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UA To Buy 777-300ER/New Routes  
User currently offlineDc10s4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19831 times:

I just heard from a old college friend who is now in senior management with UAL. He told me UA will aquire 5 new 777-300ER's and innaugurate new service from IAD to NRT and DEL. The NRT slot will be the old AA/SJC-NRT slot moved to IAD (that one got claimed fast) and new IADDEL service.

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkip17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19800 times:

Sure hope its true. IAD-NRT is way overdue. IAD-DEL have high yields as well. This is all if what you say really happens. Great if it does.

User currently offlineBistro1200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19780 times:

I have a hard time believing that. First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips. We're talking 3x weekly for both routes at best, given that UA doesn't have 777 maintenance in IAD. Second, DEL would be far better off departing ORD than IAD. Third, DEL is not the preferred city in India at the moment. Try Bangalore or Hyderabad, where a lot of the business traffic is headed. Fourth, ANA flies IADNRT presently, right? That would be very dilutional to the ANA codeshare, as well as any UA flight.


Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
User currently offlineUAL-Fan From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19780 times:

I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19614 times:

UA has bigger problems to deal with right now to get their financial house in order before they go buying 773's. I would take this one with a grain of salt the size of Mt. Everest; while it might be nice, it seems like a ridiculously huge financial investment for a company that is still trying to get on stable ground.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19606 times:

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
UA will aquire 5 new 777-300ER's and innaugurate new service from IAD to NRT and DEL.

That sounds like the new flights are still 2 years from now. It will take at least that long to get the new builds from Boeing. But, new B-777-300ERs do have the range for IAD-NRT as it is 6753nm, using 240 minute ETOPS.

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 2):
First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips.

Good point. Perhaps they will start, then supplement the B-777-300ER service with B-777-200ERs or B-747-400s?

Quoting UAL-Fan (Reply 3):
I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Good question. Perhaps UA should ask Airbus to give them 10-12 A-340-500/-600s for these routes?


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19480 times:

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
The NRT slot will be the old AA/SJC-NRT slot moved to IAD (that one got claimed fast) and new IADDEL service.

Doubt that... AA giving up there slot? No way. I think they will use it for another westcoast route.

Quoting Skip17 (Reply 1):
Sure hope its true. IAD-NRT is way overdue.

Overdue? NH #1 is IAD-NRT and why the hell would they do that when they co-share with NH on this flight? Is demand that great for a second daily n/s?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Good question. Perhaps UA should ask Airbus to give them 10-12 A-340-500/-600s for these routes?

I was thinking that too. LMAO  rotfl  At 237-264.5$ a piece UA would have to bargin Boeing pretty damn hard to get a sweet deal to get some of these a/c. With 777 sales going good i'm sure Boeing is not needing to cut that deep to sell the a/c and slots for production.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19432 times:

I have a hard time believing this too.
First off, we have heard Tilton say time and time again, that as part of reorganization, UA will not take delivery/buy new planes until 2010, at the earliest. Second, NRT-IAD is already served by ANA with a 772ER. Both airlines are in Star Alliance and both carriers operating this flight would prove to be a complete overlapping disaster. There isn't even capacity for a 744 on this route, so why would there be 773 capacity?
Also, while DEL might happen, soon (probably out of IAD), that flight would be operated with a 744.


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19432 times:

Quoting UAL-Fan (Reply 3):
I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Agreed. They're still posting losses of about $1 billion per year. There won't be any money to buy anything until the black ink starts to flow.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19397 times:

Doesn't UA have a problem with buying an aircraft with GE engines? Isn't the GE-90-115 the exclusive engine on the B-777-300ER?

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24732 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19384 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 6):
Doubt that... AA giving up there slot? No way. I think they will use it for another westcoast route.

AA is vacating the slot... Here is an excerpt of a AA email announcement.

"The NRT slot will return to a pool to be utilized by any airline. The cities of SFO, LAX, ORD, and JFK have very tight restrictions on flights to Japan and the slot cannot be transferred."



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19384 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Isn't the GE-90-115 the exclusive engine on the B-777-300ER?

