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UA's Cleveland RCC To Close; An Omen?!  
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4746 times:

Just got an email detailing UA's decision to close their CLE Red Carpet Club, citing "low usage" and a "significant increase in rent". Questions:

-How much UA traffic does CLE have?
-Why did they put a RCC there in the first place?
-Does this foretell of UA's decision to curtail further services there?


777fan


DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4725 times:

CLE at one time was a hub for UA!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4725 times:

Also pre 9-11 AA and US both operated clubs in CLE.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4701 times:

Anyone remember the old "Sunbird" flights to Florida in the winter and the old "AL E. Gator" commercials?

United used to be the largest player in CLE for years. Many found memories as a child with my parents going somewhere fun on UA.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4682 times:

Interesting. I've only been there once - sometime in 2000, during a connection on CO between BWI and ORD. CO seemed to rule without much of a challenge...


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineChrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 857 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4647 times:

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
-How much UA traffic does CLE have?

1 or 2 express to DEN
mixture of mainline and express to ORD
express to IAD

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
-Why did they put a RCC there in the first place?

like Luv2fly said....CLE was a pretty large UA hub before the mid-80's

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
-Does this foretell of UA's decision to curtail further services there?

doubt it....they dont have a whole lot as it is. but ya never know...


chris



Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4647 times:

UA's hub was there years ago. All of the things on the "C" concourse that you see as Continental used to be United Airlines. United left CLE as a hub in the late 80's when CO moved their up from IAD to CLE and then UA beefed up IAD.

Safe Flying  Smile

Remember, I am old. So I remember the 70's and 80's in CLE and flying United non stop to most major cities. DC8 Stretches and DC10's in UA colors all the time. Oh, the days of the "Friendship"



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4629 times:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 6):
Remember, I am old. So I remember the 70's and 80's in CLE and flying United non stop to most major cities. DC8 Stretches and DC10's in UA colors all the time. Oh, the days of the "Friendship"

Second that! I remember as a kid, in the early 70s, taking a UA 747 from CLE to LAX. And many a DC-10 from ORD to CLE. UA also had a flight that went CLE-CAK-ORD, and another that went CLE-TOL-ORD.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4612 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 7):

Yep the UA 747 CLE to LAX. And these kids are in love with jetBlue ! HA!

Safe Flying  Smile with a little humor now and then.



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4558 times:

This is aweful.  Sad

Why, UA, why?



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4558 times:

In 1988, Did CO operate DC9s from PIT to CLE? I remember my grandparents flying out to PHX on CO and they left PIT on a DC9 that went to Ohio, was that likely up to CLE or was it to somewhere else? Anybody know?

I know the following year they went to PHX on DL and likely stopped over in ATL. I remember that return flight being either a Mad Dog or a 727...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):
In 1988, Did CO operate DC9s from PIT to CLE? I remember my grandparents flying out to PHX on CO and they left PIT on a DC9 that went to Ohio, was that likely up to CLE or was it to somewhere else? Anybody know?

Most likely CLE. That was a hub for CO at the time and CO did have a bunch of DC9's.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4499 times:

In the late 80's, CO inherited New York Air's hub in IAD. Cleveland was UA's hub then. There was a rumor that (back in the late 80's) CO wanted to build up IAD, but that was put to rest when UA and CO "swapped" hubs.

Our IAD hub was great. Parking terminal side for employees, great trips to YOW (48 hours), SAN (through LAX) and others, we had the DC-10 pubs come through, the A-300, the mid-field terminal. It was a small base for FAs and pilots and was a tight-knit family within the CO one.

Never really found out why UA wanted IAD back then, now it's clear.

Seems nowadays all decisions are based on economics and feasibility.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 12):
In the late 80's, CO inherited New York Air's hub in IAD. Cleveland was UA's hub then. There was a rumor that (back in the late 80's) CO wanted to build up IAD, but that was put to rest when UA and CO "swapped" hubs.

There was no swapping of hubs. United had pulled down Cleveland after deregulation in the early-mid 1980s, before Continental ever merged with New York Air (in 1987) and got their IAD hub. United had no need for two midwest hubs (ORD and CLE), and of course ORD won out.


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4420 times:

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 13):
There was no swapping of hubs. United had pulled down Cleveland after deregulation in the early-mid 1980s, before Continental ever merged with New York Air (in 1987) and got their IAD hub. United had no need for two midwest hubs (ORD and CLE), and of course ORD won out.

There was also some economic considerations in UAs decision to pull out of CLE. The costs at CLE were high and the city did nothing to help UA. In fact, after UA pulled out of CLE, DL approached CLE about a potential hub. However, again due to the costs and other airport problems, DL settled on CVG. Then came CO.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineChrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 857 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 7):
I remember as a kid, in the early 70s, taking a UA 747 from CLE to LAX. And many a DC-10 from ORD to CLE. UA also had a flight that went CLE-CAK-ORD, and another that went CLE-TOL-ORD.

UA 747's to MIA, ORD and LAS too.
DC10's to ORD, MIA, FLL, PBI, ATL, TPA etc..
737s to TOL, CAK, LAN, FNT, GRR, CRW, YNG, SBN, FWA to name a few.



Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
User currently offlineJamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 978 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

USAir was the big player in CLE after United's pull-down. At about the time USAir integrated PSA and Piedmont (1988-89) USAir flew non-stops from San Francisco and LAX to CLE, along with significant point-to-point service from CLE to the eastern seaboard. When I get home, I will dig out an old US/AL timetable. CLE was a true focus city for US/AL in the late 1980's...


"She's a a cruel lover."...E. Diaz referring to United's B747-400.
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

From what I remember reading at FlyerTalk, the club was an unattended one...members were supposed to sign in at the front, but allegedly there was no attendant there.

