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BA Fleet At Cosford Scrapped - Only 2 Left.  
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

British Airways have wasted no time since announcing in April that it's Heritage Musuem fleet of aircraft was to be scrapped.

The conway 707 has gone completely, even the concrete stands have been leveled.

Now the trident is reduced to history as only the empty space and the stands remain...

As soon as the air show is over this weekend the VC10 and the BAC 1-11 will also get the chop.

According to Cosford musuem, the blame lies with BA's lack of continued interest and maintenace, according to BA, Cosford wanted them out.

At the end of the day it's aviations loss.

There's little reason to this and it's amazing it's been kept so quiet that BA was allowed to dispose of the nations civil aviation heritage.

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VC10 at Cosford. This is about to be cut up due to a dispute with British Airways. In the foreground, the fencing marks the spot where the 707-400 remained. All trace has now been removed as this was the first to be scrapped.
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Bac 1-11 at Cosford. This will be cut up shortly.
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The Circles mark the spot. All that remains of BA's heritage trident at Cosford is 1 police cone and two empty stands



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Talk about shame.
I suppose it was good that I visited while the aircraft were whole two years ago.


User currently offlineAirCrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

The UK enjoys an enviable aircraft industry history/heritage. Whatever went wrong? We had the Comet, Viscount, Vanguard, VC10, Trident, BAC 1-11, BAE 146, and lest I forget, the Concorde (honors also given to France for their co-operation).

If it's truly BA's decision to trash these treasures. Shame on them! Don't tell me there are not enough people willing to dotate some cash and/or time to keep them for the publics viewing. As we all well know, aviation is a VERY strong magnet, hobby wise.


Keep flying guys

Cheers

AirCrew

[Edited 2006-06-06 01:47:01]

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6029 times:

The Viscount and the 1-11 are being dismantled and reassembled in full at the Museum of Flight in East Fortune in Scotland.

The fuselage forward of the wings of the 707 is going to East Fortune also.

The cockpit and nose of the Trident went to East Fortune.

The fuselage forward of the wings of the VC10 is going to Brooklands. I don't see why East Fortune didn't want this aircraft, though it doesn't have anything in it.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13241 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5737 times:

Funny how in all the outrage the fact that Cosford did not seem to want them anymore, barely gets a mention.
(Cosford is getting more military exhibits, it will, for example, have all three V Bombers on display).

Then there was the issue of care and maintenance, of aircraft in the BA or former companies liveries, as part of BA's Heritage Management, being looked after in the correct manner, by the museum.

Money does also come into this, of course, but there was more to it than that.


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5708 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 3):
The Viscount and the 1-11 are being dismantled and reassembled in full at the Museum of Flight in East Fortune in Scotland.

The fuselage forward of the wings of the 707 is going to East Fortune also.

The cockpit and nose of the Trident went to East Fortune.

The fuselage forward of the wings of the VC10 is going to Brooklands. I don't see why East Fortune didn't want this aircraft, though it doesn't have anything in it.

Unless East Fortune is going to reconstruct them from recycled coke cans I dont see how. The photo database shows the trident cock pit in about 4ft chunks, the 707 departed in a skip.

The Viscount was being disasembled as we speak.

I understand cosford wanted the VC10 gone as it is being replaced by an RAF VC10. It was a politics thing.. a government musuem with private assets, regardless of the fact they went there as musuem exhibits when BA was a government asset.

This is why BA should have donated them to the nation. Then they would be safe. How long before a concorde meets the same fate.


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BEA Viscount being cut up at RAF Cosford.



The question is, once the BA Fleet is history and Cosford becomes the Military musuem it aim's to be.. what happens to these remaining civil aviation treasures ... How safe will they be in the next 6-12months, 2 years ?? as out casts at a Military musuem.

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How safe is this plane at Cosford ? Once all the BA Heritage fleet is scrapped
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BOAC Comet at RAF Cosford



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

Its disgusting, in my opinion.
I don't care who is to blame but clearly money got in the way of common sense when it comes to saving pieces of history. Now they are gone forever.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

Well,

East Fortune are still saying that they will receive all 4 Intended aircraft. So, i can only think that we can expect to see them still.

Also, AFAIK East Fortune actually paid for the aircraft to be transported. So, they would not give that money away.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7698 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

It was announced sometime ago - search a.net archives for details - that because RAF Cosford wished to focus their museum on military aviation the BA collection at Cosford had to be moved.

The only place where a home could be found for much of the exhibition was East Fortune. It was announced that the Viscount and 1-11 would be disassembled, transported to Scotland and reassembled.

It was announced that the 707 would be cut in two just forward of the wing route and that the forward section would go to East Fortune and the rear section would be salvaged.

It was announced that the cockpit and nose section of the Trident would be cut off and sent to East Fortune and the rest salvaged.

It was announced that the VC-10 would be cut up and the forward section sent to its original birthplace, Brooklands.

All the above would be at BA's cost.

This raises an important question:

Has anything changed? Is there any evidence (and not hyperbole) that the above programme is not being implemented in full?

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Thread starter):
it's amazing it's been kept so quiet that BA was allowed to dispose of the nations civil aviation heritage

Has it been kept quiet? Did you do a search of a.net archives? Clearly not because the plan was detailed and discussed some months ago. Have you looked at the press releases on the BA web site? Clearly not because BA issued a press release that announced the transfer programme.

What else should BA done to give this situation wider publicity? Certainly their press release is sitting on their web site for you and others to read and publications to reproduce and comment on. And please explain why if BA were not prepared to pay their wack in maintaining the aircraft as you claim they are willing to go to the significant costs of disassembly, transportation over several hundred miles and reassembly of that part of the collection for which their is space at East Fortune.

