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Delta: Industry Leader In FF Awards...  
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Delta Air Lines, for the THIRD year in a row, has lead the US industry in frequent flyer award redemptions.

http://www.ideaworkscompany.com/news/

A point from the study:

"Delta Air Lines, and its SkyMiles program, clearly leads all other airlines in the number of reward tickets issued during the last three years. " (bold mine)

I urge all of you to read the full report in acrobat format at the bottom of the link. It's not even close. Delta is the most generous.

So for all you frustrated SkyMiles members, you're not going to do any better!

Let's see how many people are in denial.  

[Edited 2006-06-06 00:24:00]

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Interesting study. It's odd, I've never had any issues obtaining a SkySaver award using my SkyMiles. My mom, however always has issues trying to get a Standard reward with OnePass.

Oh well Smile

let the bitching and kool-aid drinking begin.

-g



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 1):
It's odd

You know what else is odd Al? No one has anything to say about this, but everyone just loves to jump in when the time comes to bitch about not using their miles.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 1):
My mom, however always has issues trying to get a Standard reward with OnePass.

Yeah, CO Standard awards domestically are really hard to use to the point of being a misrepresentation of a product.

Internationally, they are much easier to use, with the limitations usually coming on domestic connections.

Wonder if DL's "liberal policy" was a contributing factor to their BK?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Wonder if DL's "liberal policy" was a contributing factor to their BK?

[sarcasm]Of course it wasn't...these FF programs are big moneymakers for the airlines. [/sarcasm]


User currently offlineJetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

I've never had any trouble redeeming my AAdvantage miles for tickets, even with their MileSAAver awards.

I realize there will be some city pairs more difficult than others, but there will always be those who complain and say their miles are useless.

Last week I booked 2 tickets to Canada and Alaska for the end of June and got the dates and times I wanted on the first try.

Those who try to go to Hawaii on a Saturday may have a little more trouble!

jetBlue



We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Thread starter):
So for all you frustrated SkyMiles members, you're not going to do any better!

The study does not mention anything about saver award seats (25,000 miles) vs. full-mileage (50,000 miles) redemption. The fact that Delta has the most reward tickets issued means nothing - it's how many of those are issued at the saver level that's important to me.

I am a Delta fan and have miles on both Delta and United. In my experience, United is much better in providing free seats for 25,000 miles.

In the past year I have tried to use Delta's 25,000 mile redemption for trips to Los Angeles, Fort Myers, Anchorage and San Juan. All I could get was a free ticket for 50,000 miles (not 25,000). But, I could (and did) get a United ticket for 25,000 miles. With San Juan, I even called right a midnight almost a year in advance when the seats were put into the system. United had instant inevntory of three seats at 25,000 miles. Delta had none (it's not that they were taken, there just was zero availability. I even checked back weeks later and it was the same story).


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

I've never had a problem getting 25,000 mile SkySavers...yes, they require a little more flexibility (for example, I recently wanted to do a Fri-Sun trip to GSO with miles, but ended up having to book Sat-Mon due to no seats on Sunday left), but it's definetely doable. Heck, I've even snagged SkySavers on the Tuesday before and the Sunday after Thanksgiving for this year. Only when I'm booking a ticket late for a peak time do I run into problems for SkySavers, but that should be expected and I'm not disappointed when I can't find any. Overall, you won't find me complaining about redeeming SkyMiles...while there are some parts of the program I don't like (and are supposedly being addressed, such as being able to book CO and NW awards online), it's always been real easy to get the SkySavers.

Jeff


User currently offlineJMBWEEBOY From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

DUH! Did anyone here think that reason maybe Delta lead in redemptions the last few years is because of fear they won't be around very much longer!!!!

Sorry, I have over 500,000 unfortunately with Delta and its practically
impossible to use. Tantamount to fraud. Some destinations, e.g. Barbados
or Naples, Fla. the low mileage level is never ever offered!

I have found American mileage downright easy to use and Continental
somewhat easy.

JMBWEEBOY


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting ORD (Reply 6):
The study does not mention anything about saver award seats (25,000 miles) vs. full-mileage (50,000 miles) redemption. The fact that Delta has the most reward tickets issued means nothing - it's how many of those are issued at the saver level that's important to me.

It also doesn't mention any other airlines programs that have similar options, so that works out.

