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Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!  
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6723 times:

I was just looking round for an Air NZ flight to London in August and found a rather startling piece of information that I had never heard of before.

Apparently, Air NZ no longer reward passengers travelling on their "Global Maxi Saver" (or whatever they're called) fares. Exactly when did this happen and why are they now treating economy pax like dirt? I wouldn't mind, of course, if they in fact offered lower prices in exchange for fewer benefits, but instead the cheapest possible fare (before airport/security charges) was NZ$2,700.

When compared to just about every other airline flying between NZ and Europe, not only do most (if not all) offer some form of frequent flyer reward, but they are also substantially cheaper.

So, just to update for those who might be considering joing the stingiest frequent flyer scheme in the entire world...

1. Charge of NZ$50 to join (so very prestigious you see)
2. Penalty of 20-30 (I forget exactly how many) NZ Airdollars a year for avoiding their declining service like the plague
3. Absolutely no rewards for long haul economy, "Global Maix- whatever" class

I suggest to anyone thinking of joining, to simply not. More a public service announcement than anything.

127 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6709 times:



May I recommend this product. Very effective for those choking on their own indignation  Wink



-
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

Well you are lucky then that there are lots of other airlines for you to choose.

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6656 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 1):
May I recommend this product. Very effective for those choking on their own indignation

Exactly the kind of dismissive, arrogant response I have come to expect from NZ employees. Thank you for reaffiriming that it is a just and valid observation that public sector employees are, by and large, this way inclined.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 2):
Well you are lucky then that there are lots of other airlines for you to choose.

Oh yes, after having paid $50 for the "priviledge" of being an Airpoints member. But you're right, lucky I have the opportunity to fly other airlines. I am curiouos though, has NZ decided to pursue a policy of making it a lot easier to use Airpoints, while simultaneously making it a hell of a lot harder to actually earn those Airpoints? And if so, has this been announced previously?


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 3):
Quoting TG992 (Reply 1):
May I recommend this product. Very effective for those choking on their own indignation

Exactly the kind of dismissive, arrogant response I have come to expect from NZ employees. Thank you for reaffiriming that it is a just and valid observation that public sector employees are, by and large, this way inclined.

Aerokiwi you set yourself up for that one. You are often having a go at NZ so its to be expected that an NZ employee is going to say something to you even if it might be tongue in cheek.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 3):
And if so, has this been announced previously?

Yes I have been aware of this am I'm not worried. I am flying to MNL later this year on SQ and the ticket has no points on it so it might not just be a NZ thing. From what I understand NZ are pitching Airpoints at the frequent long-haul traveller not the one who makes one long-haul trip a year. And anyway here in NZ there are a number of ways of increasing your Airpoints balance without flying.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6632 times:

I have long discovered that people at Airpoints are full of crap. You know how they claim Airpoints is now based on fares paid not distance flown. And yet when Air NZ announced that all the fares were going to increase by 10% you know what they did. They raised the Airpoints redemption rates by 10% and earning rate unchanged. And that applis to all Star Alliance partners. I fail to see how a 10% NZ fare increase has anything to do with partners.

And don't forget they charge $100 per booking for all Star awards.

[Edited 2006-06-14 05:24:24]

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
Aerokiwi you set yourself up for that one. You are often having a go at NZ so its to be expected that an NZ employee is going to say something to you even if it might be tongue in cheek.

And got EXACTLY what I was hoping for, legitimising increased scrutiny and criticism of the airline. You know, that thing you are so against. I never realised pointing out inherent contradictions and company PR bollacks was "having a go at Air NZ", but if so, then so be it, I shall continue to do so.

Interestingly, the department I work for within this (publicly owned and run) organisation recently (a few weeks ago) changed its staff travel policy to pretty much avoid NZ wherever possible, including domestic services. (Though because of the large amount of Pacific Island travel a lot of staff do here, NZ will still be used there.) The reasons for this were never made clear, instead being described in the email as a measure enforced "due to a series of service changes by Air New Zealand in relation to alternative carriers' offerings".

