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Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?  
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1088 posts, RR: 5
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 20476 times:

Hi Guys..

Just reading a few threads on the 757...

NWA is soon or hopefully deploying 75's to Europe..
US/DL has been rumoured to use them across the pond...
CO has made the type the workhorse of its european ops using them to open new thin routes, previously not served or unlikely to ever be served..
AA has also decided to operate the type to Europe, i.e NCL (before it was decided to pull the route)

With the new Winglets being installed on a lot of these carriers 757's will the 757 now see a new lease of life ?? Will the likes of BA ever use this same strategy to utilise their 757's on Longer range thin routes (i.e the old BHX-JFK/YYZ route) ??

It seems to be that after the 757 range was discontinued, all of a sudden a lot of US airlines are re-discovering the potential this plane can offer..

Your thoughts ??

(Also, whats the chances of the 767 receiving winglets ?? )

Joe

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 20471 times:

I don't think the 767 will receive winglets...the -200 series is already too "old" to get them that it would not be economically viable. As for the -300 series, i could maybe see it but highly doubt it. And the -400 has raked wingtips if i am not mistaken (please correct me if i am wrong).

In terms of the "757 revival," I think airlines are using them to a much fuller extent than they used to. It saves fuel in some regards and not as costly to operate (less people on a 757 than a 767).



The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 20390 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
Your thoughts ??

I think you might be right. Even though IMO a 5000Nm 757 would open up even more routes. There was talks about a BBJ3 based on the 757 a few years back using extra fuel tanks. When Boeing closed the line of the 757 they got a hole in their product portfolio. The 737-900ER could do 90 % of the routes currently served by the 757.

From my understanding a 757Next generation a couple of years after the launch of the 737NG would see the 757 line continue.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
(Also, whats the chances of the 767 receiving winglets ?? )

Would the raked wingtips be a better option for the 767?

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 1):
And the -400 has raked wingtips if i am not mistaken (please correct me if i am wrong).

Correct. Wold it cost much money to retrofit the -300ER with those raked wingtip developed for the -400ER?



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1088 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 20209 times:

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 2):
There was talks about a BBJ3 based on the 757 a few years back using extra fuel tanks. When Boeing closed the line of the 757 they got a hole in their product portfolio. The 737-900ER could do 90 % of the routes currently served by the 757

There is already a lot of 757 privat e jets around, I dount Boeing would start a BBJ3 now... tho I could be wrong..

Im hoping BA will use their 757's accross the pond again one day....

Tho I dont think they have too many left ? most went to DHL I think ?


User currently offlineN801DM From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 20064 times:

Several of the privately operated 757's have aux fuel tanks in them increasing the range to around 6000 nm. It is a very impressive mod unfortunately with this mod you sacrifice payload.

Regards,


N801DM


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19898 times:

Its a very interesting situation........in recent years, actually since the 757 family was discontinued, the type is having a renaissance and now is being used in different roles. As you pointed out, the 757 is suddenly a workhorse accross the Atlantic.

The 757 is now simply being used differently than in the past...for several reasons:

1. Aircraft like the 738 and A320 have taken over many of the routes once flown by the 757, such as transcons and high demand NYC-Florida services. Why? the new types better match seats and demand and allow for increased frequency on routes.

2. Legacy carriers are looking to longer haul and inteational routes as a way to increase revenue.

3. Widebody aircraft are expensive and in short supply at the legacy carriers....we all know about CO, but DL, UA, NW, AA all have the same problems.....all have cut back on their widebody deliveries, and/or have returned aircraft pursuant to re-organization, and/or have retired older ineffecient aircraft and did not replace them.

Thus, the airlines have 757s in their fleet, they were available to open up some of these new routes, and off they went. The strange thing is that no airline was interested in ordering more 757s and that would probably still be the case; the only exception is the 753, the undiscovered money machine that did not get the attention it deserved....the men and women at CO and NW would like to have more of the type and the 753 would have been very useful for DL on ATL-FLorida routes and to AA on MIA-Caribbean services, but the opportunity was missed.


User currently offlineHAM From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19867 times:

Dutchjet,
nice summary of the issue.
i was also wondering about those 757s, especially after CO started flying them to my hometown.


User currently offlineHAM From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19837 times:

i don´t see any wingtips on the 767-400...


[Edited 2006-06-01 20:49:43]

for some reason the image doesn´t show up, sorry. but can anyone point out where those raked wingtips are supposed to be?

[Edited 2006-06-01 20:53:34]

User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19797 times:

Quoting HAM (Reply 7):
i don´t see any wingtips on the 767-400...

You mean 'winglets'...

Every wing has a wingtip....  smile 


User currently offlineHAM From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19761 times:

Gr8Circle, you´re right. but what is raked then on that aircraft´s wing?

User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19697 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Gaddis - Spot This!




Look at the triangular tips of the wings. Raked winglets are flat with a slight dihedral instead of the conventional blended winglets.

