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AA From Miami To Recife  
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3938 times:

I was on a AA flight talking to a AA F/A. She said AA will start flying 757 from Miami to Recife, BR. Anyone heard this yet?

I wish AA would start flying back to CNF  Smile

Thanks,
Tony

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePlaneloco From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

MIA to REC would be sensational! It would only be a seven (or so) hour flight (as opposed to the 8hr MIA-GRU, and 3hr GRU-REC). The 757 would be a great intro for that route.

MIA-CWB would also be a great route for AA (okay, for me!).


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3897 times:

MAH and LipeGIG would have the most relevant information on AA's future expansions to Brazil. It has been discussed on this forum that AA is very interested on flying to Northeastern Brazil (Recife, Salvador, Natal etc) as well as Manaus and Brasilia. They would probably launch the flights tomorrow however current US/Brazil bilaterals are preventing this.

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3897 times:

IMHO REC, FOR and - to some extend - SSA are Brazilian destinations which AA could possibly be flying outside those U.S. - Brazilian bilateral allocated slots, specially if the Brazilian Tourism Ministry wants to do some local lobbying in Brasilia.
AA is to move slots from DFW-GRU 2nd daily to add more flights from MIA; but if AA strategy was to increase the seat capacity (bigger aircraft) to GRU and GIG using the existing slots, they could use those DFW-GRU slots for other new Brazilian destinations.
Once I asked if that GRU-CNF tag-on which AA had on one of its Brazilian flights to GRU counted as slots in the bilateral or not.
If tag-ons don't count as slots, One is to wonder why AA haven't added tag-ons from GRU/GIG to CNF, CWB, POA, SSA yet?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Flights to the northeast from the US would be so great. Living in Aracaju, we often had a 6 hour layover in GRU for a 4 hour flight up the coast.

The flight from Atl is generally over 9 hours. Is Miami to GRU just 8? I prefer Atlanta anyway.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 4):
Is Miami to GRU just 8?

Yes. it's an hour closer.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

Quoting Tonytifao (Thread starter):
She said AA will start flying 757 from Miami to Recife, BR. Anyone heard this yet?

AA is considering service to multiple destinations in Brazil including Recife. Until a new bilateral agreement is hammered out allocating more flights, AA will not expand to these destinations. Both AA and the United States government are pushing for Open Skies between the countries, but Brazil is loathe to give in to an Open Skies treaty that the Brazilian government (somewhat rightly) believes would seriously hurt airlines based in Brazil. Until their governments concerns are properly addressed, the bilateral agreement is likely to remain unchanged.

Hope that helps answer the question from a governmental level.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Manaus, Recife, Salvador da Bahia, Curitiba, Fortelza , Brasilia and Belo Horizonte are all candidates for service to/from MIA with AA, but first the following must happen:

1. Brazil and the US must work out an exception to the current US/Brazil bi-lateral treaties that limits and controls the number of flights and seats that can be offered between the two nations by their respective carriers. Rather than a new bi-lateral, most think that Brazil may permit some type of exception that would allow AA (and other carriers) to open up services to "regional cities".......those cities being any city that is NOT Rio or Sao Paolo. The bi-lateral, as written, would remain in effect at GRU and GIG. The problem is that, due to the bi-latereal, airlines currently put all of their capacity from the US into GIG and GRU, and nothing is left over for service to any other city. (I believe that a similar arrangement was worked out between Brazil and Portugal allowing TAP to open routes to new cities in Brazil.)

2. AA must work out an upgrade for the 757 fleet; some of the routes possibilities are at the limit of the range of the 752 and AA is looking into items such as winglets and the like to get a bit more range out of the type. In addition, AA must develop an international standard J class product for the 752s as the domestic product is not adequate and selling the flights as all-Y and using the domestic F seats for full fare pax and elite FFs (what AA does on transatlantic 752 flights) will not be adequate for the Brazilian services. AA would certainly like to increase revenue by being able to offer and sell full fare J class tickets on these flights.