I'm starting to think I know what those service changes are.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
And anyway here in NZ there are a number of ways of increasing your Airpoints balance without flying.

If you mean credit cards, they increased fees and reduced points-earned about a year ago I believe (maybe more), making the earning of Airpoints even harder. Again, NZ gives with one hand (redeeming points made easier) but fully takes with the other (earning points now nigh on impossible).

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
Yes I have been aware of this am I'm not worried. I am flying to MNL later this year on SQ and the ticket has no points on it so it might not just be a NZ thing.

I wonder, are you using an NZ frequent flyer card or SQ? If SQ, did you pay $50 for the "honour" of being a member? And do competitors offer cheaper fares and rewards on this route? Because THAT is the situation we are discussing here.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6566 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
If you mean credit cards, they increased fees and reduced points-earned about a year ago I believe (maybe more), making the earning of Airpoints even harder. Again, NZ gives with one hand (redeeming points made easier) but fully takes with the other (earning points now nigh on impossible).

I totally agree with this. If you think about it, NZ don't need Airbucks to make all seats available to Airpoints. It could simply increase the number of kilometers/miles needed to purchase the next available seat. All NZ did was playing some mind game which only made people realize the good part and hiding the worse part so well. Maybe the Commerce Commission should look into this as well.


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):

If you mean credit cards, they increased fees and reduced points-earned about a year ago I believe (maybe more), making the earning of Airpoints even harder. Again, NZ gives with one hand (redeeming points made easier) but fully takes with the other (earning points now nigh on impossible).

Yeah. I use my credit card lots and am doing OK with getting Airpoints so I can't complain. Earning points isn't impossible, it's all in how you manage what is available to you to get points.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
I wonder, are you using an NZ frequent flyer card or SQ? If SQ, did you pay $50 for the "honour" of being a member? And do competitors offer cheaper fares and rewards on this route? Because THAT is the situation we are discussing here.

No points were available to anyone regardless of which airlines scheme you were a member on. For the dates I am travelling they were the cheapest. I guess if I wanted points I could have chosen more. I think SQ is free to join.

Anyway you paid the $50 to join, as did I. It's their program and they reserve the right to change the rule, you know that when you join. From what I have heard they are not alone in trying to make a FF scheme more financialy viable for the airline running it. You're gutted you paid $50 for a scheme which is no longer working for you. That's life man, you win some you loose some. In the grand scheme of things its not that massive, I mean we still live in a great place and have jobs etc. I don't mean to be smart just provide a little perspective.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6544 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Many airlines have low or no ff earning ability on lower fare classes ( CX , SQ , BD to name a few ) - while it may seem a bit hard on those travelling on the lower fares it is certainly more equitable for those travelling on the higher yield ones - in the bad old days someone travelling on a full business fare AKL-LON earned only 25% more points than someone travelling on the cheapest economy class fare in spite of often having paid 4 times as much for the ticket - a common practice with many airlines and certainly a slap in the face to those high end passengers who constitute the real Frequent Flyers for an airline rather than those travelling every couple of years on cheap tickets .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Well - I'm a person who still has a quarter of a million QF FF points, earned before changing back to NZ and becoming Gold on them very quickly. It is true that generating on NZ is stingier, but just try USING the oh so generous QF points in any way that is half way reasonably convenient.

I knew all about the changes at NZ when that happened. I am pretty much happy wih NZ except for their continued use of the hell at LAX - which is what drove me to QF in the first place. When they start the HKG route I'll be quite happy (although Fyfe's comments about the LHR services made me nervous).

Fortunately I now have an escape from my hitherto unusable QF points. They are redeemable on Air Vanuatu, you can actually get seats to Port Vila, and my son has just gone to live there. There is the irritation of the day old bread in the QF lounges at AKL, but you can't have everything....

On the whole Aerokiwi's postings here don't accord to my general experience. And the new cabins are superb.

Oh yes, and anyone who takes cheap shots at anyone just on the basis of stereotypes about who they are and where they work is beneath my contempt. (But I'm always happy to take cheap shots at people who take cheap shots).