Jeff


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 14):
There was also some economic considerations in UAs decision to pull out of CLE. The costs at CLE were high and the city did nothing to help UA. In fact, after UA pulled out of CLE, DL approached CLE about a potential hub. However, again due to the costs and other airport problems, DL settled on CVG. Then came CO.

Sounds like the same story of another airport I/we are all quite familiar with...

*cough cough*PIT*cough*

But without anyone coming in to establish their hub there, let alone discuss it... Okay, enough of that, back to CLE



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

I'm out of town and away from my timetable collection, but IIRC UA's June 1975 timetable showed CLE having about 85 dailies, including 747 to ORD, DC10's to ORD and I think DEN. (CLE is one of my 'home' airports because I have friends in that area, which is why I remember this sort of detail).

I'm surprised that a United Red Carpet club lasted this long at CLE. Hasn't CLE had the spoke-station schedule described by Chrisjake in reply 5 for over 10 years?

Jim

[Edited 2006-06-10 01:47:20]

User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3990 times:
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CLE really has not had much from UA in the past 5 year (or more). It was not all that long ago when they were flying DC-10s ORD, DEN and SFO with a wide range of widebodies rotated from ORD between their flights to/from Europe.

Frankly, I too am surprised that the RCC lasted this long...



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

When I first hired on w/UA in '79, UA fielded 119 daily nonstops throughout the continental US w/virtually all type of equipment. That Fall, we each received a flyer entitled "United's Route Structure: How Its Changing & Why". It went on to describe how hubs such as ORD,DEN,SFO were going to increase hub flying, and places such as CLE & PIT were going to be down-sized. At one point, after the PATCO strike, UA terminated all flights into ATL & MSY, but later went back in. As I recall, the flight stage length from CLE was not economical as it covered a lot of cities in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania. The ciompany opted to serve a lot of this from the West via DEN, then later, changed again and increased ORD. But CLE was downsized, and was barely a "nub", never mind a hub.

User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Speaking of CO and UA in CLE....

When I first started working in CLE in 95, The UA ticket counter was still quite long and at the far left and took up half of what is today the CO ticket counter causing CO to have a "split" ticket counter operation.

The CLE ticket counters from left to right were something like....

United
Continental (for all flights other than BOS, LGA, DCA, MDW and ORD)
Northwest
Southwest
Charters
Air Ontario
Continental (for BOS, LGA, DCA, MDW and ORD flights only)
Delta
USAir
TWA
American
America West
Midwest Express

(Those last two, HP and YX, may have been vice versa but they were the last two on the far right)

I seem to recall an issue with UA not wanting to give up their position because of some-sort of underground bag conveyor that ran from curbside to inside the terminal for skycap use which UA had installed during the hub days. Since they didn't want to move their counter and CO needed the counter space, CO had two ticket counters and split them up based on destinations. At least this is what I read somewhere....or was told....

Anyway 777 fan, if you go to my website: www.geocities.com/departing1983/CLE79intro.html there are extensive flight schedules for all carriers serving CLE in 1979 and you can see how big CLE was for UA.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3824 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):
In 1988, Did CO operate DC9s from PIT to CLE? I remember my grandparents flying out to PHX on CO and they left PIT on a DC9 that went to Ohio, was that likely up to CLE or was it to somewhere else? Anybody know?

I know the following year they went to PHX on DL and likely stopped over in ATL. I remember that return flight being either a Mad Dog or a 727...

Actually, Steeler83, CO started CLE-PIT service in July of 1989. The CO station in PIT opened in 1987, when People Express became part of CO. The only routes were to EWR. CLE was added in 1989, and IAH was added in 1990-91, I believe. CO mainline agents were replaced by ExpressJet around 1998. The CO mainline agents all went to CLE.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9112 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
Actually, Steeler83, CO started CLE-PIT service in July of 1989. The CO station in PIT opened in 1987, when People Express became part of CO. The only routes were to EWR. CLE was added in 1989, and IAH was added in 1990-91, I believe. CO mainline agents were replaced by ExpressJet around 1998. The CO mainline agents all went to CLE.

You're like an all-knowing PIT aviation guy on here; you know just about everything about PIT aviation.

Anyway, I guess that DC9 went to Newark then if CLE wasn't added until a year later. I remember my grandma telling me that the plane went to Ohio (Ahiah)...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 777fan : On a related note, I'm reading this from the confines of UA's RCC in Tokyo-Narita of all places. Boy, 777fan gets around, huh?! FWIW, this place is am
26 CentPIT : When was this service discontinued? CLE-PIT was reintroduced on April 6, 2003 with the four daily BE1s.
27 FWAERJ : DL also looked at IND... in fact, IND was virtually begging DL to have their Midwest hub there so IND could have a dual-hub operation (a DL passenger
28 Indio66 : Any CLE discussion is not complete without a reference to the paul simon movie "One trick pony"; he strolles throught the airport in the first part of
29 Post contains links and images AlanCHS : UNITED route map from 1978
30 Post contains images Indy : Absolutely correct. While there are benefits of having a hub like increased employment and more nonstop destinations the consumers usually win in a s
31 USPIT10L : Just after 9/11.
32 USPIT10L : Actually, unless it was an aircraft swap, PE had 737s only in PIT. CO might've swapped in a DC9 periodically, but IAH wasn't serviced yet from here.
33 GoCOgo : Anyone know what the space might get used for? Perhaps some better food vendors? Or will they just close it off?
34 HPAEAA : Well, the old AA Lounge became admin offices, and I think the US club is still closed off.... I'd assume that it would probably goto the airport for
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