Yes you are correct on that. The GE90-115B is the only engine offering on the 773ER. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_lrproduct.html



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19332 times:

KC135,
after GE helped out on the bk financing i would bet ual would forget about that incident in sux!....any one here that has access to rich delaneys week in review???he was quoted not to long ago as saying that ual was going to get 777s by the end of the year per senior ual people!...i hope this is true



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19249 times:

UA remains a massive carrier and they WILL be ordering vast numbers of widebodies in the future. It might be worth Boeing's while to offer them a sweetheart deal on a smallish fleet of 773ER to retain them in the 777 camp, to reduce the likelihood of them turning to Airbus for the A380/A350/A370 at a later stage.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBayAreaPilot From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19219 times:

While I agree we should be very sceptical of these types of rumours, this certainly seems feasible. UA could lease the planes. ILFC has ordered 25 777-300ERs. UA might prefer IAD-DEL over ORD-DEL to avoid going head-to-head against AA on that route. Even with the NH codeshare, I'd bet there's a non-trivial number of people flying WAS-NRT on UA and making a connection. Both Mileage Plus and corporate contracts can incent people to stay on UA metal.

User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19146 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 8):
Quoting UAL-Fan (Reply 3):
I don't think they have made any $$ recently.......how do they plan to pay for this?

Agreed. They're still posting losses of about $1 billion per year. There won't be any money to buy anything until the black ink starts to flow.

Jetdeltamsy,
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????please post that link ok!......airplane financiers are no different than that of a auto financier.....to get the deal done you will do what ever it takes to get the deal done period...so ual did not post a net/gross what ever you want to call it profit in Q1...if ual or any bk carrier wants new airplanes...there will be someone out there that will finance them to get the deal done....agree that glenn is on record that ual will not get any new/used birds till who knows when but taking his word as gospel is crazy.....tomorrow is a new day and ual could get some new/used birds



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19082 times:

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 2):
First, a new fleet with only five shells does not give you 2 new daily transpac trips.

They could easily do IAD-DEL and IAD-NRT daily with only 3 aircraft. For example:

Depart IAD 12:20pm Monday, arrive NRT 3:20pm Tuesday
Depart NRT 5:10pm Tuesday, arrive IAD 4:40pm Tuesday
Depart IAD 9:55pm Tuesday (note 5 hour ground time for slack!), arrive DEL 8:45pm Wednesday
Depart DEL 1:00am Thursday (another 4 hours on the ground), arrive IAD 6:45am Thursday, ready to do the Thursday departure to NRT after another 5.5 hour ground time


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19029 times:

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????

Here's their SEC filing http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/...dcn=0000100517-06-000031&Type=HTML

Interesting to note, their operational loss was $119 million in the last quarter, but the net loss was $223 million.

Also, long term debt was at $8.85 billion. That figure excludes lease obligations.


User currently offlineJamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18993 times:

United isn't going to acquire any aircraft until at least 2009. Senior management has repeatedly stressed that until such time, the company has only 460 aircraft to work with. There are no plans for acquiring aircraft and the company's focus is on improving operating margins. Period.


United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineBayAreaPilot From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18966 times:

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????please post that link ok!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=UAUA&annual

2003 net loss: $2.8 billion
2004 net loss: $1.7 billion
2005 net loss: $21.2 billion

While I'm a UA FF and generally like the company, saying they're losing a billion a year is being kind based on their recent track record.

[Edited 2006-06-04 08:49:42]

User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18783 times:

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 19):
Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 15):
where has it been posted anywhere that ual is still posting losses of about 1bln per yer????please post that link ok!

UA&annual" target=_blank>http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=UAUA&annual

2003 net loss: $2.8 billion
2004 net loss: $1.7 billion
2005 net loss: $21.2 billion

While I'm a UA FF and generally like the company, saying they're losing a billion a year is being kind based on their recent track record.

BayAreaPilot,jamake and PHIL....
THESE numbers are based on ch11 years!!!!!!!


Lets assume that what jamake has stated (senior mgmt) is not going to get any more planes and LETS BELEIVE that quote ok.....what was the mantra that ual was spewing coming out of bk and the latest Q1 filings??????UAL IS GOING TO POST A NET PROFIT FOR THE YEAR!!!!(06)...based on all these arm chair QBs assumptions what is ual going to do with all the cash that will be making in 06???



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18760 times:

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 19):
2003 net loss: $2.8 billion
2004 net loss: $1.7 billion
2005 net loss: $21.2 billion

How the hell does an airline make $21 Billion loss with this cost cutting i hear about.


User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 18294 times:

I sure hope we will get them here in ZRH on the Star Alliance intra hub operations between ZRH and IAD or ORD, but I guess chances are not that great even considering that SR managed to fill a daily B743 from Zurich to the windy city in the past.

