F.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 11 Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5686 times:
How were Berlin airports used when there were the Federal and the Democrat Germany? Were them all 3 used for all destinations/people or they were dedicated for eastern and western citizens?
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3265 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5670 times:
THF was in the US sector and PanAm used to run their IGS (Internal German Service) from there until the '70s, when it moved to TXL in the British sector. BEA ran services to London, AF ran flights to Paris, and the US ran services to JFK and West Germany. AFAIK, no other airlines were allowed in West Berlin. East Berlin had SXF, and Interflug was based there.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3265 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5631 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2): TXL was in the FRENCH sector, not the British one.
Another airfield called Berlin-Gatow was located in the British sector.
Thanks. Haven't looked at a map of divided Berlin in a while. Do you know the code for Gatow? Can't seem to find it.
I don't even know if it has a code, as I don't think any commercial flight was operated from there.
It is/was located in the British sector, completely west of former West-Berlin.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3265 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5617 times:
Thanks for the map. Now it makes sense. If I'd had the map in front of me when I posted, I wouldn't have made that mistake. I always liked THF. Remember the airport scene in the last Indiana Jones movie? It was filmed at THF. At least it will become a museum, which is what a grand old terminal should become.
The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.
Quoting Highpeaklad (Reply 4): Dan Air London also flew Berlin - Saarbrucken, and also charter flights, so I presume there were also other US/ French carriers.
Airlines flying to Berlin-Tegel up to 1990:
-Pan Am and Pan Am Express
-TWA
-Modern Air
-Air Berlin USA
-British Airways
-Dan Air
-Air France
-EuroBerlin France (-Lufthansa�s step in the door, having this joint airline with AF)
There was one airline called Tempelhof Airways USA flying from Tempelhof.
Gatow has mostly been served with British Helicopters and an
occasional RAF C-130.
Schoenefeld was the East-Berlin airport used by the East-German airline Interflug as well as Aeroflot and other East-European airlines such as LOT, Malev and CSA.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
SW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5534 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 10): Schoenefeld was the East-Berlin airport used by the East-German airline Interflug as well as Aeroflot and other East-European airlines such as LOT, Malev and CSA.
All my times in Berlin and Germany, this past winter was the first time I was ever at SXF. While the airport is very modern and updated, the train station, which I used to get to Prague from there, still screamed East German to my friend and I.
Very interesting topic though, I was always kind of curious about this too.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4685 posts, RR: 48 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5504 times:
No to forget that SXF was also used by western passengers for flights to Eastern Block countries. There was a special border station (at Waltersdorfer Chaussee in Rudow) and corridor from the very southeastern corner of West Berlin to SXF, which could only be used by Western citizens with a flight ticket on an Eastern Block airline from/ to SXF.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
HS748 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5478 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 10): The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.
Don't be so sensitive. He didn't say it was democratic, he just used part of the country's name.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6618 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5463 times:
The only BA flights to the GDR (East Germany) were, I believe, those to Leipzig at the times of the Leipzig Spring and Autumn Fairs. They only operated on the days that the Fairs were open so western exhibitors (who needed to set up their stand before the opening) had to find another way to get there.
We used to fly to TXL where a very luxurious East Berlin limo would collect us, drive us through Checkpoint Charlie and then on to a very luxurious, very expensive East Berlin hotel. There our local taxi - falling to bits with a trailer to put our stand materials in - would be waiting for the dirty, uncomfortable drive down the autobahn.
Leipzig was a revelation on my first visit for an autumn Fair. There was a permanent, brown smog (from burning soft, brown coal or lignite, the only indigenous fuel). Overhead (over the centre of the city) were intermittent sonic booms as the East German Air Force with their Soviet friends exercised ithout a thought about soud pollution and perhaps as a warning to their western visitors below.
The city was obviously beautiful if you could see below the thick layer of grime. Unless you were in the much too expensive foreigner only hotel, essentials in your travel bag were at least one roll of toilet paper and a plug to fit a basin (assuming you wanted to wash during your visit).
There was not much to do but eat in the evening - the East Germans were anxious to take (legitimately) as much hard currency off you as they could. So, for example, while prostitution was illegal in the GDR, government employed prostitutes frequented the bar in the aforementioned too-expensive hotel!
At the end of the Fair you packed up quickly and hurried to LEI to catch the last BA flight to LHR for six months!
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5411 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 15): The only BA flights to the GDR (East Germany) were, I believe, those to Leipzig at the times of the Leipzig Spring and Autumn Fairs. They only operated on the days that the Fairs were open so western exhibitors (who needed to set up their stand before the opening) had to find another way to get there.
Yes, I beleive it was the only time.
Quoting Columba (Reply 10): The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.
Is that the proper name for communist East Germany ?
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 73 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5379 times:
Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 16): Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.
Is that the proper name for communist East Germany ?
Yes - with the German name being "Deutsche Demokratische Republik", or DDR.
RichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5173 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19): That's what I thought also.But when I checked, I found that GWW is the code for Goldsboro-Wayne Municipal Airport (Notrh Carolina/U.S.A) ... Â Â
It used to use GWW as RAF Gatow, but currently has no 3 letter code assigned as GWW was reissued when the base was handed back, its 4 letter code is EDBG and it is a nonworking airfield.
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, RR: 61 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5053 times:
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 21): It used to use GWW as RAF Gatow, but currently has no 3 letter code assigned as GWW was reissued when the base was handed back, its 4 letter code is EDBG and it is a nonworking airfield.
Thanks for the clarification. That's what I missed.
Nice pictures from planes, taken at GWW :
Used to play in and around that aircraft in that exact position 20 years ago.
25 Patroni: When Air France started using the Caravelle on its flights to Berlin, they had to move from THF to TXL, as the runway in THF was insufficient for the
26 FlySSC: Actually, the Army of the 4 countries US, UK, France & the Soviet Union were free to go wherever they wanted in ALL Berlin at that time, including Eas
27 StarGoldLHR: Actually this was San Francisco Treasure Island Airport. Inside the airport's main building/musuem is the german swasticka used in the filming. The a
28 EddieDude: Which of the Berlin airports is going to become BBI?
29 FlySSC: SXF. Berlin-Schoenefeld. Well at least part of it ...
30 EddieDude: Thanks. Does anybody know what happened after a court issued an injunction against the closure of THF? Will it be definitively closed when BBI becomes
31 FlySSC: Both TXL and THF should be completely closed when BBI will be fully operational, as they are both completely IN the city of Berlin and have to face mo
32 757lgw: why is it that LH don't use Berlin as a major hub , i would have thought with it being a large capital city it would have been a popular choice , but
34 Monkeyboi: I lived in Berlin from 1984-1988 as a kid,always remember flyin home to uk using either BA 737-200 Txl-Lhr OR Britannia 737-200 from Gatow to Luton! h
35 Sukhoi: [ I know that Interflug had two flights a week from SXF to ARN so where else did they fly to western Europe and to Eastern Europe? Did they fly longha
36 PanHAM: [quote=FlySSC They had sovereign powers in their sectors, but had to ask for permission to cross over on friendly visits into the other sectors, as i
37 TriStar500: In late 1989, right before the fall of the Berlin Wall, Interflug flew to 51 destinations worldwide, among them 32 in Europe and 19 in the rest of th
38 Boeingguy1: A little off topic, but why exactly did the French get a slice of Berlin? Werent they out of the war pretty early?
39 Wrighbrothers: Although there was a stand off between 10 American and 10 Soviet tanks in the 60's at Check point charlie. Wrighbrothers
40 MainMAN: It's got everything to do with history. Firstly, West Berlin was no longer the natural choice for big German business headquarters after the war (ban
41 Sukhoi: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/9/98/Ausland_1973.JPG I´m very suprised that Influg did`nt serve more Western destinations 1973 than HEL, CP
43 PanHAM: I actually had that scene in mind. Pretty scary. . Well, if it wasn't for General de Gaulle, they might indeed have pulled the short straw. I think t
44 Patroni: Yes, IF flew to AMS, but same as KLM they had to leave SXF to the North, lease the GDR via teh baltic, cross Denmark and then fly Swouthwest over the
45 PanHAM: Their own fault, they did not let LH over East Germnany as well. "Costs" where not a matter in their economy anyhow, prestige and west money was. 5 P
46 Patroni: I am not sure if IF or even the GDR government had a say in that... to me it appears more that this was an agreement (or disagreement) between the 3
47 TriStar500: You are correct. The only airlines, which were allowed to fly directly to Berlin across the "no fly zone" along the border were companies of the four
48 KLMflyer: I have great memories of former East and West Berlin when for business reasons (travel industry) I used to commute twice a month between Milan and Ber
49 TriStar500: A little known fact is that LH, in order to gain access to the Berlin market pre-1990, founded a special airline just for the sake of flying routes fr
50 Columba: I remember the day the airline was introduced it was really a big deal since LH was a shareholder. Sadly I never flew with them but many of my relati
51 TriStar500: They were operating a handful of B737-300 wetleased from Monarch (except for the cabin crew). Soon after German reunification, AF withdrew from the p
52 BA: When I was in Berlin last year, I heard that Gatow Airport became a German military aircraft museum.
53 Columba: It is now the Luftwaffe-Museum with lots aircraft that have been in used with all German Airforces (from WWI, WWII, East and West Germany as well as
54 Tristarsteve: What year are you talking about? First time I flew to Berlin was on a BEA Bac111 in Sep 1972, and we landed in THF and parked under the canopy. Remem
55 Patroni: Just re-checked the date in a book ("Luftbr�cken nach Berlin" from Hans von Przychowski, highly recommendable but unfortunately only in German).
56 TristarSteve: So the few years later was about 15 years? In 1972 BEA had a fleet of about 10 BAC111 based in THF. When did they move to TXL? I didn't go to BER aga
57 Patroni: Ah well, 1960-75 appears to be a few years from today's perspective AF stayed in TXL all the time since 1960, PA joined them with a DC-8 flight to JF
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