The facts are simple. The RAF Cosford Museum resolved that its finite resources should be used in the military aviation sphere. East Fortune have happily agreed to take over as much of the collection as their finite resources allow. British Airways - unless you have new evidence that disputes this - have facilitated the saving of as much of the collection as possible even though they are a business and not an aviation charity.


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 7):
Has it been kept quiet? Did you do a search of a.net archives? Clearly not because the plan was detailed and discussed some months ago. Have you looked at the press releases on the BA web site? Clearly not because BA issued a press release that announced the transfer programme.

Yes I searched the A.Net archives.. why dont you ? Nowt there.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
What else should BA done to give this situation wider publicity?

How about offer to donate them to a musuem ? Give more notice rather than announcing it the morning they are cut. If BA truly wanted to save them a bit more advanced notice would have been good.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
have facilitated the saving of as much of the collection as possible even though they are a business and not an aviation charity

So why do they even own them ? If Cosford OWNED them, they may have been more ameniable to keeping them, rather than "we need more space, lets kick them from the nest". If BA's not in the aviation heritage business why does it have heritage assets ?

Which brings me to.. why do BA own the Concordes still ? What stops the situation being repeated should Intrepid reach the same conclusion Cosford did ?


At the end of the day.. they are gone. Because communication didnt happen. It's not as if these are assets no one wants.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Yes I searched the A.Net archives.. why dont you ? Nowt there.

erm... I never said that, please check your Quotations before you post.

Also, here you are:

BA Heritage Collection Outrage (by ConcordeMach2 May 10 2006 in Aviation Hobby)

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Call me crazy but having a nose section here or cockpit there is hardly the same thing as having the whole plane, is it?

I understand why planes are recycled but these were planes of at least some historical importance. Maybe the British airplane industry didn't have the happy ending its once bright future inspired, but scrapping some of the only whole examples of some very worthy aircraft is really really disappointing.

I never thought I'd say this, but BA should have taken a page out of DL's playbook and setup a heritage museum, only open it for the public. I'd pay 15-20 quid, as you like that say, to see some old BA airliners (whole - not partial).



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

The staff at Cosford seem some what commercially orientated and took the view that these were rotting planes which no one wanted. As they are Military musuem, really they are not wanted.

Whats somewhat insulting, is the perfectly preserved Argentinian fighter kept indoors at Cosford after being captured in the Falklands, whilst the VC10 design which helped win the falklands is rotting outside.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Okay, BA are paying for the sections of aircraft to be moved. That won't have been cheap. And look at it this way - if you're a BA worker concerned about your job, and your pension, would you be impressed if an absolute fortune was spent by BA to move whole aircraft halfway across the country? Are these the only examples of these aircraft left? They weren't airworthy, and the decision probably had to be taken as to whether a whole aircraft or part of it could be saved.

And to those saying about it all been quiet I've seen a couple of threads on this site. I guess some people struggle to search back more than two weeks given the same posts that regularly crop up.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9537 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 5):
How safe is this plane at Cosford ? Once all the BA Heritage fleet is scrapped

East Fortune already has a Comet but a Britannia would do nicely.  Smile


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

This is really not a flame, but it is probably a good thing to loose these planes.
Imagine some young kid walking by and seeing alll these "local" aircraft, hearing about the rich history and then asking the question, Why don't we make planes anymore?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7698 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Yes I searched the A.Net archives.. why dont you ? Nowt there.

I did. I found the thread 'BA Cosford Museum To Go' started on 9 Apr 06 and 'BA Heritage Outrage' started 10 May 06. Goodness knows what you weere searching for!

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
If BA truly wanted to save them a bit more advanced notice would have been good.

Read the BA press release and you will correctly deduce (as it details exactly what is to happen to each aircraft) that faced with the challenge of what to do when Cosford went 100 per cent military, they contacted all likely British exhibition sites and negotiated arrangements to do what could be done to save as much of the collection as possiblr for the UK.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
So why do they even own them ?

Because they are painted in their copyrighted colours. No commercial company will allow their colours to be used entirely independently of their control. So, for example, BA and all other airlines, license the likes of Gemini Jets and Herpa to produce each collectors' model they produce and (I suspect but do not know) charge the model produced so that the airline at least covers its costs on licensing and monitoring.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
why do BA own the Concordes still ?

See above. If they were sold / given away they would first be stripped of their BA livery so that the new owner could not distort the livery. This is why BA and all other leading airlines paint out their own insignia before disposing of used aircraft creating what are known as 'Basic' liveries.

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 10):
Also, here you are:

BA Heritage Collection Outrage (by ConcordeMach2 May 10 2006 in Aviation Hobby)

Others also appear to have found previous references that StarGoldLHR claims do not exist.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13241 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Sorry StarGoldLHR, but you are talking rot.

It IS well known, discussed enough on here, that BA do own the Concordes.

Since Cosford aircrraft were part of the BA Heritage Collection, seems to answer that too.

BA have been involved in all this, since I know the person who is administering it and so have the full story.

Fact is, the BA Heritage Collection, like every part of the airline, has to turn a profit.
Cosford was not, plus concerns about the aircraft there.
The Heritage Collection are working on a number of ways to be a profit centre, in the past, it's been a rather hidden, tiny part of the airline.

(I've already suggested re-releasing on DVD's, the early 1990's VHS products, of various BEA, BOAC, BA films, there are ideas about using some of the huge amount of non legal (I.E. not certified maintenance paperwork or legal/commercial stuff, that yours truly helped to make sure was not just binned).


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

It's always sad to hear about heritage aircraft being unwanted and evenutally ending up on someone's table as a pop can.  Sad

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