Quoting ORD (Reply 6):
I am a Delta fan and have miles on both Delta and United. In my experience, United is much better in providing free seats for 25,000 miles.

And your experience is just that, your experience. That's where it ends. In reality, you're wrong.

Quoting JMBWEEBOY (Reply 8):
DUH! Did anyone here think that reason maybe Delta lead in redemptions the last few years is because of fear they won't be around very much longer!!!!

Doesn't add up. With all the people that have been warned to "use their miles now before DL goes under", seats would be harder to find.

Quoting JMBWEEBOY (Reply 8):
Sorry, I have over 500,000 unfortunately with Delta and its practically
impossible to use. Tantamount to fraud. Some destinations, e.g. Barbados
or Naples, Fla. the low mileage level is never ever offered!

It's always offered. It's just not available. Big difference.

Fraud huh? What does that make the other airlines programs? Murderers? Child molesters?  Wink

Quoting JMBWEEBOY (Reply 8):
I have found American mileage downright easy to use and Continental
somewhat easy.

And yet Delta is still FAR ahead of the pack.


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 9):
And your experience is just that, your experience. That's where it ends. In reality, you're wrong.

Perhaps you can try and carry on a decent conversation without getting so defensive.

Unless you provide some type of proof that Delta offers more available 25,000 mile award seats than United I'll say my experience is fairly representative. I provided four examples in the past 12 months where United had saver/25,000 mile seats available and Delta did not (and I preferred to fly Delta). What are you backing up your statements with?

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 9):
It's always offered. It's just not available. Big difference.

I tried for a month (checked every day) to get saver seats to San Juan from the moment they should have been placed in the system. They never appeared. Even the Delta agent told me some flights/markets do not have saver seats at all.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

Someone tell me where it says that Delta says that there will be one SkySaver seat on every flight? All I see is (from delta.com): SkySaver Award availability is limited, especially during peak travel periods, which vary by date, time and destination. All it says is availability is limited...this could very well mean nil in your preferred cabin. At 331 days, I've always found availabilty for SkySaver, it just might (gasp!) be in the First Class cabin...nowhere does it say that Delta is required to make 1 25,000 mile award available on every flight.

Jeff


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Quoting ORD (Reply 10):
Perhaps you can try and carry on a decent conversation without getting so defensive.

I'm stating facts. You're taking about your opinions and experiences. How you react to that is under your control, not mine.

United works for you, and that's great, for you. However, the statistics do not lie.

Quoting ORD (Reply 10):
Unless you provide some type of proof that Delta offers more available 25,000 mile award seats than United I'll say my experience is fairly representative. I provided four examples in the past 12 months where United had saver/25,000 mile seats available and Delta did not (and I preferred to fly Delta).

You can say that all you like. Other carriers have different level awards as well, and all of those are either counted or not counted, so it's fair to every program.

Quoting ORD (Reply 10):
What are you backing up your statements with?

I believe I linked to that in the original post.

Quoting ORD (Reply 10):
I tried for a month (checked every day) to get saver seats to San Juan from the moment they should have been placed in the system.

It's not instant. When loading the schedules for a huge airline with a vast route system like Delta, it takes a while.

Quoting ORD (Reply 10):
They never appeared.

They were purchased before you had the chance. You weren't the only one waiting around for them yanno!  Wink

Quoting ORD (Reply 10):
Even the Delta agent told me some flights/markets do not have saver seats at all.

What that agent told you was incorrect. It was his / her impression from their experience of trying to find seats and knowing how difficult it can be.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 11):
Someone tell me where it says that Delta says that there will be one SkySaver seat on every flight? All I see is (from delta.com): SkySaver Award availability is limited, especially during peak travel periods, which vary by date, time and destination. All it says is availability is limited...this could very well mean nil in your preferred cabin. At 331 days, I've always found availabilty for SkySaver, it just might (gasp!) be in the First Class cabin...nowhere does it say that Delta is required to make 1 25,000 mile award available on every flight.

There's at least 9 available on all mainline flights. "Limited" means SS doesn't not apply to every seats on every flight.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 12):
You can say that all you like. Other carriers have different level awards as well, and all of those are either counted or not counted, so it's fair to every program.

