and Las Vegas. There is not much incentive to re-start this route.
KangarooMAN From Ireland, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 3433 times:
I heard that the 76 that was used on the MAN-MIA route in winter was along with another 76 in the summer going to be used to upgrade the BOS flight to yearound on a 763 i heard that it could be a possibilty as the route is going so well.
Roo
A/C Flown EI 146&320, MYT 763&333, WW 733&735, AZ 319&MD80, LS 146, FR 738, 2L F100, LX 320&321, A3 RJ100, FI 752 AB 738
Aacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 434 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 3371 times:
If this is true, its a shame, I never got to fly the route. But its still showing available for sale this winter season........ When will they be zeroing the flight out.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 3327 times:
Quoting KangarooMAN (Reply 6): I heard that the 76 that was used on the MAN-MIA route in winter was along with another 76 in the summer going to be used to upgrade the BOS flight to yearound on a 763 i heard that it could be a possibilty as the route is going so well.
No offence to MAN or BOS, but I would have thought AA have better uses for a B763 than MAN-BOS which can comfortably be done a B752 which is well suited to the route
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 10 hours ago) and read 3222 times:
It is unfortunate, but AA just wasn't able to make it work. bmi was very close to announcing MIA-MAN, but AA beat them to it and bmi went for Las Vegas instead. I think bmi would have been able to do much better on the route, 2-3x a week, than American Airlines. It is too bad they don't have enough equipment to open MIA now.
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5): MIA-BRU has been studied forever, but chances are that it will not happen. Again, its a yeild issue: AA would have no problem filling a daily flight, but at the wrong fares with little J class demand. Citybird did MIA-BRU years ago, planes packed with $299 roundtrip pax. The SN connection could help AA on the BRU-MIA route, but is probably not enough to make the service work. Its a shame, a nonstop BRU-MIA would make my life much easier!!
MIA-BRU has been in discussions for ages, as you mentioned. Yield is an issue, just as it hurt MIA-MAN, but as long as it can feed into SN's strong African network, AA/SN can make it work together. If the AA/SN relationship strengthens, it is a matter of when, not if, AA will start MIA-BRU. AA/SN can take advantage of high-yield connecting traffic to Africa and Tel Aviv. With a lack of anti-trust with BA, AA has no strong partner across the Atlantic. SN Brussels is in a great position to become their strong Atlantic partner, which will make flights from Brussels to Miami, Boston, and Dallas only a matter of time. If all goes well, AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.
Quoting KangarooMAN (Reply 6): I heard that the 76 that was used on the MAN-MIA route in winter was along with another 76 in the summer going to be used to upgrade the BOS flight to yearound on a 763 i heard that it could be a possibilty as the route is going so well.
BOS-MAN does very well because it is a 757. A 763 would pretty much kill the route.
BHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1286 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 4 hours ago) and read 3048 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5): there was probably little to no premium and biz class demand, thus the route failed. Its a shame, AA should be able to operate more Europeal flights out of its MIA mega-hub.
I non-revved MIA-MAN several times in late '04 and again in '05 and J class both times had less than 10 passengers in a 30 passenger cabin while the back was full. You are right though, it's a shame they could not make this work since I find MIA to be a nice alternative for Trans-Atlantic travel on AA...
Rdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 3003 times:
I do not understand airlines that have a route that is only tourist traffic keeping the premium cabin as is. Why not regrade the cabin for those routes to a economy Select with a premium cost and economy service. A lot of customers want the space but do not need the frills. this would keep the aircraft at its original configuration and make money on the " empty " business class seats.If it was a Three class ship then just keep the first class for Business and then regrade the Business to a premiumj product.Just a note the AA 757 to Boston does have premium seats but they cannot be booked just used at the airport for card members and so on...They could offer this Premium on that route and make more money. I do not see why the airlines are so concerned about regrading on different routes . if they can fill the aircraft thats what they need.
ScottieDog From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 179 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2786 times:
Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 11): ust a note the AA 757 to Boston does have premium seats but they cannot be booked just used at the airport for card members and so on
Things might have changed, but the First Class domestic cabin was pre-reservable if you had a full Y or Y2 fare. I did many bookings for travellers when I was on reservations a couple of years ago and, provided the correct booking class was used, then seat allocation at time of booking could be done. It was not restricted to AAdvantage card holders only.
B752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2727 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): BOS-MAN does very well because it is a 757. A 763 would pretty much kill the route.
I would not go as far as to say the roue would die. A good friend of mine flies the BOS-MAN-BOS route on a bi-monthly basis and on his last trip, he was talking with one of the AA managers in BOS about the route. In short, the manager said the route does well for AA, and they are pleased with its performance. Another point made was that the route could sustain larger equipment(763) for probably 3-4 weekly frequencies, with the other days working with the 752(this is based on daily passenger numbers). Of course this won't happen as AA is not keen on sending the 763s into BOS, aside from the CDG flights and I am sure AA would rather send them on routes out of ORD and DFW.
MAH, did Sabena ever fly the MIA-BRU route? I always thought they did, but was not sure.
MIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2652 times:
Quoting B752OS (Reply 14): did Sabena ever fly the MIA-BRU route? I always thought they did, but was not sure.
Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2614 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.
If this is true, a win-win for both SN and AA. Inspite of AA's participation in OneWorld, I really believe AA has some great potential with SN. First off SN and AA's route networks hardly collide, so unlike AA/BA, NW/KL, DL/AF, UA/LH, etc each airline has a vested interest in the alliance and will not step on one another's toes. Secondly, Brussels is an excellent and under-utilized connecting point for US to India services. I know Jet Airways intends to route US flights via BRU when they get authority to serve the US. Also the anti-trust problems with British and American authorities and the whole Heathrow slot issue means AA needs to pursue other options because right now AA, despite being either the #1 or # 2 US airline across the Atlantic in RPMs is not tied in very well with its European partners for connecting opportunities.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): bmi was very close to announcing MIA-MAN, but AA beat them to it and bmi went for Las Vegas instead.
Yes, MAH I recall this and was dissapointed. I thought a MIA-MAN route would have worked better in Star's network than in that of AA and One World. AA obviously offers more far connecting possibilities in Miami than the entire Star roster of carriers, but the traffic was going to be O&D based or at least European based and on that end I thought BMI had an edge.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
GayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2529 times:
AA are currently taking on more staff at MAN, with rumours of a west coast USA service in the pipeline! Hope it happens!
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2458 times:
Quoting B752OS (Reply 14): MAH, did Sabena ever fly the MIA-BRU route? I always thought they did, but was not sure.
It was put into reservation systems to start in summer 2000, but was never launched, though it was bookable.
Quoting B752OS (Reply 14): Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
BOS-MAN does very well because it is a 757. A 763 would pretty much kill the route.
I would not go as far as to say the roue would die.
I would. The route does excellent because of the type of aircraft used. If AA could use a 757 on MIA-MAN, it would have the same great results that BOS-MAN has. There is little business traffic to speak of, and the capacity of the 757 is just right to get good yields out of a low-yield market. A 763 will put too much capacity on the route and create empty business class cabins (AA isn't about to sell a 763 as all-Y). Not to mention it will mean having to take a 763 from another, more important European route. The success of BOS-MAN, allowing AA to find a perfect aircraft for the market, is why BOS-CDG may become a 757 in the near future. MIA-MAN and BOS-MAN have essentially the same exact low-yield leisure traffic with little business traffic to make a widebody with 30J profitable.
Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 18): AA are currently taking on more staff at MAN, with rumours of a west coast USA service in the pipeline! Hope it happens!
American Airlines is not opening up any route between MAN and the West Coast.
BY738 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Sep 2000, 1986 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2443 times:
what about further UK AA 757 routes ?
GLA-BOS GLA-JFK NCL-JFK (again)
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2421 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): If all goes well, AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.
thanks for the update...where would the flight commence at? JFK? MIA? ORD? DFW?
Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 18): AA are currently taking on more staff at MAN, with rumours of a west coast USA service in the pipeline! Hope it happens!
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
American Airlines is not opening up any route between MAN and the West Coast.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2371 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21): Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
If all goes well, AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.
thanks for the update...where would the flight commence at? JFK? MIA? ORD? DFW?
While it is a poorly kept secret that AA plans on flying Bombay-Brussels, it is a well kept secret where it originates. Regardless, if AA goes ahead with BRU-BOM, a third daily USA-BRU flight will be likely, and it would obviously be from Dallas or Miami. Miami offers stronger O&D and LatAm connections than Dallas, and strong Miami-originating traffic to connect in Brussels to Africa. However, it wouldn't provide significant feed to the Bombay flight like Dallas likely would.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2323 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22): While it is a poorly kept secret that AA plans on flying Bombay-Brussels, it is a well kept secret where it originates. Regardless, if AA goes ahead with BRU-BOM, a third daily USA-BRU flight will be likely, and it would obviously be from Dallas or Miami. Miami offers stronger O&D and LatAm connections than Dallas, and strong Miami-originating traffic to connect in Brussels to Africa. However, it wouldn't provide significant feed to the Bombay flight like Dallas likely would.
thanks MAH4546...
would be interesting though if they served ORD-BRU-BOM...but maybe they don't need a 2nd ORD-India flight right now...and certainly not a 2nd ORD-BRU flight...
ArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2269 times:
I'm suprised MIA would have more O&D since the Indian American population in DFW is 100K these days. And double MIA's population back during the last census. Also Zales, Telecom Industry, IT companies have a large presence in DFW.
25 MAH4546: MIA has significatly more O&D to Brussels (and Europe in general), not India, as I mentioned. Dallas wins there. The question is if the feed that a D
26 B752OS: As I had mentioned, I doubt AA would take a 763 from say ORD or DFW, and put it on a BOS-MAN flight, I only meant it could work. Agree to disagree. W
27 MAH4546: Very diverse. Brussels doesn't even have service to South Africa. There is a healthy amount of traffic form South Florida especially to Nigeria, Sene
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 709 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 900 posts, 
From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, 
From Ireland, joined May 2006, 127 posts, 
From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 434 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, 
From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1286 posts, 
From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3184 posts, 
From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Sep 2000, 1986 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