[Edited 2006-06-01 21:05:06]

User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19573 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 3):
Im hoping BA will use their 757's accross the pond again one day....

Tho I dont think they have too many left ? most went to DHL I think ?

The B757 that went to DHL all had RB211-535C engines. This engine is not ETOPS approved. BA still has 13 B757, all with RB211-535E which could be ETOPS, but are not presently maintained as such.
The aircraft that used to operate GLA-JFK was PEC and this aircraft is still in service and still has all the long haul galleys and toilets fitted, and old world traveller economy seats in the rear cabin.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12881 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19558 times:

Just being used better, they are being repositioned in their use. With the 737-800 & 900 (and soon the 900ER), along with the A-320, that covers a lot of transcon USA and long distance overland routes that the 757-200 was and still good at, but probably with slightly better ops costs. Thus 757's can be shifted to use in locations where they have an advantage over the 737 like high altitude (DEN), high temps (PHX) or where the range of the 757 is better. They can also be changed around a bit for modest distance trans-atlantic ops (but sometimes requiring a fuel stop westbound as to -200's). The 757 is also a workhorse of the charter operators, especially in Europe.

User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18553 times:

Quoting N801DM (Reply 4):
Several of the privately operated 757's have aux fuel tanks in them increasing the range to around 6000 nm. It is a very impressive mod unfortunately with this mod you sacrifice payload.

Regards,


N801DM

Thank you. I was not aware that the 757 was certified with aux fuel tanks. Do you know how many needed for that long range? The BBJ3 Boeing offered where to have 4500Nm range and I believe 3 tanks.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineBoo25 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17681 times:

BA this very month are removing all existing IFE from its 757's - not sure if they are EROPS/ETOPS rated anyhow.......

I think BA are biding their time with the 757s, they just slot in where needed, and will stay at LHR too....

BA want to get the pension crisis sorted and then order new a/c - supposedly the older A320s to be replaced first, followed by Longhaul replacements and later on 757/767 - they used to play a huge part , but are now sidelined by endless Airbus / 777's .....................


User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17273 times:

In my opinion it would seem that the 757 is now being used in a role that the 787 was created to fulfill. Perhaps the Boeing marketing for the 787 got traditional carriers thinking about the way they used their existing 757 fleets?


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16761 times:

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 15):
Perhaps the Boeing marketing for the 787 got traditional carriers thinking about the way they used their existing 757 fleets?

Well, I think that it's a couple of things.

First, CO proved -- contrary to what all the "experts" said -- that non-holidaymakers will take a 757 across the Pond, especially if it gets them nonstop to their destination or to an airport closer thereto. This really opened up the eyes of their competitors.

Second, the majors couldn't ignore CO's success in diversifying its revenue base with international flights. While B6 is cutting back dramatically on its long-haul domestic flights, folks like CO are getting substantially higher revenue per available seat mile on more-similar-than-not stage lengths by going international. (It was ingenious for B6 to go to BDA, for example. It's a shorter stage length than many Florida destinations, and $250 each way used to be considered a low fare.) DL recently put out some stats on their international expansion, and there's no doubting the yield bonus that they're getting. How do you do International on-the-cheap with minimal additional capital investment? Break out the 757s (among other things, like stop using 767-400ERs in a high-density configuration to fly ATL-MCO).


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16383 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
US/DL has been rumoured to use them across the pond

US will use them on PHL-LIS later this year.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
AA has also decided to operate the type to Europe

AA also operates 757's on BOS-MAN.

Best Regards,
MD90fan  wave 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16330 times:

Quoting N801DM (Reply 4):

Nice use of the N#.  Wink

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 13):
The BBJ3 Boeing offered where to have 4500Nm range and I believe 3 tanks.

I think you are thinking of the studied 757-200ER which was to have three aux tanks and fly 4,500 nm with a full passenger load. Actually, I don't know how many tanks were to be used, but early on, Boeing claimed a range of over 7,000nm for the 752 based BBJ3, and I believe that was calculated without winglets. Now that would have been sweeeeet!!


User currently offlineN801DM From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15617 times:

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 13):
Do you know how many needed for that long range? The BBJ3 Boeing offered where to have 4500Nm range and I believe 3 tanks.

There is a 8 tank system on all of the privately owned 757's with aux tanks the US government 757's (C-32) have a 4 tank system.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 18):
Nice use of the N#.

Thanks Boeing Nut! Love working on the jet everyday!

Best regards and Go Mavs!

N801DM
Big version: Width: 3000 Height: 2250 File size: 451kb


User currently offlinePgv From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13960 times:

Didn't US recently get a few ex-ATA 757s?


"To hell with a Ferrari...give me a Super 70!"
User currently offlineLredlefsen From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12666 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
... deploying 75's to Europe ...



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 12):
... the 737-800 & 900 (and soon the 900ER), along with the A-320, [ ... ] covers a lot of transcon USA ...