No, its not. Let's say 75% of UA's redemptions are at the 25,000 mile level, while only 25% of DL's redemptions are at the 25,000 mile level. Even if DL has more redemptions, the UA program is more appealing because there is more availability at the lower level. However, this study does not reveal the level.

And honestly, I would expect DL to be in the top three in redemptions because DL is one of the three largest airlines in the country.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 12):
There's at least 9 available on all mainline flights.

You don't honestly believe this. Just because the reward inventory bucket shows 9, doesn't mean there are actually nine seats available.


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 13):
No, its not. Let's say 75% of UA's redemptions are at the 25,000 mile level, while only 25% of DL's redemptions are at the 25,000 mile level. Even if DL has more redemptions, the UA program is more appealing because there is more availability at the lower level

Or vice versa! It's just as likely that most of those were SS redemptions. I guess we'll never know...

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 13):
You don't honestly believe this.

Believe it? I know it!  Wink

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 13):
Just because the reward inventory bucket shows 9, doesn't mean there are actually nine seats available.

Um, yea, it does. If it were anything less, it would show that to me.

Like I said, this is showing how many people are in denial.  Wink


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3007 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

I'm a die-hard Delta fan, yet I too have experienced problems with domestic reward tickets and had to turn to other airlines for help. I have noticed, on numerous occasions, that Saver seats are almost impossible to get on domestic flight. I've tried booking around 4 tickets, all at different times of the year, well in advance of the departure date, yet the seats were not available. From experience I have noticed that UA is one of the most generous companies when it comes to 25,000 mile reward in domestic travelling.
On a brighter note however, I LOVE to use 25,000 mile rewards on Intra-European flights with my SkyMiles. Because of the SkyTeam network it is almost always easy to get any European flight for 25,000 miles even if the departure is only a few days away. It's simply brilliant. I flew from Moscow to Paris connecting in Prague last summer, and on the way back, I flew through Milan. I thought it was great. Got to experience two airlines on one reward ticket. This year I'm planning to use 25,000 miles for SVO-LHR-SVO ticket using SkyMiles.

Bottom line... the SkyMiles program is not all that bad as people portray it. You just have to find a way to use it that suits your needs. Then it can turn out to be very enjoyable.

Aeroflot777

[Edited 2006-06-07 02:05:54]

User currently offlineJMBWEEBOY From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 9):
And yet Delta is still FAR ahead of the pack.

That's your opinion. In my experience, the most deceptive and fraudulent frequent flyer program in the airline industry!

JMBWEEBOY


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting JMBWEEBOY (Reply 16):
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 9):
And yet Delta is still FAR ahead of the pack.

That's your opinion.

It is? LOL


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2203 times:

THis thread has me laughing...because it might as well be titled "Bankrupt carrier makes it more difficult to take free trips". IMHO, FF programs will become little more than mileage programs that let you preboard. I think the days of free travel are closer to ending than anybody is willing to admit.

User currently offlineN960AS From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 466 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

I've attempted to use up my DL miles (as they're now AS partners) and it is nearly impossible to get the saver awards, I'm talking looking for flights 11 months in advance on routes DL serves non-stop from LAX. I think SkyMiles "saver" rewards are a joke. The credit card "double miles" is also a joke since you always need twice as many miles for the same trip as you would need on another airline, say AA. I've never had any problem with AS/AA getting domestic awards for 25,000 miles including booking only a month in advance. Good ridance skymiles.

User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

In the last year I've taken two TATL trips at the Skysaver level (one only booking twelve days out) and one domestic. Only one trip I hadn't been able to find Skysaver ability on (and in reality, it was available, just not at times I wanted to depart or arrive).

I think people assume that award tickets are a ripoff if they can't find the exact route they want at the cheapest level. Obviously a SkySaver award to a popular place like SJU is going to be harder to come by than one to, say, DSM.

Other things to keep in mind are the difficulty in finding intra-hub flights, and the need to sometimes call the partner awards desk to find flights that aren't listed online. Out of all the DL rewards I've used in the last few years, we've had the most difficulty finding availability on the SLC-ATL segments. Because of this, I've taken some slightly non-traditional routes (one I took last year ended up going SLC-EWR-AMS-CPH-CDG-IAH-SLC, flying DL, CO, KL, and AF).

