MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 25959 posts, RR: 77 Posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
Delta Airlines carrier ASA has applied with the US DOT for nine routes between LAX and Mexico, with plans to operate the routes using CRJ-200 and -700 aircraft. The routes are as follows:
Eff. 01Dec06: La Paz and Loreto
Eff. 01Feb07: Hermosillo and Mazatlan
Eff. 06Mar07: Torreon
Eff. 08Mar07: Los Mochis
Eff. 13Mar07: Manzanillo and Zacatecas
Eff. 15Mar07: Culiacan
Very bold move, though with AM codeshares, it might work.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4980 posts, RR: 50 Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3214 times:
Very interesting. I think DL will do well in most of these routes. After all, LAX has a huge Mexican-American population and currently does not have non-stop service to some of these destinations. I agree that the AM codeshare will be helpful.
FlyPNS1 From United States, joined Nov 1999, 3843 posts, RR: 27 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3185 times:
There had been rumblings for a while that ASA would be making a big move into Mexico, so I guess it has begun.
Most of these routes should have higher yields which will offset the inherently higher cost of operating RJ's. It's nice to see DL take more initiative in Mexico instead of just letting AM have all the routes.
DesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3185 times:
Delta/AM seem to be entering many of the markets that Aereo California served prior to their ceasing of operations. Alaska serves the LAX-Loreto market with twice weekly service. Back in the 90's they also had service to La Paz.
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 35 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3110 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4): While the markets indeed have demand, from LA, most are ethnic markets that would be poorly served using CRJs with their limited baggage capacity.
Yeah, when people realize the washing-machine-sized boxes they were once used to sending in the bellies of 727s, 320s, DC9s, and 737s....will never fit in a CRJ.....these routes will quickly lose favor with the folks who would use it most.
But good to see Delta giving it a go.
Maybe the fact that Delta/Western once had a good presence in the LA-Mexico market might be of help....if not from the perspective of the passengers, at least from the business side, as in the experience of having been there before...? They have an idea of what these routes will entail?
Quoting DesertAir (Reply 3): Delta/AM seem to be entering many of the markets that Aereo California served prior to their ceasing of operations
There does appear to be that connection....those old AeroCalifornia passengers have had no where to go up till now, except on connecting services.
Now the DC9 were not the greatest aircraft, but they had much more payload than the CRJ. Anyone know offhand, what the exact difference?
I've heard rumors AeroCalifornia was trying to restart, with a reduced fleet....they'd better hurry up, their window of opportunity is growing smaller by the day.
AvConsultant From United States, joined Feb 2006, 1219 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3084 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 5): Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
While the markets indeed have demand, from LA, most are ethnic markets that would be poorly served using CRJs with their limited baggage capacity.
Yeah, when people realize the washing-machine-sized boxes they were once used to sending in the bellies of 727s, 320s, DC9s, and 737s....will never fit in a CRJ.....these routes will quickly lose favor with the folks who would use it most.
Very true, I'm amazed of how small the US airline industry with tight networking and airlines do not research the pro's and con's of previous service. Amazing!! Leo Mullin's pushed a lot of industry experts out years back; hopefully, that has changed.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 54 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3025 times:
All I can say is "Holy F*ck". Can't really debate whether these would be successful or not, as I don't have too much knowledge of the most markets, plus I don't know the weekly frequencies. Though at least HMO should have a good future, given AM's presence there, and MZT thanks to Delta's already existing presence there.
Kkfla737 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2956 times:
I cannot understand for the life of me why Delta allowed its inherited LAX-Mexico network from WA to be dismantled and now wants to get back in on the market so heavily? Am I missing something?????
Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12161 posts, RR: 22 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2880 times:
Quoting Lax44 (Reply 7): I thought several posts about Continental's RJ service from LAX to Mexico indicated modest success in the market.
So good that most routes were dropped and the remaining ones only operated a handful times per week.
Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 9): I cannot understand for the life of me why Delta allowed its inherited LAX-Mexico network from WA to be dismantled and now wants to get back in on the market so heavily?
Indeed a sad move. Western had a very strong Mexico network that for the most part has been near exactly copied by Alaska. Last remaining mainline route is LAX-GDL after having dropped LAX-MEX last year.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 2538 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2808 times:
Well, it's good to see a legacy carrier building up in the west again with DL's expansion at LAX. However, I still can't believe they let LAX-MEX go and now seem to want to serve every runway in Mexico from LAX.
Obviously many of these flights are geared towards O&D flights, but maybe there will be some codesharing with AS/QX to allow some connecting opportunities from the North.
That said, if DL is serious about building up LAX, they may need to look into offering more connecting opportunities on their own metal.
Latinplane From United States, joined Dec 1999, 2420 posts, RR: 18 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
JR is expected to restart operations again with 10 aircraft. I hear that they are already working full pace down in La Paz to restart operations by the middle/end of this month. Like everyone, I agree that this is a bad move. I only see JR or a Click-Mexicana entering this market.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 54 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12): Well, it's good to see a legacy carrier building up in the west again with DL's expansion at LAX. However, I still can't believe they let LAX-MEX go and now seem to want to serve every runway in Mexico from LAX.
Well, looking at the route alone, it makes no sense to have dropped LAX-MEX, and I'm still p!ssed they did, but when you consider that now AM has given up on ATL-MEX, it makes at least a bit of sense, as in simplifying intra-alliance route planning. Same with AF focusing more on JFK-CDG and DL focusing more on ATL-CDG.