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 8):
No points were available to anyone regardless of which airlines scheme you were a member on. For the dates I am travelling they were the cheapest. I guess if I wanted points I could have chosen more. I think SQ is free to join.

Then it's not a fair comparison. Give me a situation where there are a number of airlines offering competitive fares and offering benefits, like we currently have on the NZ-Europe market, and we've got something to compare it to.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 8):
Anyway you paid the $50 to join, as did I. It's their program and they reserve the right to change the rule, you know that when you join.

Yes but at the time of joining I doubt many people had access to market information regarding alternative schemes. I'm absolutely positive that Air NZ relies on imperfect knowledge to get away with the $50 fee. Most people probably just assume it's normal. Well it's not and they should be told (I look forward to hearing the bleats about it being their own fault).

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
Many airlines have low or no ff earning ability on lower fare classes ( CX , SQ , BD to name a few )

Are these on longhaul flights (shorthaul seems to be just about all non-ff these days)? Are their fares competitive with the competition? That is, are the fares offered by BD, CX etc reflective of the lower service offering, in relation to the competition?

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 10):
Oh yes, and anyone who takes cheap shots at anyone just on the basis of stereotypes about who they are and where they work is beneath my contempt. (But I'm always happy to take cheap shots at people who take cheap shots).

Aren't we high and mighty? Reply 1 by TG992 was smart-a**e at best. It added nothing, explained nothing. I have equal contempt for such responses. There was no argument, no reasoning, no substance, simply a dismissive response. Again, I don't mind being wrong when things are explained reasonably and logically, but if you're not even going to offer that in a post, why bother posting?

And as someone who works in the public service, I know all too well the attitude of such employees. It is something i have noticed a lot in Air NZ of late, from management down. There's even a play being re-released about such behaviour - I suggest you see it Rongotai. So forgive me if my experiences with the "public face" of Air NZ lead me to draw conclusions about the company as a whole. I believe that's partly what public-face employees are there to do.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6500 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 11):
Yes but at the time of joining I doubt many people had access to market information regarding alternative schemes.

I am not sure whether you are serious - if people fail to shop around and make comparisons then they only have themselves to blame if they dont get the best deal



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

Ah yes! That's me. High and mighty. Thanks for recognising my thoroughly deserved status.

User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 11):
Then it's not a fair comparison. Give me a situation where there are a number of airlines offering competitive fares and offering benefits, like we currently have on the NZ-Europe market, and we've got something to compare it to.

What I meant was I chose the cheapest SQ fare. There was CX/SQ/QF/MH and Asiana to choose from but were just a little more expensive. (I'm travelling with 7 other people hence real cheap fare) They all had points etc. Is that what you are after?


User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

A few things-

1) My understanding when Air NZ launched Airpoints Dollars was that the whole concept was based around frequent fliers being able to earn points/miles on every flight (i.e. regardless of the special t&c or how cheap the fare was). Certainly this was how it was marketed. To me this is the whole point of Airpoints Dollars and it is based on valid principles - they are rewarding customers directly on the amount of money spent with the airline. They should have a really basic table and then provide bonuses or premiums for higher yielding fares rather than penalising loyal customers.

2) Although many airlines have fare classes, specials, etc which are not elegible for frequent flier points/miles, I comlpetely DISAGREE with the principle. Airlines are supposed to be rewarding people who choose to fly them in an environment of very stiff competition - there are always going to be other carriers with specials which force airlines to lower the cost, but marketing loyalty benefits is a strong point of product differentiation.

3) But my all time pet peeve with respect to FFP programmes are the ones which implement 'service charges', 'fuel levies', etc on redemption bookings! For goodness sake, this is part of the airlines' operational costs!!! When are consumer watchdogs finally going to clue on to this and insist that fuel charges, taxes, and 'additional overcharges' are fully included and not segregated in the advertised fares.

