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KLM 747 And MD11 To Get New C Class And Avod  
User currently offlineKLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14988 times:

According to the internal KLM magazine, the first 747 will be in service this august with the new Business class seats and AVOD installed, then 1-2 a month to follow. No mention of economy. Does anyone in the know have any more info or the schema for the MD11?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14959 times:

Quoting KLMyank (Thread starter):
No mention of economy

Considering the considerable gap that has opened up between the new AF Y class (e.g. B773) and the corresponding KL product, I think they ought to act decisively unless the want to be relegated to the minor leagues.


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14937 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 1):
Considering the considerable gap that has opened up between the new AF Y class (e.g. B773) and the corresponding KL product, I think they ought to act decisively unless the want to be relegated to the minor leagues.

True, it's very attractive to fly AF on long-haul if you're not on KL's A330's or 777's; the fares are the same, you end up paying only the additional airport tax for CDG.


User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14918 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 2):
paying only the additional airport tax for CDG

Well AMS is not exactly a discount airport when it comes to taxes either, but since the airport has invested massively in recent years and is now - at least IMHO - among the most passenger friendly large European hubs - I consider these charges to be more or less justified.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22731 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14765 times:

Quoting KLMyank (Thread starter):
According to the internal KLM magazine, the first 747 will be in service this august with the new Business class seats and AVOD installed, then 1-2 a month to follow.

Is this both full pax birds and combis?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14733 times:

Yeah I imagine so...although we dont have many max pax birds. The article simply states 744 fleet. THey are all run by the same unit (744, 74E and 74Y) so I can't imagine doing one without the other (except the 74Y of course!!!)

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14627 times:

The MD11 fleet is expected to start going in for the retrofit soon as well. The MD11 schedule for June-October is designed to be operated by just 9 airframes including spare capacity, so one can be sent for retrofit. During this upgrade, the cabin layout of the MD11 is to be changed, reducing the C-class cabin to just 24 seats (four rows of 6, no more middle seats) and increasing the Y-class section, even more firmly establishing the MD11 as KLM's holiday plane.

To the best of my knowledge, the seat configuration of the B744/B74E will remain identical. The cabin retrofit program should allay the persistent rumors on this board that KLM will withdraw its 5-stong B744 fleet in favor of the recently ordered 4 B773ER airframes. The B77Ws are upgrades from the planned B772ERs and are set to join the KLM fleet to accomodate further longhaul growth. The remaining B772ER and A332s to be delivered, will allow KLM to phase out the remaining 5 B763ERs.


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14550 times:

My neighbour recently travelled on KLM MD-11 to LIMA from AMS ansd declared the service and plane awful Is KLM that bad or was she unlucky

When will MD-11s be replaced


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14488 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 7):
My neighbour recently travelled on KLM MD-11 to LIMA from AMS ansd declared the service and plane awful Is KLM that bad or was she unlucky

I guess unlucky. Why did dhe think the plane was aweful? Dirty, bad IFE, bad pitch? IFE is known to be outdated on KLM, except on the 772 and a332, and the pitch is a pretty standard (for european airlines anyway) 31". If it's dirty, than it hadn't been cleaned well in AMS. My experience with KLM has always been good, nice f/a's, clean plane, and i don't really need AVOD, so the IFE was fine for me. So KLM is by no means a bad airline, also not the best in the world.Check this link out:
http://www.airlinequality.com/StarRanking/4star.htm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 7):
When will MD-11s be replaced

in 2015 will the replacement program start. Probably to be replaced by the 787/a350(or a370, whatever it will be called)

[Edited 2006-06-04 11:25:45]


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14465 times:

The retrofit program is supposed to take care of the obsolete state of the IFE on KLM's 22-strong B744 and 10-strong MD11 fleets. On the other hand, no matter how much the MD11 is despised on this board, any frequent KLM traveler will be able to tell you that the first compartment of the World Business Class on the MD11 (rows 1 and 2) is the best WBC in the entire KLM fleet.