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2748 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10): Perhaps the fact that present-day management is way different than the management that dismantled the LAX-Mexico network...
Not to mention that the guy in charge IS THE GUY that oversaw the success in L.A. with Western Airlines, and Delta has a huge international terminal right there in LAX not being used to its full potential.
Leo Mullin figured his whole job as a bean-counter leading Delta was to funnel everything through ATL and axe everything else. DL had a strong presence in LAX for a very long time and can still capitalize on what they have at LAX to make a worthwhile operation there, both international and domestic.
SLCUT2777 From United States, joined Dec 2005, 3701 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2679 times:
Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 16): Not to mention that the guy in charge IS THE GUY that oversaw the success in L.A. with Western Airlines, and Delta has a huge international terminal right there in LAX not being used to its full potential.
Leo Mullin figured his whole job as a bean-counter leading Delta was to funnel everything through ATL and axe everything else. DL had a strong presence in LAX for a very long time and can still capitalize on what they have at LAX to make a worthwhile operation there, both international and domestic.
Glad people are pointing this out. Mullin totally dismantled what Western had done for LAX, and he was also looking at dismantling SLC as well. LAX is likely DLs next International build-up target much as JFK has been on the east coast, and you're right to point out the network planner for DL being a veteran of both DL and CO before wasting his life for 2 years with AZ:
Quote: For that matter, Hauenstein says, Delta has a potential international hub at Los Angeles International that it barely uses today, making vastly increased flying between Los Angeles and Asia a long-term goal.
LAX is a natural for funneling traffic into smaller markets in Mexico. SLC works great for the big beach and all-inclusive destinations being a one stop location to do such, but the O&D dictates LAX would work better for the lessor markets mentioned.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 54 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2613 times:
Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 18): Now if we can get DL to take over some of routes it code shares out to Eagle at LAX.
No point in that, as most of those routes are also served by UAX, not to mention other carriers. Doesn't make sense for DL to (re)launch their DCI presence at LAX, though a switch from Eagle to Skywest might make sense.
ORD From United States, joined Jul 1999, 1315 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2550 times:
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 17): Mullin totally dismantled what Western had done for LAX,
Ron Allen actually began the cuts at LAX. In early 1995 Delta had 87 mainline departures at LAX. As part of the major route realignment that happened on May 1, 1995, LAX had its departures cut 25%, down to 65.
LawnDart From United States, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2432 times:
Quoting ORD (Reply 20): Ron Allen actually began the cuts at LAX. In early 1995 Delta had 87 mainline departures at LAX. As part of the major route realignment that happened on May 1, 1995, LAX had its departures cut 25%, down to 65.
Thank you. Say what you want about Leo (and there's plenty), but it was the clown before him that started the down-sizing of DL at LAX. And he was the clown that bought WA to begin with...go figure.
Evan767 From United States, joined Aug 2005, 2867 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2351 times:
EXCELLENT news. Glad to see some growth over there at LAX, especially to some small cities, in Mexico at that. Does anyone know what terminal these will be out of? 5 or 6? Are they just going to cram them in inbetween operations out of terminal 5?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
SLCUT2777 From United States, joined Dec 2005, 3701 posts, RR: 14 Reply 25, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2242 times:
Quoting LawnDart (Reply 21): Quoting ORD (Reply 20):
Ron Allen actually began the cuts at LAX. In early 1995 Delta had 87 mainline departures at LAX. As part of the major route realignment that happened on May 1, 1995, LAX had its departures cut 25%, down to 65.
Thank you. Say what you want about Leo (and there's plenty), but it was the clown before him that started the down-sizing of DL at LAX. And he was the clown that bought WA to begin with...go figure.
It was actually the current CEO of Delta, Jerry Grinstien that was the architect of the DL/WA merger back in 1987. but yes Ron Allen certainly was the one that started sapping service from loyal LA area customers during his tenure, but Mullin is the one who in my estimation really screwed DL up in the So. California marketplace more than anyone and UA gained on DL from 1995 on.
The DL/WA merger was one of the better airline mergers in the last 20 years, just Allen and then Mullin screwed it up royally!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
26 Laxintl: I dont believe Skywest can fly for DL at LAX any longer due to its relationship with UA. From what I recall the UA contract has clause about flying a
27 AirTranTUS: Is it just me or does it seem odd that ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST Airlines is Operating from LAX to Mexico and not Skywest? Or does it have to do with ASA's b
28 OttoPylit: Other way around. Skywest bought ASA. The reason ASA is doing to flying is because of the UA scope clause with Skywest. OttoPylit
29 FlyPNS1: Is SLC-LAX an exception because SkyWest flies SLC-LAX for Delta? In fact, SkyWest 3761 SLC-LAX is listed as boarding right now.
30 SLCUT2777: I believe that is one of the reasons why Jerry Atkin (SkyWest CEO) decided to go after ASA is that in this way he could get around tht UA clause in t
31 OttoPylit: I could be wrong, but I believe so, since its a hub for its contractor(SLC) and also a hub for UA(LAX). In any instance, its getting off topic of the
32 SLCUT2777: I'm pretty sure that is the case. Anyhow the ASA being a separate entity will help get around the UA clause and DLC can then assist DL in building LA
33 KevOC3: Would really love to see the applications, but i cant find them.. Would you please post the link. Thanks.
34 Mariner: This is the main page. http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=400232&docketid=24984 If you scroll down, you will see PDF (twice) bottom
35 OH-LGA: I think SkyWest's agreements with their major partners were re-jigged to allow some level of flexibility, otherwise they would not be able to operate
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