I tell you, if I wasn't an industry employee, had been earning miles, and then the airline which I had been loyal to for so long told me I had to pay the late 1990's fare cost in these charges alone just for a 'free' redemption ticket I would be pretty annoyed and would pursue legal action. Sure, they will fall back on their terms and conditions, but I can immediately think of several areas where they would be liable under misrepresentating or misleading advertising. The basic premises is that if the consumer does not have the option of availing the service without these charges, they should not be be excluded in advertised fares.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6482 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 15):
1) My understanding when Air NZ launched Airpoints Dollars was that the whole concept was based around frequent fliers being able to earn points/miles on every flight (i.e. regardless of the special t&c or how cheap the fare was). Certainly this was how it was marketed.

no ,it was marketed around being able to SPEND them on any seat on any flight - unlike the previous scheme , which , like most others , limited redemptions to a specific number of seats on any given flight ... and if those had already gone you were SOOL no matter how many points you hd

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 15):
2) Although many airlines have fare classes, specials, etc which are not elegible for frequent flier points/miles, I comlpetely DISAGREE with the principle. Airlines are supposed to be rewarding people who choose to fly them in an environment of very stiff competition - there are always going to be other carriers with specials which force airlines to lower the cost, but marketing loyalty benefits is a strong point of product differentiation.

so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .

That's a good call. When someone flies once a year long-haul chances are they have chosen on price not out of loyalty and are on a discounted ticket that the airlines are not making much, if any cash on. Why should they be rewarded?


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .

Not at all. But simply offer a tiered level of rewards as so many other carriers do. For example, 50-70 percent for the cheaper economy fares, 100 percent for full-economy etc.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
am not sure whether you are serious - if people fail to shop around and make comparisons then they only have themselves to blame if they dont get the best deal

Hardly. I would argue there is a general misunderstanding perpetuated by airlines that frequent flyer schemes are often nationality based. And remember that an awful lot of members joined well before the days of widespread internet, eg. 1990s. Even now, where do you expect someone with NO knowledge of the industry to start seeking information? You go to the internet and google frequent flyer schemes from new zealand and what exactly do you think will appear?

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 14):
What I meant was I chose the cheapest SQ fare. There was CX/SQ/QF/MH and Asiana to choose from but were just a little more expensive. (I'm travelling with 7 other people hence real cheap fare) They all had points etc. Is that what you are after?

Ah, so SQ offered the cheapest fare available and offered the level of service corresponding with that fare.

Air NZ's approach is to charge the highest fares in the market but provide a service that does not reflect those fares. I was ready to give NZ longhaul a go. MH, here I come.

[Edited 2006-06-14 08:14:55]

User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 18):
MH, here I come.

Well enjoy I hear they are great!  Yeah sure


User currently offlineAlaskaqantas From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

I will admit that I'm not all to thrilled about the whole AIRPOINTS thing. It not the best system, I have been trying to get points on my dads account when he flew from AKL-SFO and back in premium, but you have to keep the ticket... well he didn't do that so now... to put it bluntly... we don't have as many points.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.
I don't want to say that it's terrible and I want to shot NZ, no I'm glad that I can even get some airpoints, but for such a good airline I'm surprised.. thats it



to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6346 times:

I was with them but when you only get 300 AP for a return LHR-AKL its a joke, gone back to good old BD - now back up to 'Star Alliance Silver' one return trip with them on LHR-AKL gets you 22,000 miles and only need 38,000 to reach Gold, the whole anz program is not as easy as it is made out to be,


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6324 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 11):
Aren't we high and mighty?

When you fly as much as Rongotai does you can afford to have an elevated (and more enlightened) opinion of airlines & the benefits & disadvantages of air travel.

I actually agree with NZ's policy on airpoints. Passengers that are not willing to fork out the cash should not be having their cake and eating it too. Airpoints programs are a massive liability for any airline, and for someone that flies infrequently to be a gold status member does not give enough value to those Gold Elites that spend upward of $20,000NZD a year to maintain their status and advantages that they actually deserve. For those who want to just buy their way into status we have the Koru Club... End of Story.

Frequent Flyer means just that... Status in return for true loyalty - not for those who pay the cheapest ticket and expect the earth in return.