Sorry to be a wet blanked here (hah!), but having been a passenger on transcon 737 flights, I feel compelled to say that these machines were never meant to provide comfortable long-range service (eg SFO-EWR).

They were built with the assumption that a small percentage of pax would use the lavs -- which is reasonable on a 1-2 hour flight -- but on a 5-hour transcon, that assumption is no longer true. It seems that there is *always* a line at the lavs, which can really make the flight uncomfortable, especially with the new "post 9/11 security rules".

I can imagine that Transatlantic 757 flights must be similar.

I have basically stopped booking flights on transcon "slaveships" for that reason.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12618 times:

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 21):
They were built with the assumption that a small percentage of pax would use the lavs

Well...wrong. They may have been *configured* like that, but configurations can be changed, and different airlines used different configurations. It's really not correct to assume that you'll have to wait to pee on any particular aircraft; it all depends upon how that airline has equipped that ship.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12282 times:

Quoting Pgv (Reply 20):
Didn't US recently get a few ex-ATA 757s?

Yes, IIRC the last 3 that were stored at MUC



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineLredlefsen From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12186 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 22):
They may have been *configured* like that

I stand corrected. I was talking specifically about CO flights from SFO to EWR and back. I admit that's a small sample set, so I retract my broad, sweeping statement.


25 Jetjack74 : BA used the 757 on the BHX-JFK route in the mid 1990's When the 757 was designed, it was mainly designed for the high density, short/medium range hub
26 Post contains images Zippyjet : A great bird looks even spiffier with winglets!
27 Supa7E7 : OIL PRICES.... They cause airlines to shrink the aircraft they use if AT ALL possible. This makes yesterday's 767 routes into today's 757 routes. Ditt
28 NWDC10 : Sad not seeing many 747's cross the Atlantic Ocean much anymore like the good ol days. Robert NWDC10
29 BHXDTW : Yeah I know, I took this route many times whilst I was growing up, at one point it did an extension up to YYZ from JFK.... It was always nice to see
30 Post contains images 7E72004 : Can someone tell me what the difference, if any, there is between the wings of the 767-400 or 777 and the 787? In the pictures of the 787 (renderings,
31 DC10BHX : IIRC BA used to have a 763 on the BHX-JFK route which was then down-graded to the 757 after about two years. Whilst it was great to have the widebody
32 BHXDTW : Good call me to !... I love BHX Any idea why the 757-300 isnt used on transatlantic ? Is it simply the range issue ? would they be candidates for win
33 Ward86IND : If there were more operators of the -300, they would be. I believe NW is the biggest operator (and only one I can think of off the top of my head) an
34 Ward86IND : Wow! Just read another thread and I guess they're gonna put on some winglets and do it!
35 AirMailer : IMHO all they are doing with the 757 here is what SouthWest did with the 737. Direct Flight, Routes that others said couldn't generate enough revenue
36 Skymileman : I thought USairways was already using the 757 across the pond? In any case, it's probably a great use for the aircraft.
37 FiveMileFinal : Like I said in another thread, the thought of spending 7-10 hours in a 75 just breaks my head. I'm glad that I live on the West Coast and have busines
38 7E72004 : The longest i have ever been on a plane was from ATL-SEA which was on a 767. Even then i found it quite crowded.
39 BHXDTW : But who would do that ? It wouldnt make too much sense for an airline like AA to start west coast flights to LHR for instance, so I guess it would on
40 Dutchjet : Its unlikely that we will see any carrier open up lots of new transatlantic services from the west coast, with the 763ER or any other type - why? 1.
41 Supa7E7 : That's a great point. European carriers do have an advantage for that reason. UA or AA would get very little regional flow into LAX-FRA for example.
42 Post contains images MD90fan : There's NW,CO, TZ, Arkia, Condor, FI and maybe one or two others that I left out...
43 FiveMileFinal : If I'm not mistaken, Air Canada was recently flying 763s YVR-LHR on weekdays (and mixed in the occasional A343 on weekends). I see now that their non
44 Ckfred : Could raked wingtips be installed on 767-200s and -300s. It's possible. Here's why. I saw one of DL's -400s at ATL shortly after Boeing started delive
45 Planebuff : Ckfred- Wouldn't it be rather impossible for a 767 to not be able to fit into a gate because of, oh, let's say, two, three feet? I see your point, but
46 L-188 : Does make you think if we are looking at a repeat of the MD-11 Boeing cancels it then everybody discovers what a good airplane it is.
47 Ckfred : The reason that AA held off on putting winglets on the 737-800s is that the wingspan increases by 5 feet. At some airports, the five feet is the diff
48 BHXDTW : Its really an interesting situation.. tho I know a lot of MD-11's are now freighters, the type did seem to be quite a favourite, particularly in the
49 AndesSMF : I have been reading my old airplane books and reading about the issues with the 757. The 757 was meant to replace the 727, but was far more capable th
50 BHXDTW : Pardon my question but how do you figure this ? the A320 is an airbus model and the 727 is Boeing... Joe
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