If you want to be at your destination on a Friday the 24th by 5:00 pm not connecting in whatever airport, you're not going to have much luck finding a seat. Be a little flexible ... sometimes it means a long layover, or having to leave a day eariler. But the availability is out there.


User currently offlineAirCrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

No Flames PLEASE!!! but lets be realistic, these flights are FREE (tax excluded). You have to be FLEXIBLE with dates. I just booked a LAX/ATL/SCL vv in Business class. Yes, the dates preferred were not available, but with a little effort, eventually got them at the SuperSaver level. I might add, Delta's www was a breeze to book on, and I appreciated the fact you can hold an IT for a few days, thus allowing transfer of miles from Amex into the ff account to allow redemption.I remember the years BEFORE there were any FF programs. These programs are a PERK that should be appreciated. You have to have a fair and equitable approach to these things.

Anyway, Keep flying guys

AirCrew

[Edited 2006-06-07 07:19:55]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting N960AS (Reply 19):
I'm talking looking for flights 11 months in advance on routes DL serves non-stop from LAX.

I think it may be LAX that is the joke.

I can't find mileage tickets out of LAX on DL, CO or AA most of the time. AA is the easiest from LAX, but all are tough for the saver.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 18):
THis thread has me laughing...because it might as well be titled "Bankrupt carrier makes it more difficult to take free trips". IMHO, FF programs will become little more than mileage programs that let you preboard. I think the days of free travel are closer to ending than anybody is willing to admit.

And yet, they've given out more seats then ever, by a wide margin, and have led the study for the past three years. You make no sense.

Quoting N960AS (Reply 19):
I've attempted to use up my DL miles (as they're now AS partners) and it is nearly impossible to get the saver awards,



Quoting N960AS (Reply 19):
I think SkyMiles "saver" rewards are a joke.



Quoting N960AS (Reply 19):
Good ridance skymiles

And yet, it's by far the most generous program around.  Yeah sure

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 20):
If you want to be at your destination on a Friday the 24th by 5:00 pm not connecting in whatever airport, you're not going to have much luck finding a seat. Be a little flexible ... sometimes it means a long layover, or having to leave a day eariler. But the availability is out there.



Quoting AirCrew (Reply 21):
These programs are a PERK that should be appreciated. You have to have a fair and equitable approach to these things.

Be prepered to get flamed for your common sense. They will have none of that here!  Wink


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 14):
Or vice versa! It's just as likely that most of those were SS redemptions. I guess we'll never know...

Which is exactly why this "study" is useless and tells us nothing about the ease of using miles for free tickets.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 14):
Um, yea, it does. If it were anything less, it would show that to me.

You can believe any fairy tales you like, but there are NOT nine award seats on every flight.


25 GeorgiaAME : No question that the number of available seats is dwindling, and yes, it clearly borders on fraud as someone else has pointed out. That being said, ot
26 ORD : Sorry, but the original link does not back up your statement. The link says nothing about the use of 25,000 mile award tickets vs. 50,000 mile award
27 ORD : Well said. Want an example? Check United on August 24 from LAX to ORD (their main hub). Then check Delta on the same date from LAX to ATL (their main
28 Fanoftristars : Even though I'm a huge DL fan, and a PM on DL, I have to agree with ORD. It's clear that DL gives more seats away at the SkyChoice level than any othe
29 Post contains images B777-700 : If that's what you need to believe to help you sleep at night, don't let me or reality stop you. Yes, there are. I know this, you do not. It most cer
30 777STL : Without questioning some of the children here obviously defending their favorite airline to the death.... I find it interesting how some of you are cl
31 Post contains links B777-700 : I find it interesting that USA Today came to the same conclusions, not too long ago... http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-08-01-awards_x.htm
32 N960AS : I'm not "defending my favorite airline," just stating what I have run across. Maybe it is because AA has a lot more flights from LAX to the places I f
33 777STL : Ahh yes, because a two year old article, written before DL entered bankruptcy, is always a credible source.
34 B777-700 : Two years falls w/in the time frame of the new study, backing up it's results. And bankruptcy has nothing to do with it. If anything, there would be
35 Goingboeing : And a perfect example of why United will most likely be back in bankruptcy court within a year.
36 Post contains images Delta-flyer : You guys need to take a sanity check. On a given day, between given cities, of course there will be variations in availability among airlines. That p
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