User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6324 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 15):
2) Although many airlines have fare classes, specials, etc which are not elegible for frequent flier points/miles, I comlpetely DISAGREE with the principle. Airlines are supposed to be rewarding people who choose to fly them in an environment of very stiff competition - there are always going to be other carriers with specials which force airlines to lower the cost, but marketing loyalty benefits is a strong point of product differentiation.

so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .

If you read my statement carefully, you will see that I do indeed mention that it is an issue with many airlines. Secondly, as I alluded to, this was how I believed Airpoints Dollars were marketed - you pay a higher fare you receive more reward, you pay a rock-bottom fare you get a rock-bottom loyalty recognition.

The concept is Loyalty, and there is no difference between that and a credit card for instance. Are you suggesting that credit cards don't give you loyalty points if you purchase items on special in shops? If you spend one dollar on your credit card you get one point. If you spend 1,000 dollars you get 1,000 points.

Again, if you read my statement clearly, you will see I also suggested providing benefit premiums for higher yielding tickets.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

That isn't even the worst of it.

I recently flew on several BD flights in economy subclasses for which BD say that they awarded (and allocated to Air NZ) 50% of the standard economy class points. BDs classes Q, V and O aren't even tiny fares (which earn only 25%).

But Air NZ, contrary to what my Airpoints manual and their own website said at the time, now say that BD classes Q and V earn no points.

Now I know damn well that they do, but that NZ basically steals those points from its frequent flyers. But they know that we're not going to go to court for the sake of a few dollars.


