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Why Is STN More Popular Than LTN?  
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2223 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3485 times:
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Luton is 25 mins from London by rail while Stanstead is 45 mins away by rail, LTN had 7,5 mill pax last year while STN had 22 mill pax... Why is there such a big difference between the two airports?

With LHR and LGW packed to capacity most of the day and night, LTN ought to be a great relief airport, no?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

One name for ya... Ryanair!


Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19245 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

LTN is rather limited in terms of ramp and terminal space, etc, thereby limiting its operations, whereas STN is considerably bigger in both respects. However, LTN opens 24-hours whereas STN doesn't. You could argue that STN is more willing, in theory, to accept lower fees, thereby stimulating demand from airlines and consequently attracting more passengers, than LTN, but then U2 has its main base at the Bedfordshire airport, and FR has a smaller base there. You could also argue that STN's Liverpool St. and T. Hale train connections, and to Cambridge, etc., are more convenient than Luton's public transport options, even if they are, in general, expensive (but exceptions do exist, such as Sheringham-STN-Sheringham, at over 6 hours journey, from under £17; and Bangor-STN, even via London, from £12.20 one-way). But things aren't all rosy for STN: it is becoming a victim of its own success in terms of delays as a result of numerous flights at particular times of the day. Evidently, FR, by far the largest airline at STN, is crucial to the airport's success in terms of passenger numbers - which is bound to increase still further.

[Edited 2006-06-10 20:05:50]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3048 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Luton has never been able to boast the capacity of Stansted, there are several reasons for this...

- Stansted was more or less a brand new airport, with new infastructure and a new terminal designed to be expanded.

- Stansted is owned by BAA and they have money available to invest ahead of any expansion, where Luton has taken a more conservative approach only expanding when absolutely necessary and many people will say this is a contributing factor.

- Access to the airport... Luton is located about 3 miles from the M1 and has to share it's busy roads with residents of the town and railway station is located about a mile from the terminal which is again used by locals. Stansted has it's own dedicated railway line and station and has a dedicated junction off the M11 making the access far easier.

- Geography... Luton is located on the edge of the edge of the town and has far less space to expand and any major future expansion is likely to be expensive. Also the airport is located on top of a hill with a 150ft cliff face at the end of runway 26. Stansted is located in country and has far more room to expand. (But locals may disagree!)

- Runways... Luton only has a 2160 metre runway length, restricting larger aircrafts operating to the airport and long haul routes. Monarch did in 2000/2001 operate an A330-200 non-stop to SFB. Stansted boasts a 3048m runway.

Both Stansted and Luton are not as empty as some people may think and at peak times both airports are approaching capacity, when it comes to runway space. At STN it is not unusual to see 6-8 aircraft queueing at any one time to take off first thing in the morning.

Luton also has several issues of its own to contend with and many people would argue these are of there own making...
- The airport does not have full length taxi-ways and aircraft have to back track down the runway to take off and land. Severely impacting the number of take-offs and landings each hour. This problem could easily be overcome. (They do still manage to get about 16 aircraft and 10 landings an hour at peak times!)
- All apron is currently up to capacity with aircrafts night stopping at the airport and makes it very difficuly for airlines to base aircraft there. No new stands are currently planned until next year. Airlines flying in from other bases should not have a problem.

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
LTN had 7,5 mill pax last year

Luton experienced a phenominal year last year and exceeded over 9 million passenger. This is expected to be over 11 million this year.
http://www.london-luton.co.uk/en/news.asp?id=161

[Edited 2006-06-10 20:19:25]

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2223 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3365 times:
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Gilesdavies: what a great reply, thanx  Smile

Are both airports actively promoting themselves to possible new airlines thinking about launching London services or are they happy with the ones they already have, so that new airlines have to take the initial contact to enquire about slots and parking etc?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineKazzie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

Its packed enough right now as it is...

They have had to Add chairs (though only fold away ones) into the new terminal due to the amount of passengers...

Not to mention ramp space, This week, on more than 1 occasion I have seen A/C pull onto to the Cargo ramp and maintenance ramps for PAX service, simply because there is no space on the ramp, The pier is dominated by Wizz, Monarch, Thompson and Helveltic, The walk way gates are dominated by Easyjet, and the Old Departure terminal is Ryanair and remote gates...

We need that new terminal! there is no way we can handle any more than we do currently...


User currently offlineKazzie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 1):
One name for ya... Ryanair!

This is not a problem, In fact FR is pretty Popular at LTN...


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2223 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3228 times:
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Does LTN and STN have the same rush-hour times as LHR, FRA, CDG etc... like between 0700 and 0900 and between 1500 and 1800 hrs? Or do "leisure flights" have their own rush-hours?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineKazzie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3202 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 7):
Does LTN and STN have the same rush-hour times as LHR, FRA, CDG etc... like between 0700 and 0900 and between 1500 and 1800 hrs? Or do "leisure flights" have their own rush-hours?