Lets hope that the bi-lateral can be modified to accommodate these proposed flights: it would be a good thing for all concerned: AA gains new cities and opens up more possibilities from its MIA hub, Brazil gains in that pax will be attracted to fly into the regional airports due to direct service, and the residents of the cities benefit from direct services; many living in the NE of Brazil have no choice but to fly 4 hours in the "wrong direction" to GRU to pick up connections to the US and elsewhere.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3738 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Tonytifao (Thread starter):
I was on a AA flight talking to a AA F/A. She said AA will start flying 757 from Miami to Recife, BR. Anyone heard this yet?

One time i heard about this Tony, from DAC (now ANAC). ANAC granted extra frequencies (only to fly to Northeast) to TP and IB. AF is under conversations with ANAC and could also require some additional frequencies CDG-REC very soon. AA could take advantage of the same status for a new service MIA-REC.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
MAH and LipeGIG would have the most relevant information on AA's future expansions to Brazil. It has been discussed on this forum that AA is very interested on flying to Northeastern Brazil (Recife, Salvador, Natal etc) as well as Manaus and Brasilia. They would probably launch the flights tomorrow however current US/Brazil bilaterals are preventing this

Thanks BiGSFO, probably we receive fresh news on this flight very soon. Also we need to wait what AA will do with the 5x frequencies on GRU-DFW during middle april and november as GIG-MIA now appears during this time with only 7x weekly (AA904/905). The extra AA2980/2919 will run from Dec 1st to April 7 IIRC. But i doubt they launch a REC-MIA on april.

Quoting Planeloco (Reply 1):
MIA to REC would be sensational! It would only be a seven (or so) hour flight (as opposed to the 8hr MIA-GRU, and 3hr GRU-REC). The 757 would be a great intro for that route.

MIA-SSA is a 7h flight, to REC probably will be 6h00 - 6h30.

Quoting Planeloco (Reply 1):
MIA-CWB would also be a great route for AA (okay, for me!).

Planeloco, i have to say that it's almost not feasible (CWB is not strong on connections), and also Tam provide a good service GRU-CWB.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
AA is to move slots from DFW-GRU 2nd daily to add more flights from MIA; but if AA strategy was to increase the seat capacity (bigger aircraft) to GRU and GIG using the existing slots, they could use those DFW-GRU slots for other new Brazilian destinations.

It's something i agree 100%. I know AA has a limited 772 fleet, but they could put one 772 on GIG-MIA or GRU-DFW, allowing more frequencies to Northeast.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
Once I asked if that GRU-CNF tag-on which AA had on one of its Brazilian flights to GRU counted as slots in the bilateral or not.
If tag-ons don't count as slots, One is to wonder why AA haven't added tag-ons from GRU/GIG to CNF, CWB, POA, SSA yet?

It doesn't count as slots, remember that they keep a tag on AA950 JFK-GRU-GIG. The only reason they do not add more is the cost of establish an international service at some airports like CNF (today CNF does not keep int'l flights) where they share the demand between GIG and GRU.
And again, as Tam provide the necessary connections, why AA will fly 2h to the south (POA) just to take 50-80 pax (even CNF with a higher load, but mainly economy pax). AA do the MIA-XXX and TAM provide GIG/GRU-XXX.

IMO, AA will get 7 extra frequencies during the next 12 months to fly to Northeast and REC make all the sense: American Consulate, a good JJ base (to provide some regional connections), the airport is brand new and keep space for future improvements, new business announced recently (an oil refinery, petrochemical industries, fruits) and a good turistic destination.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

Everyone, thanks for the info.

I also heard that the reason they stopped flying the GRU-CNF was because they had a cargo contract with Iveco (Fiat) which was terminated. Any info on this?


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 9):
I also heard that the reason they stopped flying the GRU-CNF was because they had a cargo contract with Iveco (Fiat) which was terminated. Any info on this?

I remember an Airliners.net forum member (quite knowledgeable in AA operations) mentioned something about poor cargo loads as the reason why AA stopped the GRU-CNF tag-on.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

Manaus, Recife, Salvador, Fortelza, Brasilia and Belo Horizonte are mentioned on here numerous times (along with others), but what about Belem? Is Belem really that far down the list? I have yet to see it mentioned.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3420 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 11):
Manaus, Recife, Salvador, Fortelza, Brasilia and Belo Horizonte are mentioned on here numerous times (along with others), but what about Belem? Is Belem really that far down the list? I have yet to see it mentioned.

