KLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 2 Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12248 times:
According to the internal KLM magazine, the first 747 will be in service this august with the new Business class seats and AVOD installed, then 1-2 a month to follow. No mention of economy. Does anyone in the know have any more info or the schema for the MD11?
Considering the considerable gap that has opened up between the new AF Y class (e.g. B773) and the corresponding KL product, I think they ought to act decisively unless the want to be relegated to the minor leagues.
PHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12197 times:
Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 1): Considering the considerable gap that has opened up between the new AF Y class (e.g. B773) and the corresponding KL product, I think they ought to act decisively unless the want to be relegated to the minor leagues.
True, it's very attractive to fly AF on long-haul if you're not on KL's A330's or 777's; the fares are the same, you end up paying only the additional airport tax for CDG.
HAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12178 times:
Quoting PHKLM (Reply 2): paying only the additional airport tax for CDG
Well AMS is not exactly a discount airport when it comes to taxes either, but since the airport has invested massively in recent years and is now - at least IMHO - among the most passenger friendly large European hubs - I consider these charges to be more or less justified.
KLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11993 times:
Yeah I imagine so...although we dont have many max pax birds. The article simply states 744 fleet. THey are all run by the same unit (744, 74E and 74Y) so I can't imagine doing one without the other (except the 74Y of course!!!)
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11887 times:
The MD11 fleet is expected to start going in for the retrofit soon as well. The MD11 schedule for June-October is designed to be operated by just 9 airframes including spare capacity, so one can be sent for retrofit. During this upgrade, the cabin layout of the MD11 is to be changed, reducing the C-class cabin to just 24 seats (four rows of 6, no more middle seats) and increasing the Y-class section, even more firmly establishing the MD11 as KLM's holiday plane.
To the best of my knowledge, the seat configuration of the B744/B74E will remain identical. The cabin retrofit program should allay the persistent rumors on this board that KLM will withdraw its 5-stong B744 fleet in favor of the recently ordered 4 B773ER airframes. The B77Ws are upgrades from the planned B772ERs and are set to join the KLM fleet to accomodate further longhaul growth. The remaining B772ER and A332s to be delivered, will allow KLM to phase out the remaining 5 B763ERs.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11748 times:
Quoting BA787 (Reply 7): My neighbour recently travelled on KLM MD-11 to LIMA from AMS ansd declared the service and plane awful Is KLM that bad or was she unlucky
I guess unlucky. Why did dhe think the plane was aweful? Dirty, bad IFE, bad pitch? IFE is known to be outdated on KLM, except on the 772 and a332, and the pitch is a pretty standard (for european airlines anyway) 31". If it's dirty, than it hadn't been cleaned well in AMS. My experience with KLM has always been good, nice f/a's, clean plane, and i don't really need AVOD, so the IFE was fine for me. So KLM is by no means a bad airline, also not the best in the world.Check this link out: http://www.airlinequality.com/StarRanking/4star.htm
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11725 times:
The retrofit program is supposed to take care of the obsolete state of the IFE on KLM's 22-strong B744 and 10-strong MD11 fleets. On the other hand, no matter how much the MD11 is despised on this board, any frequent KLM traveler will be able to tell you that the first compartment of the World Business Class on the MD11 (rows 1 and 2) is the best WBC in the entire KLM fleet.
As to the reliability of the MD11 in the KLM fleet, the aircraft does have a lower dispatch reliability rate than other widebody aircraft types with KLM, but the difference is not significant. Also, the MD11's average utilization rates have always been skyhigh and were the highest among the KLM longhaul fleet until they were overtaken by the increased utilization rates of the growing fleet of B772ERs recently. High utilization rates combined with a relatively small fleet size (10 frames only) always tends to eat into the dispatch reliability rates. I would say, however, that the perceived inferior operational performance of the MD11s is not sustained by the facts.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11706 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9): The retrofit program is supposed to take care of the obsolete state of the IFE on KLM's 22-strong B744 and 10-strong MD11 fleets.
Isn't this only for WBC. IIRC in economy all they are doing is replacing the CRT's for LCD's, but no personal IFE. Has that changed?
Quoting BA787 (Reply 10): IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service. she was angry with me because id said they were very good. She apparently preferred the F100 from LBA - schipol
I guess she had really bad luck than, it happens. I have no negative things to say about KLM inflight. However the customer service on the ground (especially Flying Blue) leaves a lot to be desired, but that's a different matter.