User currently offlineNWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 17876 times:

I like UA and i'm not putting UA down but a talking bird told me that UA will give complete controll over to AA at ORD in "exchange" AA will give complete controll over to UA at DFW. I simply don't believe this either. UA needs to start making money/get out of debt before they can do anything major like purchasing 777-300ER's. Rhumors may not mean anything but the truth and facts do. Robert NWDC10

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 17876 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 21):
How the hell does an airline make $21 Billion loss with this cost cutting i hear about.

It's kind of hard to understand, but a large portion of the loss comes from bankruptcy writeoffs and such. It's all on "paper", so to speak, the real numbers you have to look at are operational profits and losses.


25 Dutchjet : Oh yeah, this is happening......there is no proof, confirmation or source to support any of this, why is this thread continuing? Think about this - UA
26 Post contains links and images UnitedTristar : If you read this article it actually says that United wrote down a $22 Billion dollar gain for the first quarter this year. Its the paper losses and
27 OldAeroGuy : 180 min ETOPS will work just fine and I think you'll find its 5868 nm rather than 6753 sm if you look again.
28 Stitch : One advantage UA has over NH at IAD is the connecting traffic. While NH gets connecting passengers via codeshare, UA might have more flexability in sc
29 Post contains images Hiflyer : Gee...as always when it comes to an air carrier finances the partisans of other carriers jump right in.. Reply 26 answers the questions. It is the end
30 Post contains images Planebuff : You would think--they were the first airline in service with the 777--I read that United was the mother; MD-11 its father.
31 Mcdu : The last I heard Tilton say about GE was that UA had setteled all the issues with GE over 232 and was now in a position to buy from whoever gives us
32 RoseFlyer : First of all this is an unsubstantiated rumor. Some of these rumors do come true, so it is never a good idea to just flame the poster, but I'm still d
33 PNQIAD : Does any UA have aircraft (including possible future 777ER) have range to do IAD-BOM? Considering that DEL has 2 non-stops from U.S.. I would think th
34 Hiflyer : mcdu that would make sense as the follow-on to the 737 will not be avail until 2010 at the earliers which fits Tilton's timeline. AMR screwed up with
35 Post contains images N174UA : The bidding war between Boeing and Airbus for a new order from Iberia is an interesting study, which I read about in my business strategy class this
36 Dc10s4ever : To give more details - its actually 6 777-300ers that are already in production that are not being taken by another Star Alliance carrier ANA. ANA jus
37 Dutchjet : Lets see if I can understand what you are saying: UA is going to take six 773ERS that were ordered by ANA. ANA is going to sell the 773ERs to UA off
38 RoseFlyer : No Pratt & Whitney is not producing any engine for the 787. It is no surprise that United favors PW since they use to be part of the same company. It
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : here is some recent quotes from Tilton which might help.. fair use excerpt*: "ZURICH, Switzerland -- Fresh out of bankruptcy, United Airlines, the wo
40 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Well UA's pilot contract pays the same for 777 crews as it does for 747 crews. This makes the -300 more appealing then the 747 due to its fuel effici
41 Burnsie28 : I heard they will for-go their NRT slot. The Japanese government/ NRT Airport Authority (one of the two) decides who gets those slots, from what I he
42 BoeingFever777 : Who will go for the slot? I'm just suprised that AA gave it up and did not try to fill the slot.
43 Usairways85 : Airline All Nippon Airways Flight Number 2 Departure City (Airport) Tokyo, Japan (RJAA) Departure Time 06/04/2006 11:25 AM Arrival City (Airport) Was
44 Post contains images Andrej : Hello, Long term debt does not have to be a bad thing, IF a company is able to repay it. Therefore, if we are analyzing company's debt, we should also
45 SunriseValley : In my view cash flow figures are more useful in determining what UA has the ability to do. While they are generating positive operating cash flows man
46 Airbus3801 : The title of this post is very misleading. Unless it is totally confirmed by press and publicly by UA itselt, the title shouldn't be "UA TO Buy 777 bl
47 Irishpower : The 773ER's have plenty of range to make the flight. They technically could do JFK-HKG let alone IAD-NRT.
48 DTWAGENT : Couldn't they have the funding allready in their budget for next year to purchase these aircraft?? Grant it I don't know alot about how the airlines o
49 Post contains links Jetdeltamsy : Right here, Good Buddy. The profit was inclusive of extraordinary items (post bankruptcy credits). The operating loss for the kast quarter was $171 m
50 Post contains images Stitch : Never say never. Creditors were happy to give them barrels of cash in exit financing.
