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Berlin Airports When The City Was Divided  
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6529 times:

How were Berlin airports used when there were the Federal and the Democrat Germany? Were them all 3 used for all destinations/people or they were dedicated for eastern and western citizens?

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6513 times:

THF was in the US sector and PanAm used to run their IGS (Internal German Service) from there until the '70s, when it moved to TXL in the British sector. BEA ran services to London, AF ran flights to Paris, and the US ran services to JFK and West Germany. AFAIK, no other airlines were allowed in West Berlin. East Berlin had SXF, and Interflug was based there.


It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 1):
when it moved to TXL in the British sector

TXL was in the FRENCH sector, not the British one.
Another airfield called Berlin-Gatow was located in the British sector.



[Edited 2006-06-11 16:35:49]

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6474 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
TXL was in the FRENCH sector, not the British one.
Another airfield called Berlin-Gatow was located in the British sector.

Thanks. Haven't looked at a map of divided Berlin in a while. Do you know the code for Gatow? Can't seem to find it.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineHighpeaklad From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Dan Air London also flew Berlin - Saarbrucken, and also charter flights, so I presume there were also other US/ French carriers.

Chris



Don't try to keep up with the Joneses - bring them down to your level !
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 3):
Do you know the code for Gatow?

I don't even know if it has a code, as I don't think any commercial flight was operated from there.
It is/was located in the British sector, completely west of former West-Berlin.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

Thanks for the map. Now it makes sense. If I'd had the map in front of me when I posted, I wouldn't have made that mistake. I always liked THF. Remember the airport scene in the last Indiana Jones movie? It was filmed at THF. At least it will become a museum, which is what a grand old terminal should become.


It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Here is a link for informations about Berlin-Gatow :

http://www.planeboys.de/gww/the_airfield_gatow.htm


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

I seriously doubt Gatow has any codes... according to the following link, it's been closed since 1995.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatow_Airport

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Apparently, BEA operated commercial flights from Gatow to LHR via HAM, with DC3 back in 1945. The flights were quickly transfered to/from THF.

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
Federal and the Democrat Germany?

The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.

Quoting Highpeaklad (Reply 4):
Dan Air London also flew Berlin - Saarbrucken, and also charter flights, so I presume there were also other US/ French carriers.

Airlines flying to Berlin-Tegel up to 1990:
-Pan Am and Pan Am Express
-TWA
-Modern Air
-Air Berlin USA
-British Airways
-Dan Air
-Air France
-EuroBerlin France (-Lufthansa�s step in the door, having this joint airline with AF)

There was one airline called Tempelhof Airways USA flying from Tempelhof.
Gatow has mostly been served with British Helicopters and an
occasional RAF C-130.

Schoenefeld was the East-Berlin airport used by the East-German airline Interflug as well as Aeroflot and other East-European airlines such as LOT, Malev and CSA.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
Schoenefeld was the East-Berlin airport used by the East-German airline Interflug as well as Aeroflot and other East-European airlines such as LOT, Malev and CSA.

All my times in Berlin and Germany, this past winter was the first time I was ever at SXF. While the airport is very modern and updated, the train station, which I used to get to Prague from there, still screamed East German to my friend and I.

Very interesting topic though, I was always kind of curious about this too.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
I don't even know if it has a code, as I don't think any commercial flight was operated from there.

Yes there was, I flew several times from Gatow (lived on the base from 1984 to 1990).


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6347 times:

No to forget that SXF was also used by western passengers for flights to Eastern Block countries. There was a special border station (at Waltersdorfer Chaussee in Rudow) and corridor from the very southeastern corner of West Berlin to SXF, which could only be used by Western citizens with a flight ticket on an Eastern Block airline from/ to SXF.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineHS748 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.

Don't be so sensitive. He didn't say it was democratic, he just used part of the country's name.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7391 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

The only BA flights to the GDR (East Germany) were, I believe, those to Leipzig at the times of the Leipzig Spring and Autumn Fairs. They only operated on the days that the Fairs were open so western exhibitors (who needed to set up their stand before the opening) had to find another way to get there.