25 Nz777 : Another perspective I had previously booked a business companion FF ticket on NZ for AKL/HKG/SIN/AKL (yes I wanted both my partner & i to experience b
26 AKLDELNonstop : Hey Guys, My 2 cents. I neither agree nor disagree with NZ's policy. After all it is there policy. But from my point of view, that is of a customer, w
27 Nzrich : I know there are some emotive comments regarding Reward schemes .. In the end with most airlines now feeling the pinch in the bottom line i wouldn't b
28 Luftaom : I'm sure NZ taxpayers are glad to know that their taxes are being wisely spent on your frequent flyer balance.
29 Aerokiwi : Arguably, New Zealand taxpayers should be concerned that they are paying higher prices and receiving lower service than competing carriers for short-
30 Skyhigh : Virgin Blue have a great advertising campaign slogan here in Sydney at the moment "Loyalty shouldn't come at a cost" (or something to that effect). It
31 RichardJF : This is how you deal with FF program. Lease the RG 772's ,drop LHR,start la-nice-hk,start aca-stn low frequency, rekindle stoddart, drop Q c/s, A380 d
32 ZK-NBT : I've not read the whole thread but what on earth is it now? WLG-DRW-LAX-DEL-TPE-AKL-FUK-NCE-Malalga?
33 Koruman : I'm never quite sure whether RichardJF is winding us up or whether he honestly means some of the stuff he keeps posting, so I'll take it seriously and
34 Luftaom : Why? I would have thought it would have meant that the public service was paying lower fares out of consolidated revenue and receiving transportation
35 NZ8800 : I can only say I had no trouble whatever either earning or spending Airpoints with Air New Zealand. I paid the mid range fares to earn the Airpoints -
36 Post contains images Aerokiwi : Unfortunately, in the long-run, that's a recipe for a collapsed carrier. But their service standards are continuing to decline, with airfares not ref
37 TG992 : Care to elaborate? Are you referring to the reduced offerings Trans-Tasman, which happened well over 2 years ago? Or is this one of those fantastical
38 Koruman : TG992, the Trans-Tasman service levels are a real issue, because a large part of the market to and from SFO and LAX is actually to Australia via NZ, r
39 TG992 : You poor wee thing - three hours in the exact same aircraft type as you've just flown LHR-LAX-AKL in, with the same crew, same seat, and same IFE, wi
40 NZ8800 : I don't agree. Certainly there is a place for foreign investment, but it's a double edged sword with a lot of profits running out of the country. I s
41 Aerokiwi : There's the attitude the prevails at air NZ - you wanted an example TG992 - well there it is for all to see. It's not a matter of whether you agree o
42 TG992 : I asked for an example of the declining service standards you constantly mention. That was me posting on my own time on an internet forum. I ask agai
43 Post contains images TG992 : Stepping aside from the 'debate' for a moment - a big change to NZ domestic services is being planned and will be launched next week. I'm sure it will
44 TG992 : Mate where have you been???? These are a few of our partner airlines and what booking classes you don't earn points on. JP - I,R,E,X,N AC - Z, D, X,
45 TG992 : Well it would wouldn't it??? Airpoint Dollars can you be used like cash to by tickets. We all know it's not real money and airpoints were devided at
46 Post contains images 1des1 : Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum, I've been reading it for a while now so thought I should start to contribute!! I have flown NZ a lot
47 Post contains images NZFan : I can already hear a few on a.net going "Oh no I'm paying a cheap fare, and i have to pay for drink and food, what a rip off"
48 RichardJF : Diversifying away from flying people to/from New Zealand should be a key objective for NZ. Even for the NZ/UK market LHR is in fact a very poor way to
49 TG992 : If your are putting tours through NZ then you would normally get some kind of industry privileges on NZ. Let's go back to my 74/1 calculation. AKLSYD
50 1Des1 : Yes this is true but AD75's are no longer what they used to be on NZ, they have cut back industry perks ALOT more then QF for example. Once again bac
51 TG992 : Wish I could give out the numbers for industry travel... the right partners do get VERY good deals! Yes, confirmed at anytime if there is seats! cost
52 1Des1 : Another major disadvantage with APD is the earning rates from Credit Cards - don't forget these changed substantially with the change, you used to be
53 1Des1 : Just found another good comparison.. QF has $216.7 Million of Frequent Flyer Benefits owing (2004: $251.6 Million) being a much larger Airline these
54 TG992 : To be honest, this is crap. Who cares you are banking with one bank over another, what has this got to do with how good or bad the airline is?? In my
55 1Des1 : Morning! I didn't make the comment about whether it made NZ better or not, just showing how it is now compared to before. I don't agree that people o
56 Aerokiwi : Read the forums and yes, even speak to friends, family and work colleagues - Air NZ's service standards have declined over recent years. The Tasman i
57 Post contains images 1Des1 : The flight to Perth from Auckland does not operate under the "Tasman Express" service, it is a full service. So you get the complementary beverages a