Quoting BA787 (Reply 10): when was the first MD11 delivered to KLM? Howe old are the Finnair MD11?
KLM's have been delivered from 1993 to 1998, so they are not that old yet. They will be when they are finally replaced, but they have some life in them yet.
Finnair's are built between 1990 and 1998. Some are second-hand. (Citybird, Varig)
SK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 975 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11706 times:
Quoting BA787 (Reply 10): IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service
Too bad she had a negative experience. I flew KL a few weeks ago in m-class. It was a 10hr flight. Seatpitch is only 31", and since I'm 1.83m, it was cramped. The a/c was clean, seats -besides the pitch- comfy. No PTVs, but I don't really care. It's too bad that most people can only be entertained via the means of a TV. What about a book or listen to some music? KL offered good music on the flight I must say. I also flew longhaul with PTV (NW A330), and too be honest, from 8hrs in-flight, I watched only 2hrs or so. I found the service excellent on the KL flight. Fa's were around all the time and very friendly. It's a peoples business, so she was unlucky I guess.
Quoting BA787 (Reply 10): when was the first MD11 delivered to KLM?
PH-KCA december 1993 "Amy Johnson", newest MD 11 is PH-KCK, april 1997 "Ingrid Bergman".
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11675 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 11): Isn't this only for WBC. IIRC in economy all they are doing is replacing the CRT's for LCD's, but no personal IFE. Has that changed?
That is also my understanding. The upgrade to an increased number of higher quality flat screens in Y should however reinforce the quality of the IFE albeit only bit. For the WBC, and the fares that KLM is still charging, an upgrade to AVOD is more than necessary, but as for the seats, I am pretty sure that most frequent flyers are not looking forward to the replacement of the current seat by a B772/A332 type of WBC seat.
Even airlines like SQ and CX have critics, so no airline can please everybody. That's ok though, as long as you please most people, and seeing the pax figures from KL (on the rise) I guess they are doing ok.
Luxair From Luxembourg, joined Jan 2001, 743 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11552 times:
I was last week on a Flight from CYVR to AMS on the MD11 and honestly they need to change urgently their eco class seats!!! I was sitting in 35 F and my seat couldn't recline at all and all the headphone plugs around me (incl. mine) where broken (no sound and if there was a sound than it was so bad that it was not possible to listen too) I was not complaining because I was traveling as non-rev passenger but of course all the others around me did. I heard the purser tell them that the eco class seats will be replaced soon by 777 style seats with inbuild screen ect., That was one of my worstiest flights ever!!!
Lijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 557 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11490 times:
I have flown on PH-KCB and PH-KCI recently and find the cabin in the back (Y-class) to be just OK for my 1.88m. No IFE, just the screens above the ailes. Flights were on-time and smooth, as were the landings. Food was good and the f/a's did a good job as well.
I really like the lay-out 3-4-2 of the MD-11 better than the T7's I took with UAL in y-class (2-5-2). Imagine the same IFE/AVOD and seats (not the seating lay-out) on a MD-11 as on a T7. What do you think passengers would choose be 'a better plane'?
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4557 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9959 times:
Quoting BA787 (Reply 10): IFE i think. and very noisy and very dirty and bad service. she was angry with me because id said they were very good.
Amazing how that happens. When someone has an unhappy flight, then *everything* was wrong, and it's always about subjective stuff. It was DIRTY and it was NOISY and it the service was "BAD". All subjective. Something made her mad, and then she ended up hating everything. If the f/a had schmoozed her and made her happy, then chances are the rest of the stuff would never have been noticed. And anyone can have "bad" service on any airline on any day.
Lamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 23 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9745 times:
Quoting SK601 (Reply 21): Quoting Lijnden (Reply 19):
I really like the lay-out 3-4-2 of the MD-11
This will change to 3-3-3 ( Sad )
That's really sad. 3-4-2 has something for everyone. The 2-seaters tend to go first on full flights so changing to all 3-s is not an improvement.
So many people travel in pairs or with 2 children. The 3-3-3 layout has the disadvantage (when fully booked) of offering only middle seats leftovers at the end (creating islands, we say). And have you ever tried changing a passenger from an aisle to a middle seat ;-(
I hope they won't change the seats, just the upholstery. I've never flown on PH-KC* MDs, but I totally love the KL 74M in Y. Their economy is really good for long flights: nice, wide, cushy, backward tilted seats, with no PTV hardware blocking your legroom. Please just upholster them anew!
It seems that 74M and MD-11 have different seats on KL, or is it just the upholstery?