We used to fly to TXL where a very luxurious East Berlin limo would collect us, drive us through Checkpoint Charlie and then on to a very luxurious, very expensive East Berlin hotel. There our local taxi - falling to bits with a trailer to put our stand materials in - would be waiting for the dirty, uncomfortable drive down the autobahn.

Leipzig was a revelation on my first visit for an autumn Fair. There was a permanent, brown smog (from burning soft, brown coal or lignite, the only indigenous fuel). Overhead (over the centre of the city) were intermittent sonic booms as the East German Air Force with their Soviet friends exercised ithout a thought about soud pollution and perhaps as a warning to their western visitors below.

The city was obviously beautiful if you could see below the thick layer of grime. Unless you were in the much too expensive foreigner only hotel, essentials in your travel bag were at least one roll of toilet paper and a plug to fit a basin (assuming you wanted to wash during your visit).

There was not much to do but eat in the evening - the East Germans were anxious to take (legitimately) as much hard currency off you as they could. So, for example, while prostitution was illegal in the GDR, government employed prostitutes frequented the bar in the aforementioned too-expensive hotel!

At the end of the Fair you packed up quickly and hurried to LEI to catch the last BA flight to LHR for six months!


User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
The only BA flights to the GDR (East Germany) were, I believe, those to Leipzig at the times of the Leipzig Spring and Autumn Fairs. They only operated on the days that the Fairs were open so western exhibitors (who needed to set up their stand before the opening) had to find another way to get there.

Yes, I beleive it was the only time.

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.

Is that the proper name for communist East Germany ?

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 3):
Do you know the code for Gatow?

It's GWW.

Wrightbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
At the end of the Fair you packed up quickly and hurried to LEI to catch the last BA flight to LHR for six months!

Must have been a fair old drive  Smile

I think its LEJ?


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6222 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 16):
Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
The Federal Republic of Germany was the democratic part.
Despite of having the word "democratic" in it the "German Democratic Republic" was not democratic at all.

Is that the proper name for communist East Germany ?

Yes - with the German name being "Deutsche Demokratische Republik", or DDR.

Quoting DavidT (Reply 17):
I think its LEJ?

Correct, Leipzig is LEJ; LEI is Almeria in Spain.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 16):
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 3):
Do you know the code for Gatow?

It's GWW.

That's what I thought also.But when I checked, I found that GWW is the code for Goldsboro-Wayne Municipal Airport (Notrh Carolina/U.S.A) ...  scratchchin 


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

Quoting HS748 (Reply 14):
Don't be so sensitive. He didn't say it was democratic, he just used part of the country's name.



Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 16):
Is that the proper name for communist East Germany ?

Not being sensitive at all just clearification for those who don´ t know  Wink



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6016 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
That's what I thought also.But when I checked, I found that GWW is the code for Goldsboro-Wayne Municipal Airport (Notrh Carolina/U.S.A) ...   

It used to use GWW as RAF Gatow, but currently has no 3 letter code assigned as GWW was reissued when the base was handed back, its 4 letter code is EDBG and it is a nonworking airfield.


User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5978 times:

Laker also had quite a big charter operation out of TXL

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 21):
It used to use GWW as RAF Gatow, but currently has no 3 letter code assigned as GWW was reissued when the base was handed back, its 4 letter code is EDBG and it is a nonworking airfield.

Thanks for the clarification. That's what I missed.
Nice pictures from planes, taken at GWW :

http://www.planeboys.de/


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5890 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 23):
Nice pictures from planes, taken at GWW :

http://www.planeboys.de/

Thanks for that link, brought back some memories  Smile

http://www.planeboys.de/gww/raf/hastings_tg503.htm

Used to play in and around that aircraft in that exact position 20 years ago.