Tam begins June 1st a service FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA, is not non stop, but a daily option to fly to MIA, easier than thru GIG or GRU.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 11):
Manaus, Recife, Salvador, Fortelza, Brasilia and Belo Horizonte are mentioned on here numerous times (along with others), but what about Belem? Is Belem really that far down the list? I have yet to see it mentioned.

To be honest, who knows? This is all very abstract and so much depends on what kind of deal the US and Brazil come up with to increase airservices between the nations.

Manaus, Recife, Salvador and Brasilia seem to be the first cities mentioned.....we just dont know.


User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3400 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
Tam begins June 1st a service FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA, is not non stop, but a daily option to fly to MIA, easier than thru GIG or GRU.

I had no idea! That is great news. Thanks Felipe!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
This is all very abstract

True, true.

It would be interesting if AA could do to South America with 757's what CO did with Europe and its 757's - hitting smaller markets with direct services. I am keeping my  crossfingers  for new bi-laterals.

WorldXplorer


User currently offlineDc10s4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

It is cities like Recife that are the reasons why AA is putting winglets on B757-223ER's

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3282 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
Manaus, Recife, Salvador and Brasilia seem to be the first cities mentioned.....we just dont know.

I believe Manaus will be not on the list of exceptions due to the JJ new flight (using their frequencies). I doubt Tam will allow a direct AA flight to both FOR, BEL or MAO, seems they have protected those markets. Also Brasilia, due to the strong base of customers (and Tam on their Press Release announcing the FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA flight says "with immediate connection to BSB"), will be not included.

Recife become the first option IMO due to the fact that it's the only one very far from a gateway like GIG or GRU, without any kind of service to the US, the US consulate and connections thru JJ to SSA, NAT, MCZ, AJU and JPA.

But i agree with you " very abstract " but to let you know, our President in the end of friday afternoon made a speech in Sao Paulo saying that "Brazil need to open new gateways other than GRU and GIG to receive more tourists". ANAC has a clear order from Lula to improve flights (even trying to release additional frequencies) to Northeast and Manaus. We can expect surprises during the next 6 months.

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 14):
I had no idea! That is great news. Thanks Felipe!

My pleasure!

Airline: Tam
Plane: A32A (12C 144Y)
Timetable: JJ8074 FOR 0925 BEL 1120 1150 MAO 1250 1405 MIA 1920
JJ8075 MIA 2030 MAO 0135 0235 BEL 0535 0605 FOR 0800
Registration (designated aircraft): PR-MAG

If you have any further doubt, do not hesitate in ask!

Regards for all,

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 15):
B757-223ER's

Is there a new variant of the 757 that we dont know about?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):

I believe Manaus will be not on the list of exceptions due to the JJ new flight (using their frequencies). I doubt Tam will allow a direct AA flight to both FOR, BEL or MAO, seems they have protected those markets. Also Brasilia, due to the strong base of customers (and Tam on their Press Release announcing the FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA flight says "with immediate connection to BSB"), will be not included.

Recife become the first option IMO due to the fact that it's the only one very far from a gateway like GIG or GRU, without any kind of service to the US, the US consulate and connections thru JJ to SSA, NAT, MCZ, AJU and JPA.

But i agree with you " very abstract " but to let you know, our President in the end of friday afternoon made a speech in Sao Paulo saying that "Brazil need to open new gateways other than GRU and GIG to receive more tourists". ANAC has a clear order from Lula to improve flights (even trying to release additional frequencies) to Northeast and Manaus. We can expect surprises during the next 6 months.

There will be bi-lateral agreements......I really dont think the deal will be that TAM gets to protect whatever markets it want (say BSB and MAO) and let the US carriers (specifically AA) take whatever is left over. That wont fly as its not fair. Certain citie may be opened up for additonal traffic outside of the bi-lateral restrictions, and others wont.


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