Airlines no longer treat a returning customer as anything special. Many airlines, for example, will sell a premium seat for a flat charge at the airport counter to a first-time customer rather than holding it back to upgrade a loyal customer.
Often, when a free trip or upgrade is available, members have to pony up double the miles they expected to spend to secure it. In some cases, getting free travel may involve a fee. Several carriers now charge to book award travel over the phone rather than on the Web, and some have introduced fees for booking award travel fewer than 14 days in advance
ClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3334 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 686 times:
The word is spelled, "losing". Lose as in lost, loose as in not tight.
Quoting NWDC10 (Thread starter): Airlines no longer treat a returning customer as anything special. Many airlines, for example, will sell a premium seat for a flat charge at the airport counter to a first-time customer rather than holding it back to upgrade a loyal customer.
Sure, AS does this and I was really happy to pay my flat fee for my upgrade to First. I think it's quite a good thing. As a result of that, I have a very good impression of AS and would fly them again in a heartbeat.
Quoting NWDC10 (Thread starter): Often, when a free trip or upgrade is available, members have to pony up double the miles they expected to spend to secure it. In some cases, getting free travel may involve a fee. Several carriers now charge to book award travel over the phone rather than on the Web, and some have introduced fees for booking award travel fewer than 14 days in advance
You never get a free upgrade on QF. You always have to use points for it. You get charged more points (2,500 extra) for booking by phone. It's all about managing costs!
I choose to fly oneworld, as a member of Qantas Frequent Flyer.
Ssides From United Arab Emirates, joined Feb 2001, 3719 posts, RR: 19 Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 606 times:
I think airlines are simply realizing where the money is. Right now, leisure fares are so cheap, they know that they will get the leisure passenger if their fare is low enough -- witness AA's experiece with MRTC: they thought people would pay a slight premium for more legroom, but they didn't.
Airlines are pulling out the stops for the passengers that make them money -- the high-fare business traveler. They still have super-priority for upgrades, mileage bonuses, and other key perqs. The mid-level frequent flyers aren't getting as much, because nowadays they aren't paying as much as they used to.
Jopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 296 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 512 times:
Looks like inflations has got into miles. They give you more and more miles, but airlines are also increasing the miles needed to redeem a flight with them.
Jopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 296 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 512 times:
Looks like inflation has got into miles. They give you more and more miles, but airlines are also increasing the miles needed to redeem a flight with them.
Goingboeing From United States, joined Dec 1999, 4870 posts, RR: 26 Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 512 times:
Quoting NWDC10 (Thread starter):
Airlines no longer treat a returning customer as anything special. Many airlines, for example, will sell a premium seat for a flat charge at the airport counter to a first-time customer rather than holding it back to upgrade a loyal customer.
How DARE they actually expect to have someone PAY for a seat. Do they not realize that the airline industry is a 'not for profit' industry. IMHO, this is what everyone should be doing...maximizing the revenues. These days, too many "loyal" customers are taking advantage of the loss leader fares. Why should someone be rewarded for their butt occupying a seat many times a year, when more and more often - those people are paying the "leisure" fare?
If they want to modify it for their "loyal" customers - how about this...if the "rust" level elite paid $600 for their ticket, and the "titanium" elite paid $500, then the rust level gets the upgrade? Sound fair...reward the ones who 1)have shown "loyalty" by achieving some precious metal status and 2)paid more.
Ftrguy From United States, joined Aug 2003, 333 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 494 times:
Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 7): If they want to modify it for their "loyal" customers - how about this...if the "rust" level elite paid $600 for their ticket, and the "titanium" elite paid $500, then the rust level gets the upgrade? Sound fair...reward the ones who 1)have shown "loyalty" by achieving some precious metal status and 2)paidore.
Lets say the "Rust" level guy flies 40 segments a year and the "titanium" guy flys 120. Hypothetically they make $200 profit on the "rust" guy and only $100 on the "titanium" per segment. That equals $8K in profit for the "rust" guy and $12K for the "titanium guy. Not to mention drinks, change fees, etc he makes over 120 flights per year. The (better) repeat customer is who they are trying to make happy because he will make them more money in the long run.
Goingboeing From United States, joined Dec 1999, 4870 posts, RR: 26 Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 480 times:
Still give the upgrade to the guy who paid more for THAT flight...What's the titanium guy gonna do...work his way up in another program...that means he'll be "cowshit" level to start out there. It's kind of like unions...too many have to stay in jobs where pay and benefits are cut because the alternative is to start all over again at the bottom somewhere else.
FATFlyer From United States, joined May 2001, 4423 posts, RR: 22 Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 442 times:
Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 9): What's the titanium guy gonna do...work his way up in another program...that means he'll be "cowshit" level to start out there.
Not always, some programs will temporarily put you at a higher level if you can show you were Titanium at airline xyz and will move that business over.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
Goingboeing From United States, joined Dec 1999, 4870 posts, RR: 26 Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 418 times:
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 10): Not always, some programs will temporarily put you at a higher level if you can show you were Titanium at airline xyz and will move that business over.
And it's my opinion that even this will be changing. If you can show you were titanium on another airline, I'd expect that the powers that be will be watching what you pay for your tickets to determine whether you're business is worth it to the airline. Because while everybody likes to argue what moneymakers these FF programs are...it seems that the only moneymaking part of them are the sales to "partner" programs (Visa, Amex, etc) and that from the passenger side of things, they are not profitable at all.
Aerofan From United States, joined Aug 2004, 1475 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 399 times:
i see no reason why an airline should not upgrade a pax who is paying for it over someone who isn't. From my experience the "elite" is only travelling on their corporate discount any how
what i would like to see an airline do is to reward corporate fliers with the same level of discount on miles accrued as was gained on the corporate contract. eg. if your corportaion negotiated a 45% discount on prices - then you as the flyer only accrue 55% of the miles of the trip
FATFlyer From United States, joined May 2001, 4423 posts, RR: 22 Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 392 times:
Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 11): Because while everybody likes to argue what moneymakers these FF programs are...it seems that the only moneymaking part of them are the sales to "partner" programs (Visa, Amex, etc) and that from the passenger side of things, they are not profitable at all.
And while that may be making money from miles sales it is also part of what has devalued the programs.
With so many ways to earn points and so many points out there the airlines now have a lot of dissatisfied customers who find the points are worthless.
I expect we will see a restructuring of the programs in the next few years. A few things I expect to see:
* Higher mile levels for free tickets.
* More non-ticket ways to "spend" points including more vacation packages, hotel rooms are booming and available.
* More emphasis on points belonging to high level fliers (based on miles, segments, total revenue, etc). DL already makes available more free seats to PM fliers than the rest of the public.
Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 11): If you can show you were titanium on another airline, I'd expect that the powers that be will be watching what you pay for your tickets to determine whether you're business is worth it to the airline.
No disagreement from me on that as a possible.
I would not be surprised if airlines follow the banking industry. It has been common practice at many banks for decades to analyze the profitability of the whole customer relationship not just a checking account balance.
Customers who generate lots of profit through fees, interest, etc are more desirable. Customers who don't generate high profit or cost the bank money even if they have a large amount on deposit are less desirable.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
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