58 RichardJF : NZ doesn't necessarily have to drop LHR but go from a starting point on London that the others have the natural business case because their in the mid
59 TG992 : Meals are under review right now. We realise they are not where they need to be in the level of standard. Remember some airlines don't offer meals an
60 Antskip : Very good news the "cafe style" Tasman offering is under review! But I can tell you, most cafes I go to provide much better fare. Is it really is a 3
61 Post contains images TG992 : Thanks, my alter ego As someone who has to eat the Express meals a lot more frequently than any other poster here (with the exception of nzrich) I ca
62 Antskip : I think we'll have to agree to preferring different restaurants! (grin). I'll stick to my cattle-class dinner on EK AKL-MEL, as follows (read from th
63 TG992 : Yes, the menu's language is very flowery, and does a great job talking up food that's about the same quality as frozen microwave dinners (because tha
64 Koruman : TG993, you are wrong when you say that it is always the other airlines which don't award points in certain fare classes. Almost all of the BD short-ha
65 Post contains links ANstar : Intersting comparison from Flyertalk http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=571187 Earning AKL-LAX-AKL in discount economy for "gold" level U
66 Post contains images NZ8800 : I hate to say it but you may well be right on this one. People do mostly care about their wallets. On the other hand, there will be some who care mor
67 Antskip : Don't some of the NZ flights go on from MEL/SYD-AKL to the US? B474's? They don't seem that different from the EK method (New Zealand as add-on to Au
68 NZ8800 : I was speaking of the NZ meals not EK. Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant, do NZ load the AKL-MEL-AKL Tasman Express meals for NZ5/6 in AKL,
69 TG992 : My information might be a little out of date for BD but that's not the whole point, most airlines are starting to introduce these fares which don't a
70 Koruman : TG 992, I am a loyal Air NZ customer but I can't believe what you are posting here. As I've said, there is no issue when no points are awarded by the
71 AKLDELNonstop : Just FYI, TG does offer miles on Q class, and complete miles at that Cheers
72 Antskip : We are getting a bit off-topic. On that, EK provide a very good, free, frequent flyer programme for even cattle class on the Tasman. As for trans-Tas
73 TG992 : I would be calling Air NZ, if he missed by two airpoint dollars they MIGHT keep him as GE.
74 Post contains links and images 1Des1 : Virgin Blue / Pacific Blue etc does have FF system. http://www.velocityrewards.com.au/ You earn points based on dollars spent and can redeem then on
75 Zkpilot : not at all... NZ has less crew in Economy because NZ has less Economy passengers... why is this? because unlike other airlines that offer 31" seat pi
76 TG992 : Stop exaggerating. An antiquated fleet is Northwest with their 40 year old DC9s, or Saha-Air with their 707s. Let's try and cut the hyperbole, huh? O
77 Antskip : Yep, I admit to exageration there - I had a concern about that choice of words. It described a personal and qualitative experience of the in-flight p
78 RichardJF : With airbus a bit on the ropes NZ should get 345's. Even though etops may be extended a 345 operator can always start talking safety vs 2 engines whic
79 1Des1 : I have heard through a pilot (Not sure if it's 100 % Accurate) that EK's maintenance on there new birds is not what it is supposed to be. Apparently
80 Zkpilot : Possibly due to TG having a whole bunch of dedicated F/A's for First Class (which NZ does not have...) So when it comes down to it the passengers in
81 TG992 : We had the same number of f/a when we did have a first class, which did have dedicated f/a's.
82 Zkpilot : so in other words F/A's available to other passengers is now higher than previously as they are not tied up serving just a few First Class pax.
83 ZK-NBT : Those aircraft are 2 class that seat 412. The SYD/MEL-LAX-SFO flights are operated by 3 class 343 seat 744, 744ER aircraft generally, sometimes the 3
84 Zkpilot : yes they are as I said: QF 25/26 flies via AKL to LAX, NZ flies from AKL-LAX 5/6, 1/2 fair comparison. (Also I wouldn't count Y+ as another class whe
85 ZK-NBT : Yes fair comment, i'd agree that NZ probably have 2.5 classes. My comment meant that QF fly 3 class Pacific configured 744's on SYD/MEL-LAX/SFO. I'm
86 NZ1 : What a load of nonsense. EK have some of the best maintenance facilities in the world, AND there work practices are second to none. I have personally
87 1Des1 : Don't shoot the messenger, that's just what I heard!
88 Zkpilot : but most of our fleet is old (average age of our 744's is 12.5 years, 763's 10.1 years) EK's average fleet age is less than 5 years and as you said t
89 AirNewZealand : Interesting post... In regards to EK catering... The menu is still the same from 6 months ago. Talking to the flight attendants on my last trip with t
90 Antskip : Interesting as yet another form of EK-bashing - this time claiming they are un-safe! "Entire" flights? how could you cancel less than an "entire" fli
91 TG992 : Some people would but lets be honest people pay as little as they need. If a Kiwi or Aussie pays $1 more than they need most would feel ripped off! I