25 Patroni : When Air France started using the Caravelle on its flights to Berlin, they had to move from THF to TXL, as the runway in THF was insufficient for the
26 Post contains images FlySSC : Actually, the Army of the 4 countries US, UK, France & the Soviet Union were free to go wherever they wanted in ALL Berlin at that time, including Eas
27 StarGoldLHR : Actually this was San Francisco Treasure Island Airport. Inside the airport's main building/musuem is the german swasticka used in the filming. The a
28 EddieDude : Which of the Berlin airports is going to become BBI?
29 FlySSC : SXF. Berlin-Schoenefeld. Well at least part of it ...
30 EddieDude : Thanks. Does anybody know what happened after a court issued an injunction against the closure of THF? Will it be definitively closed when BBI becomes
31 FlySSC : Both TXL and THF should be completely closed when BBI will be fully operational, as they are both completely IN the city of Berlin and have to face mo
32 757lgw : why is it that LH don't use Berlin as a major hub , i would have thought with it being a large capital city it would have been a popular choice , but
33 TriStar500 : No. Lack of high-yielding demand.
34 Monkeyboi : I lived in Berlin from 1984-1988 as a kid,always remember flyin home to uk using either BA 737-200 Txl-Lhr OR Britannia 737-200 from Gatow to Luton! h
35 Sukhoi : [ I know that Interflug had two flights a week from SXF to ARN so where else did they fly to western Europe and to Eastern Europe? Did they fly longha
36 PanHAM : [quote=FlySSC They had sovereign powers in their sectors, but had to ask for permission to cross over on friendly visits into the other sectors, as i
37 Post contains links TriStar500 : In late 1989, right before the fall of the Berlin Wall, Interflug flew to 51 destinations worldwide, among them 32 in Europe and 19 in the rest of th
38 Boeingguy1 : A little off topic, but why exactly did the French get a slice of Berlin? Werent they out of the war pretty early?
39 Wrighbrothers : Although there was a stand off between 10 American and 10 Soviet tanks in the 60's at Check point charlie. Wrighbrothers
40 MainMAN : It's got everything to do with history. Firstly, West Berlin was no longer the natural choice for big German business headquarters after the war (ban
41 Post contains links Sukhoi : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/9/98/Ausland_1973.JPG I´m very suprised that Influg did`nt serve more Western destinations 1973 than HEL, CP
42 F.pier : When did Interflug cease operations?
43 PanHAM : I actually had that scene in mind. Pretty scary. . Well, if it wasn't for General de Gaulle, they might indeed have pulled the short straw. I think t
44 Patroni : Yes, IF flew to AMS, but same as KLM they had to leave SXF to the North, lease the GDR via teh baltic, cross Denmark and then fly Swouthwest over the
45 PanHAM : Their own fault, they did not let LH over East Germnany as well. "Costs" where not a matter in their economy anyhow, prestige and west money was. 5 P
46 Post contains images Patroni : I am not sure if IF or even the GDR government had a say in that... to me it appears more that this was an agreement (or disagreement) between the 3
47 TriStar500 : You are correct. The only airlines, which were allowed to fly directly to Berlin across the "no fly zone" along the border were companies of the four
48 KLMflyer : I have great memories of former East and West Berlin when for business reasons (travel industry) I used to commute twice a month between Milan and Ber
49 Post contains images TriStar500 : A little known fact is that LH, in order to gain access to the Berlin market pre-1990, founded a special airline just for the sake of flying routes fr
50 Columba : I remember the day the airline was introduced it was really a big deal since LH was a shareholder. Sadly I never flew with them but many of my relati
51 TriStar500 : They were operating a handful of B737-300 wetleased from Monarch (except for the cabin crew). Soon after German reunification, AF withdrew from the p
52 BA : When I was in Berlin last year, I heard that Gatow Airport became a German military aircraft museum.
53 Columba : It is now the Luftwaffe-Museum with lots aircraft that have been in used with all German Airforces (from WWI, WWII, East and West Germany as well as
54 Tristarsteve : What year are you talking about? First time I flew to Berlin was on a BEA Bac111 in Sep 1972, and we landed in THF and parked under the canopy. Remem
55 Patroni : Just re-checked the date in a book ("Luftbr�cken nach Berlin" from Hans von Przychowski, highly recommendable but unfortunately only in German).
56 TristarSteve : So the few years later was about 15 years? In 1972 BEA had a fleet of about 10 BAC111 based in THF. When did they move to TXL? I didn't go to BER aga
57 Post contains images Patroni : Ah well, 1960-75 appears to be a few years from today's perspective AF stayed in TXL all the time since 1960, PA joined them with a DC-8 flight to JF
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