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Virgin Atlantic And United Near Miss Over London  
User currently offlineGUNDU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4458 times:

05 September 2000 07:00AM

Two jets within seconds of mid-air collision

LONDON - Two passenger jets came within 10 seconds of a mid-air collision above Central London before intervention by an air-traffic controller averted the disaster.

The jets from United Airlines and Virgin Atlantic, carrying 707 people in all, came as close as 200 metres to each other before a computer-activated collision-course alarm warned them of the danger.

The two jets were on their final approach to Heathrow in the early hours of Sunday on Aug 20, reported The Times of London.

Once the alarm sounded, air-traffic controllers at West Drayton immediately told the pilot of United Flight 998: ''Take urgent avoiding action now! Turn on to a heading of 270 degrees to avoid airliner.''

The captain of the United Boeing 777, carrying 278 passengers and 14 crew from Boston, calmly replied: ''Understood. Immediate action taken. I have got the other aircraft beneath me in my sight.''

After the near miss, the air-traffic controller told the United pilot that the Virgin aircraft was ''going 600 feet underneath you''.

Virgin Flight 22, from Washington, was carrying 400 passengers and 15 crew. Both jets, flying at about 480 km per hour, were descending towards Heathrow at different angles but could have collided within moments.

A pilot who listened in on the exchange between the controller and the United pilot said: ''It was a computer conflict alarm that saved the day and prevented what could have been the worst air disaster in Britain.

''Can you imagine the devastation if these jets had come down in the Westminster region - on the Houses of Parliament?''

A Civil Aviation authority said the incident had been investigated and the conclusion was that safety had not been compromised.

A far more nonchalant Virgin Atlantic spokesman said: ''These incidents are not uncommon in the stacking system for aircraft waiting for permission to land at Heathrow.''

This latest incident comes shortly after Britain's air traffic watchdog issued a safety alert after an increasing number of cases of radio hackers posing as controllers and issuing false instructions to airline pilots descending to land at British airports.

In all 20 cases reported so far this year, the pilots eventually realised they were talking to fake air-traffic controllers.

That shows you how British ATC handle the problem, eh?

Source:Project Eyeball S'pore


Gundu

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBig777jet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4302 times:

I checked OAG United flight #998 this is not a 777. It's a 767 from BOS to LHR.

Pretty scary! Thanks God they're safe. Look at this number of 707 passengers. That's a Boeing 707! Chilly!!!

Big777jet


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4274 times:

Some people in London should realize soon that the traffic control system has to be updated. I just read that they use an out of time system to control the traffic...
Does there have to be a collision with 800 deaths first until they react?



User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

Heathrow/London seems to be No.1 in near collisions in the world. Frightening.
LHR should be the perfect airport for the A3XX: Bigger aircraft = less flights = less chance of an accident.

Last year I was sitting in an LH A321 when we came near to an LH A310 during approach to FRA in the middle of thick clouds. The A310 was so near you could read the registration! I´ve never heard about this "near-miss" in the news. It was no less tight than this Virgin/United near London!


User currently offlineBOS-CDG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Udo is right,
The NERC project (new en route center for the London Area) has been a total failure, which hopefully could go operational end of 2001, 6 years behind schedule...Beautiful state-of-the-art building still waiting for its controllers...

A big stain on Lockheed-Martin's record (they are doing the system with several other partners...).

E.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

maybe stupid questions, but as far as I know all a/c flying to and from the states have to be equipped with a TCAS.
Shouldn't have that alerted one of the pilots either VS or UA or both.

See following photo:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia



The TCAS alerted the pilots with : traffic traffic

Regards
Vasco


User currently offlineWidebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

....the above article indicates the TCAS in both aircraft prevented the collosion...

"The jets from United Airlines and Virgin Atlantic, carrying 707 people in all, came as close as 200 metres to each other before a computer-activated collision-course alarm warned them of the danger...."


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3856 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

Thanks for posting that. The scariest thing about the article to me was the end.

"This latest incident comes shortly after Britain's air traffic watchdog issued a safety alert after an increasing number of cases of radio hackers posing as controllers and issuing false instructions to airline pilots descending to land at British airports.

In all 20 cases reported so far this year, the pilots eventually realised they were talking to fake air-traffic controllers."

Now that is frightening. I wonder if this will become some sort of new terrorism? Instead of blowing up a plane, just give it false instructions and either crash it into the ground or into another plane (2 for 1). Ugh. I don't even want to think about this.

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineAke0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

upps, was not awake at that the time of my previous post, sorry.


User currently offlineTripl7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Oh my God ! What's this world coming to !

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

That´s why most countries don´t let planes fly over their respective houses of parliament...
Daniel


User currently offlineBY291A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

How many times has this sort of thing got to happen before the government realise that our ATC systems are out of date? Living under many of the main UK airways this post leaves me concerned and anxious. Are all aircraft fitted with TCAS?? If not why not???!

People who make hoax ATC calls should be treated seriously, as one day there stupid actions may kill many people, both in the air and on the ground.

Regards
Britannia 291A
Manchester, UK


User currently offlineACA330 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4041 times:


I can't believe it !

How could anyone do that !!

How is this technically possible to get that frequency???

I had never heard this before... what can be done to prevent this dangerous kind a contamination??

Sorry, this post didn't offer much information, just an expression of my dissappointment with those hackers !!!


User currently offlineB744 From New Zealand, joined Dec 1999, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

It's very simple to broadcast on the VHF AM frequencies. All you need is an off-the-shelf radio used by light aircraft, gliders and even small landing strips / drop zones and if you know the local tower / approach frequencies, you can transmit. The type of modulation used is very old and very insecure. The main problem that aviation authorities face in trying to mandate a changeover to a newer more secure technology is the co-ordination required to change everyone over. i.e., what happens if an airport has been upgarded but a particular aircraft (that maybe doesn't fly there often) hasn't (and vice-versa).

However, I think the problem is serious enough to be tackled.

B744


User currently offlineVirginLover From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 958 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

WOW! That was a close miss! If that Virgin Plane crashed(and United's plane too) ... I don't know what I would do (as most of you know I am a very loyal follower!)

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