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SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay  
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12936 times:

Quote:
Singapore Airlines is unhappy with the latest delay in the delivery of the superjumbo Airbus 380 and may seek compensation, a spokesman said Wednesday.

We are not happy about this but we are committed to working with Airbus to minimize the consequences of the delay," said a Singapore Airlines spokesman.

Only nine of the aircraft, which seat 555 people in a three-class configuration, will be delivered to customers in 2007 compared with the earlier Airbus projection of 20 to 25.

SQ will still receive its first A380 this year, although the delivery could be delayed by a few weeks, he said.

Singapore Airlines has ordered 10 of the superjumbos and taken an option to purchase a further 15.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...613-716369.html

I thought it was a given that they would seek compensation.

What are the chances those options will be exercised?

[Edited 2006-06-14 06:32:06]

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12887 times:

Hmmm...'not happy' looks like a very careful choice of phrasing.

I'd love to be a journalist able to phone Qantas and ask them for a comment from their viewpoint. I'd bet ten (Australian) bucks that the first (off-the-record) part would be, "Too XXXXXXX right we're not XXXXXXX happy!"



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12863 times:

Well, do you blame them?

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12810 times:

I'm sure the "Hatchet" men from Changi are already gleefully at work in their woodshed, carefully honing the camber of the cane(s) that will be taken into the next meeting with Humbert and Leahy. Big grin

User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12710 times:

And this is news to me:

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
SQ will still receive its first A380 this year, although the delivery could be delayed by a few weeks, he said.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12508 times:

So much for one in November and one in December.

GRR!



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6716 posts, RR: 77
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12418 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
What are the chances those options will be exercised?

That still depends on the actual performance figures, I guess.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12381 times:

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
SQ will still receive its first A380 this year, although the delivery could be delayed by a few weeks

Hopefully by a few it does not mean 5 weeks, which is 2007 to me..

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineAlaskaqantas From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12310 times:

I wonder why they are mad? sarcastic 
take a few A380's and dash over to see what the 747-8 has in store!
as long as they still get to fly one this year, as they have been advertising, or else that would be FALSE ADVERTISING... not a good thing Wink but I hope Airbus can get its A into G an get to work... can't wait for the 380 or the 747-8
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.



to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12310 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Hmmm...'not happy' looks like a very careful choice of phrasing.

I'd love to be a journalist able to phone Qantas and ask them for a comment from their viewpoint. I'd bet ten (Australian) bucks that the first (off-the-record) part would be, "Too XXXXXXX right we're not XXXXXXX happy!"

or of course "A380 where the bloody hell are ya?"  Wink



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12278 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 9):
or of course "A380 where the bloody hell are ya?"

Fantastic call!  Big grin


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12227 times:

Well wow Boom Boom, what else would you expect. Obviously they're unhappy.
But you know when I see these delays, be it Airbus, Boeing or whoever, I say "what the heck?". I understand from a business point of view that delivering your product ontime is important, in my profession, timely delivery is essential, but thankfully my products aren't exactly the type of product that could put people's lives in danger if rushed. Maybe naive on my part, but as a passenger, I only feel pride in Airbus for not surcombing to market pressuring and ensuring that their product is 100% ready for EIS, despite any "stupid" negative feedback this may cause. Would you prefer to see an aircraft manufacturer rushing their product to keep some businessmen happy, and then everyone regretting it later when something goes wrong as it was rushed?
Bad management many of you may say? Not a fan of Forgeard ex-Airbus CEO, but it must be recognised that during his time Airbus became number 1 manufacturer in the world, and the company today is still turning around massive profits. Overly optimistic marketing? Possible. Airbus marketing has always been aggressive, even tothe point that it often causes disagreement within engineering, design, operation departments in Airbus, but didn't Boeing only recently realise they'd need to implement some more aggressive marketing... and it's certainly working in their favour, and I'm delighted for them. We're already hearing about delays on the 787,a nd I'm quite sure more will follow, and I guarantee you anti-Airbus posters that you will never see me posting derogatory posts against Boeing when/if they delay the 787, as my above opinion will be the same for Boeing as for Airbus.
Oh I'm sure the likes of Boom Boom, NAV20 and co will just say I'm naïve, don't know what I'm talking about, what a load of rubbish I'm saying, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. I also guarantee you that I know a lot of inside information, as my profession does give me many opportunities to deal with Airbus and their customers, and "usually" I only hear praise from their customers.
Anyway, another delay, I admit "Damn" was my first thought, but as I've said, in the end of the day I much prefer thinking Airbus are delaying things to do them properly instead of rushing the job. There's to much at stake in manufacturing a/c.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12178 times:

Unhappy? I'm shocked

Anyway, it is not shocking to see delays in undertakings of this magnitude. Designing and building an airplane, especially one of this size is an unbelievable undertaking.

In the '90s Boeing took a big hit when they ran into production line issues while trying to boost production rate. The production lines had to be shut down, and obviously there were financial consequences.

I'm more interested now what it'll be like to provide services and support for a fleet of so few airplanes.



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12163 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
Oh I'm sure the likes of Boom Boom, NAV20 and co will just say I'm naïve, don't know what I'm talking about

Fair go, Toulouse - I've never posted in that vein, nor will I ever. But as to this, I suggest that you look at EADS' latest Press Release:-

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
the company today is still turning around massive profits.

The release says, among other things:-

"From 2007 to 2010, EADS anticipates annual shortfalls of EBIT* contribution from the A380 programme of about € 500 million relative to the original baseline plan. The shortfalls result from the shift of margin to later years, excess costs tied to the recovery action and the late delivery charges which are to be negotiated with customers. Possible contract terminations under the new timetable have not been taken into account in this estimate.