92 Antskip : Your experience differs from mine. I find that QF, NZ and EK flight crew are all tops, and I think insulting one or the other by saying they are infe
93 NZFan : Makes me think of Aerokiwi for a second Just had a friend flying AKL-SYD-BKK and he's no NZ supporter but he was quite disappointed at the EK service
94 Post contains images NZ8800 : Oh - that was BAD! But very good and to the point... I haven't laughed so much in ages!
95 NZFan : I did think twice before posting, but then it is only just the reality.
96 Skyhigh : Just to add one more point... I find it ridiculous that NZ still penalises people for not retaining their boarding pass. Qantas now have a new system
97 Xiaotung : This is not true. You can now claim points online on NZ mentals. Even if that does not work, it will be only a phone call away.
98 NZ1 : Yes, weight was an issue, but so was the fact that they were a maintenance nightmare. Every hangar visit, we would be replacing or repairing nearly h
99 Antskip : Yet the B777's do have them in Business, don't they? There must have been some serious thought of why footrests are so often installed, the comfort f
100 NZ1 : The 777 has the pod seating just like the 744 in Business Premier, so not too sure what you are getting at. NZ1
101 Airnewzealand : AntSkip... I actually have to admire your last post regarding crew. I agree with your statement, and subtract my previous one. As a crew member i can
102 767ER : Yes some years when I sued to fly QF on an RTW in Y I always scored enough points for a free trip to WLG - fat chance these days. Getting an UG to LA
103 TG992 : If you are missing travel on NZ a quick phone call will do it. There is a major risk of double dipping on partner airlines, this is why we are very c
104 Post contains images Zkpilot : by flying part way to a final destination ie fly from DXB to Asia and not on to Australia or New Zealand.   What type of 777 are you refering to? NZ
105 Aerokiwi : Actually, I take all of this as a compliment. I do not appreciate being dicked over by anyone, least of all a failed, publicly-bailed out airline lik
106 NZFan : I think there are times and places for everything, times to know when to shut up, times to complain, places to complain to the right people. I don't
107 TG992 : So why even fly NZ if you dislike them so much? I mean who is making you fly them???
108 Post contains images NZ8800 : I get visuals when I read Aerokiwi's rants against Air New Zealand of a Fundamentalist Pastor bellowing from the pulpit that "Air New Zealand and Qan
109 Rongotai : The trouble with Aerokiwi is that it is almost impossible to make an objective judgement about the legitimacy of his complaints because they are alway
110 Aerokiwi : Sometimes you don't have a choice. My trips to IVC for example. And I had avoided them before for years before giving them another go internationally
111 Aerokiwi : A typical accusation levelled at people who do not swallow everything they are fed. Feel free to elaborate on my "absurd political hysteria". If dema
112 Post contains images SunriseValley : Very well said.... I have felt that his contributions are about what one would expect in a University debating team, wild, wayout with the sole inten
113 Aerokiwi : "Wild" and "wayout"? Hehe, I was tempted not to respond to that one, but, Sunrise Valley, they sounded so old-man like that I couldn't resist. Oh wai
114 TG992 : Oh come on that is RUBBISH, at this price you get points (or dollars) When I get to work i'll confirm the amount. Yip, QF have a joining fee, just lo
115 Aerokiwi : Not according to our corporate travel department or the website when we checked two weeks ago or the airline when we rang. I may be wrong about the $
116 Rongotai : What you do, Aerokiwi, is make complaints about NZ, and then imply that its alleged deficiencies are BECAUSE the government is its majority shareholde
117 Flyjetstar : Well said Rongotai. I concur with your final statement.
118 NZ8800 : Very well said Rongotai... agree with all of it.
119 NZFan : My turn to second you on that.
120 TG992 : I third that!
121 Aerokiwi : Nice to see all the usuals out in force congratulating one another. Sounds like you all need a hug. You're confusing that little diatribe of yours wit
122 Brutie : Seemingly like many of you, I have been reading Aerokiwi's posts with a mixture of annoyance and amusement, but the posts on this thread really take t
123 Brutie : Rongotai, superb post! I love all the posts along the lines of "I can't believe they've done this - I'm never flying them again!". So much righteous i
124 Aerokiwi : The differene being that I am concerned at long-term profitability, not short-term gain. The outright alienation of your customer base is hardly a so
125 TG992 : Come on mate, keep it clean. Such as? 1/ ANZES was to save money? 2/ Uniforms / Livery is a fresh look. How many companies do this when they want to
126 NZ1 : Welcome to my RU list Rongotai. Your post was one of the best I have read on this forum for a long long time. NZ1
127 VirginFlyer : Aircraft have to be repainted - it is on a fixed schedule, generally tied to maintenance checks. If you leave the aircraft too long between repaints,
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