Yes..

We have a rush hour between 7-8,

at 7 there is not 1 gate free, by 8:30 the ramp is empty!

then there is the lunchtime rush at about 12-3 then the evening rush at around 6-9..


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3048 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 6):
This is not a problem, In fact FR is pretty Popular at LTN...

It's a bit different to STN, there is only four 738's based at LTN, while there is approximately 40 aircraft based at STN!!!

Ryanair has continued to grow at Stansted and its other UK bases (Namely LPL, PIK and EMA) over the last year. even though Michael O'Leary has critisied BAA for their landing fees and Luton has remained stagnent with no further aircrafts added the base. We have also seen a number of routes come and go at Luton.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 7):
Does LTN and STN have the same rush-hour times as LHR, FRA, CDG etc... like between 0700 and 0900 and between 1500 and 1800 hrs? Or do "leisure flights" have their own rush-hours?

Im not too sure about STN, but LTN is extremely busy for the first few hours in the morning from about 6am-9am, this is because all the aircrafts based at the airport fly out to their first destinations of the day. There is not a great deal of incoming traffic for the first few hours other than a few Aer Arran, Wizz Air, Helios Airways (AlphaJet) and Helvetic flights coming in. For the remainder of the day flights are very much staggered and can see about 20 landing and take-offs an hours.

Typical List of Aircraft Based at LTN during Summer 2006.
18-22 easyJet 737-300/700's
3-4 Monarch A320/A321/757 (Very occassionally A300)
1 First Choice A320
3 ThomsonFly 737-800/757/767-200 (Increase to 4 during peak summer season on certain days)
4 Ryanair 737-800's


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 5):
The walk way gates are dominated by Easyjet,

I take it you are referring to the cattle-pens located some 18 miles from the squalid overcrowded strip mall of a terminal ? What's is wrong with Luton, have they not heard of jetways ?


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3048 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 10):
What's is wrong with Luton, have they not heard of jetways ?

The new pier at Luton is capable of having jetways added to it, and Luton has made it clear they will add them if airlines demands them. But no airline at Luton has found it necessary for them.

Luton is a low cost airport and the airlines want passengers off and on the aircraft as quickly as possible, and by using stairs passengers can board from both the front and rear of the aircraft.

This is a similar case at Stansted, of the three piers only one has the jetways added to them even though the others are again cablable of having them added.

When I flew into STN on Germanwings, we parked at one of the stands with a jetway but this was not used and we had steps to the front and rear of the aircraft for passengers to exit.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 11):
and by using stairs passengers can board from both the front and rear of the aircraft.

Given the charms of the English climate, you'd thing they'd have stumped up for double-door jetways, as used by WN in some stations (I saw one at Tromso as well) - if they're that fussed about how quickly pax get off that is. Easyjet at NCE uses jetways every chance they get, and they manage.


User currently offlineKazzie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 9):
Typical List of Aircraft Based at LTN during Summer 2006.
18-22 easyJet 737-300/700's
3-4 Monarch A320/A321/757 (Very occassionally A300)
1 First Choice A320
3 ThomsonFly 737-800/757/767-200 (Increase to 4 during peak summer season on certain days)
4 Ryanair 737-800's

And 1 x Aer Arran ATR-72  Smile

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 10):
I take it you are referring to the cattle-pens located some 18 miles from the squalid overcrowded strip mall of a terminal ? What's is wrong with Luton, have they not heard of jetways ?

I WISH we had them..

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 11):
The new pier at Luton is capable of having jetways added to it, and Luton has made it clear they will add them if airlines demands them. But no airline at Luton has found it necessary for them.

Indeed so, I wish we had jetways, Currently to get from the gate to the aircraft you have to venture down 6 flights of stairs then up to A/C steps... Passengers complain about doing it once but try being staff and having to run up and down them over and over while boarding!

im loosing so much frikking weight  Silly


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7693 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
Easyjet at NCE uses jetways every chance they get, and they manage.

I believe that it was EasyJet that was the prime anti-jetway mover at LTN because of cost. At NCE do you know whether they would pay less to the airport if they did not use the jetways?


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2601 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
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Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
However, LTN opens 24-hours whereas STN doesn't.

Both STN and LTN are H24, however at the moment both airports are subject to night restrictions due to work in progress on their single runways - either reduced distances or full closures on certain nights. Once works are completed both airports will revert back to the normal H24 availability.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineKazzie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 15):

Both STN and LTN are H24, however at the moment both airports are subject to night restrictions due to work in progress on their single runways - either reduced distances or full closures on certain nights. Once works are completed both airports will revert back to the normal H24 availability.

LTN runway is only closed after 0000 til 0500 or 0600.. the Runway is open at nights on weekends...

When closed, its fully closed.


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