51 JAL : I sure hope this is true! But can UA afford it?
52 Dutchjet : The amount needed in exit financing is peanuts compared to the costs of making a major aircraft purchase. Look at the prices of widebody aircraft (an
53 BR715-A1-30 : UA has a problem with the CF6. I am willing to bet that seeing as how GE helped them out, recently, and the marvels of technology that go into buildi
54 Hoya : Are these 6 773ERS that a leasing company has yet to assign to a certain airline? Maybe instead of purchasing 5/6 773ERs, UA may lease these aircraft
55 Lufthansa747 : Yeah. Guys you're right. NH will withdraw that IAD flight and say to UA - "take the money Chicago guys - we're tired of flying our much superior 777s
56 Brilondon : I doubt that United would change from boeing to airbus for their longhaul fleet to keep fleet commonality with their present fleet. More than likely
57 Avatordon : Interesting thread - some points to consider. 1) UA will fly whenever and wherever it decides to NH or LH or anyone else, Star or not, notwithstanding
58 UA772IAD : Doesn't this go both ways though? ANA connections get more flexibility on the NRT side of operations. Nope, its a 200. I've taken the flight both to
59 777fan : Has anyone given some thought as to whether or not Tilton's comment about not buying aircraft any time soon was an attempt to leverage a better deal o
60 Halls120 : I fly on government travel to the far east once or twice a year. While I can fly ANA direct, I don't because UA's Y+ seats are more comfortable, and
61 Venezuela747 : Maybe it's time for UA to start some International flights to Europe from DEN
62 ZK-NBT : So NH is giving up 773ER slots to UA? Personally I also find this hard to believe given that NH only have a few 77W's so far and they want to replace
63 Stitch : Bermuda II keeps them out of LHR and LH seems to have FRA covered. So it's easier to just fly east 1000 miles and connect in ORD.
64 Mcdu : Then I suppose you had the inside scoop on the KWI service prior to the announcement? I work at UAL and the KWI service was not even rumored before i
65 Sebring : Because it is closest to the US, DEL is in range of some aircraft, but very few can reach BOM, and none flown by a US carrier can reach Bangalore. Ai
66 Avatordon : Going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out. Granted, IAD-NRT in and of itself does not generate enough traffic to sustain more than on
67 N754PR : In how many other places could an airline in as terrible condition as UA even still be running, let alone talk about new planes ????
68 Avatordon : That's the irony - and more analysts are coming out saying additional cost cutting is needed.
69 RoseFlyer : I am not sure about that. AA flies the 777-200ER from ORD to DEL and that is just 20 miles shorter than IAD-DEL. The 777-300ER has a longer range tha
70 HZ747300 : What happens is that they absorb the costs in one period--eating an 'intangible' loss of $21B allows them to say that they will be saving $40M a mont
71 Uadc8contrail : JETDELTA, i read it and still have not read anywhere that ual is losing 1bln....you are sugar coating this to make it looks like they are still losin
72 Nimish : Nope - There's already AA flying ORD-DEL, and AI has such plans as well, while no one is talking about IAD-DEL (not due to lack of traffic). Or at le
73 Wdleiser : Well, what if they got these planes financed..... thus enabling them to receive the aircraft which would then be making them money. How will they mak
74 Jetdeltamsy : Contrail.. i corrected my previous post to indicate an annualized loss of about $670 million, per the article i referenced. i'm hardly an arm chair q
75 Post contains images Jacobin777 : the problem has more to do with departing from the United States...AA has chosen to make the timings out of ORD better (later) so pax can connect to
76 DeltaDC9 : I think if spending money is required to return to profitability, they will spend it. Losses are not always what they appear to be, and buying planes
77 Hiflyer : First off the 737 fleet needs to go fairly rapidly or go in for a major refurb...that is a large part of the equation. Secondly if you look at domesti
78 Uadc8contrail : jetdelta, "go blow somewhere else".....sounds like that degree from a reputable univ came from the back lot of a truck stop truck driving school!!!
79 Dc10s4ever : ..More new info. Turns out that the 777-300's in question are those that were ordered by SAS, not NH. Makes sense in that SAS is in a downsizing phase
80 Post contains links and images UnitedTristar : when did SK order 777-300's? never according to Boeing http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25064&RequestTimeout=20000 -m [Edited 2006-06-0
81 Hoya : LOL, ok, so this reveals that this whole thread is a joke. SAS NEVER ordered 777s.
82 UAL777UK : Hmm, think you might have hit the nail right on the head there!!
83 Post contains images Bmacleod : Don't they have 6 or 8 744s parked at Mojave? They must have a good number of stored newer Boeings that they can sell to raise .
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