As to the reliability of the MD11 in the KLM fleet, the aircraft does have a lower dispatch reliability rate than other widebody aircraft types with KLM, but the difference is not significant. Also, the MD11's average utilization rates have always been skyhigh and were the highest among the KLM longhaul fleet until they were overtaken by the increased utilization rates of the growing fleet of B772ERs recently. High utilization rates combined with a relatively small fleet size (10 frames only) always tends to eat into the dispatch reliability rates. I would say, however, that the perceived inferior operational performance of the MD11s is not sustained by the facts.


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14465 times:

IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service. she was angry with me because id said they were very good. She apparently preferred the F100 from LBA - schipol

I said "You should have been pleased, you were on a classic airliner" got a very dirty look cheers T.C. when was the first MD11 delivered to KLM? Howe old are the Finnair MD11?


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14446 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9):
The retrofit program is supposed to take care of the obsolete state of the IFE on KLM's 22-strong B744 and 10-strong MD11 fleets.

Isn't this only for WBC. IIRC in economy all they are doing is replacing the CRT's for LCD's, but no personal IFE. Has that changed?

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service. she was angry with me because id said they were very good. She apparently preferred the F100 from LBA - schipol

I guess she had really bad luck than, it happens. I have no negative things to say about KLM inflight. However the customer service on the ground (especially Flying Blue) leaves a lot to be desired, but that's a different matter.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
when was the first MD11 delivered to KLM? Howe old are the Finnair MD11?

KLM's have been delivered from 1993 to 1998, so they are not that old yet. They will be when they are finally replaced, but they have some life in them yet.
Finnair's are built between 1990 and 1998. Some are second-hand. (Citybird, Varig)



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14446 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service

Too bad she had a negative experience. I flew KL a few weeks ago in m-class. It was a 10hr flight. Seatpitch is only 31", and since I'm 1.83m, it was cramped. The a/c was clean, seats -besides the pitch- comfy. No PTVs, but I don't really care. It's too bad that most people can only be entertained via the means of a TV. What about a book or listen to some music? KL offered good music on the flight I must say. I also flew longhaul with PTV (NW A330), and too be honest, from 8hrs in-flight, I watched only 2hrs or so. I found the service excellent on the KL flight. Fa's were around all the time and very friendly. It's a peoples business, so she was unlucky I guess.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
when was the first MD11 delivered to KLM?

PH-KCA december 1993 "Amy Johnson", newest MD 11 is PH-KCK, april 1997 "Ingrid Bergman".


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14438 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 12):

that is nearly what i said to her about the book but she complained that IFE on a 10hr flight is important lol KL cant please everyone though ! cheers T.C.


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14430 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 13):
KL cant please everyone though !

 checkmark 


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14415 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 11):
Isn't this only for WBC. IIRC in economy all they are doing is replacing the CRT's for LCD's, but no personal IFE. Has that changed?

That is also my understanding. The upgrade to an increased number of higher quality flat screens in Y should however reinforce the quality of the IFE albeit only bit. For the WBC, and the fares that KLM is still charging, an upgrade to AVOD is more than necessary, but as for the seats, I am pretty sure that most frequent flyers are not looking forward to the replacement of the current seat by a B772/A332 type of WBC seat.


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14409 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 13):
KL cant please everyone though

Even airlines like SQ and CX have critics, so no airline can please everybody. That's ok though, as long as you please most people, and seeing the pax figures from KL (on the rise) I guess they are doing ok.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14409 times:

I like KL personally

User currently offlineLuxair From Suriname, joined Jan 2001, 848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 14292 times:

I was last week on a Flight from CYVR to AMS on the MD11 and honestly they need to change urgently their eco class seats!!! I was sitting in 35 F and my seat couldn't recline at all and all the headphone plugs around me (incl. mine) where broken (no sound and if there was a sound than it was so bad that it was not possible to listen too) I was not complaining because I was traveling as non-rev passenger but of course all the others around me did. I heard the purser tell them that the eco class seats will be replaced soon by 777 style seats with inbuild screen ect., That was one of my worstiest flights ever!!!


Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineLijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14230 times:
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I have flown on PH-KCB and PH-KCI recently and find the cabin in the back (Y-class) to be just OK for my 1.88m. No IFE, just the screens above the ailes. Flights were on-time and smooth, as were the landings. Food was good and the f/a's did a good job as well.

I really like the lay-out 3-4-2 of the MD-11 better than the T7's I took with UAL in y-class (2-5-2). Imagine the same IFE/AVOD and seats (not the seating lay-out) on a MD-11 as on a T7. What do you think passengers would choose be 'a better plane'?



Be kind to animals!
User currently offlineJrebel From Sweden, joined Aug 2000, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14143 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9):
any frequent KLM traveler will be able to tell you that the first compartment of the World Business Class on the MD11 (rows 1 and 2) is the best WBC in the entire KLM fleet.

You said it!

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
I am pretty sure that most frequent flyers are not looking forward to the replacement of the current seat by a B772/A332 type of WBC seat.

You said it again!

Johan


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12821 times:

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 19):
I really like the lay-out 3-4-2 of the MD-11

This will change to 3-3-3 (  Sad )

Quoting Luxair (Reply 18):
I heard the purser tell them that the eco class seats will be replaced soon by 777 style seats with inbuild screen ect.,

Same seats, but PTV is not sure yet.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5119 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12699 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service. she was angry with me because id said they were very good.

Amazing how that happens. When someone has an unhappy flight, then *everything* was wrong, and it's always about subjective stuff. It was DIRTY and it was NOISY and it the service was "BAD". All subjective. Something made her mad, and then she ended up hating everything. If the f/a had schmoozed her and made her happy, then chances are the rest of the stuff would never have been noticed. And anyone can have "bad" service on any airline on any day.


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12485 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 21):
Quoting Lijnden (Reply 19):
I really like the lay-out 3-4-2 of the MD-11

This will change to 3-3-3 ( Sad )

That's really sad. 3-4-2 has something for everyone. The 2-seaters tend to go first on full flights so changing to all 3-s is not an improvement.

So many people travel in pairs or with 2 children. The 3-3-3 layout has the disadvantage (when fully booked) of offering only middle seats leftovers at the end (creating islands, we say). And have you ever tried changing a passenger from an aisle to a middle seat ;-(



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12320 times:

Quoting KLMyank (Thread starter):
No mention of economy.

I hope they won't change the seats, just the upholstery. I've never flown on PH-KC* MDs, but I totally love the KL 74M in Y. Their economy is really good for long flights: nice, wide, cushy, backward tilted seats, with no PTV hardware blocking your legroom. Please just upholster them anew!

It seems that 74M and MD-11 have different seats on KL, or is it just the upholstery?

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"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
25 Vasu : Different seats... the ones in the 744M are fairly new... I think they were introduced in 2000/2001?
26 AA777 : The MD-11s Y class NEEDS to be replaced / updated/ reupholstered. I flew on one of KL's newer M11s in January and it was simply uncomfortable. The sea
27 KLMCedric : IFE is becoming more and more important for the average passenger. Considering the truckload of money KLM raked in last year, investing in placing the
28 SK601 : I don't know what 1 Y-class seat with AVOD will cost, but I do know that 1 KLM WBC seat costs €30.000,- (thirty thousand)
29 Kappel : A bit different subject, but in what timeframe is KLM looking to replace the 733's and 734's. The early 733's are already pudhin 20 years, and last ye
30 GVWOW : VS stated that retrofitting a 747 with V:PORT costs 2'000'000 pounds. edit: Added KLMCedric quote to make post sound more on-topic.[Edited 2006-06-09
31 Post contains images GlobeTrekker : I flew on all 10 of KLM's MD11's. Well having worked for KLM Aruba... what other choice did I have? Over the years KLM changed the seats on the MD11's
32 Kappel : Does MP also have 3-4-3 in coach? I suppose their 763's are 2-4-2? Thankfully I never have a problem with the 3 seats (3-3-3), because I mostly trave
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