"EADS expects free cash flow shortfalls, relative to the original baseline plan, of less than € 300 million in 2006, increasing to more than € 1 billion in 2008, and decreasing sharply thereafter."


From memory, EADS' annual profit last year wasn't much more than E1.0B. after interest and tax.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11931 times:

I wonder if this is a bid to lower British Aerospace's share price during the sale process ?

Airbus isnt happy at the BAe demanded price.
some 500mn euro costs for 3 years will certainly do it to the shareprice.

However if after a reduced price sale those issues strangely resolved themselves.. the share price will rise again and there is no longer a problem.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
I wonder if this is a bid to lower British Aerospace's share price during the sale process ?

this certainly isn't helping....


fair use excerpt:

"Shares of European defense company and Airbus parent EADS fell 18% on Wednesday after the European plane manufacturer said its production program for the A380 superjumbo is being slowed down"

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...eid=38882%2E1451563889%2D877916650


hopefully the stock will recover.......but I think shareholders in EADS need to have the management of this company re-evaluated..

I certainly think Gustav Humbert will do a good job at Airbus though...

[Edited 2006-06-14 09:46:19]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11785 times:

LOL BoomBoom yet again the bringer of (no) news.

Talk about stating the blindingly obvious.

Look at the A346 and MD11 issues on EIS, obviously the latter's being much more serious - in the end both affected their respective OEM's reputation, and given what a strong Boeing competition has brought to market, it doesnt take an idiot to figure out that Airbus needs to get this one right, very right, first time. Not getting it right and putting a plane with big issues into service before it is really mature enough to do so is far more damaging than any delay to EIS could ever be. SQ, VS, EK, and QF are all big fish, and alienating them by giving them massive EIS issues will play right into the hands of the 748I.

Its vital that the A380 needs to be spot on, right right from the off. The delays are regrettable, but you can compensate airlines for delays, but its much more difficult to compensate them for giving them planes riddled with bugs and gremlins.

No, im not making the best of a bad situation, and yes Airbus's stock will suffer because of this, but its a necessary evil. Get this one wrong and the consequences will be disastrous. Get it right, and airlines that are sitting on the fence, like CX, BA, SA and the rest will have to sit up and take notice.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11668 times:

Because EIS of the A388 will be delayed and production slots for the existing orders will have to be pushed back some, a new order for the 748 or A388 may not have much difference in the time of delivery.

Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out SQ is not happy. Let the penalty payments from Airbus to SQ and other airlines flow.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11668 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 19):

I hope your reactions about the expected 7-Late-7 delay will be equal...

Have any proof of the "expected 7-late-7"?

I'd be happy if you can provide some links..

 Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11635 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 19):
I hope your reactions about the expected 7-Late-7 delay will be equal...

I though this is about A380, and Airbus's screw up. If you want you can start a thread about the alleged delay on 787.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11305 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Hmmm...'not happy' looks like a very careful choice of phrasing.

I'd love to be a journalist able to phone Qantas and ask them for a comment from their viewpoint. I'd bet ten (Australian) bucks that the first (off-the-record) part would be, "Too XXXXXXX right we're not XXXXXXX happy!"

If I'm not mistaken airline reactions are a lot more moderate then the folks here on a.net. They must be real dissapointed & are starting to make up there own "imagine" "I bet" customer reactions & commenting on those

desperate IMO

 Wink


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10386 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 33):
Yeah I'm an Airbus fan. Love their planes, prefer flying on them to Boeing a/c,

The above is a statement I just don't understand. I've been flying since 1971. I've flown Airbus, ATR's, Bombardier, Boeing, Douglas, Embraer, Grumman, Lockheed and MD aircraft. I've probably missed a few, in fact. What I've found over the past 35 years is that how an AIRLINE configures its aircraft and provides service is far more important to my comfort and satisfaction than who happened to build the damn airplane. As long as the tube I'm sitting in gets me to my destination in one piece, I could care less who builds it.

Case in point. Given the choice of flying in a UA A320 with EP seating or a US A320, I'll pick the UA A320 every time. And don't get me started on how miserably uncomfortable Lufthansa A320's are.

I know the majority of Anetters will keep the A v B fires burning brightly. It's probably the only reason some of them post, I suspect.


User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10115 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 26):
It is not coming from me.I only read it in several german newspapers and aicraft magazines.So do not call ME childish...

German newspapers, I wonder if they have any interest in a German-owned company trying to move the topic off of Airbus's current difficulties?

I'm both an Airbus and Boeing fan. Big A320 fan and Big 777 fan, though my name obviously refers to my childhood airplane, I'm pro Airbus and also enjoy the A340. I say this to identify myself as a moderate, in the middle type guy. Having said that it does appear that Airbus is having, at the minimum, public relations issues and of course some financial ramifications to these delays. I'm sure in the long run things will work out for the A380 program but with all the press Airbus brought to the aircraft beforehand it certainly doesn't look good, at the minimum, that it's having so many delays.

Couple that with the A350 do-over and it's no wonder the very Pro Boeing crowd here are taking advantage of the current times. I'm hoping and believe the A380 will end up successful and that Airbus will answer the 787 with something more competitive. Having said that, from a novice's perscpective, it doesn't appear they're doing a very good job at the moment.


User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9937 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
Well wow Boom Boom, what else would you expect. Obviously they're unhappy.
But you know when I see these delays, be it Airbus, Boeing or whoever, I say "what the heck?". I understand from a business point of view that delivering your product ontime is important, in my profession, timely delivery is essential, but thankfully my products aren't exactly the type of product that could put people's lives in danger if rushed. Maybe naive on my part, but as a passenger, I only feel pride in Airbus for not surcombing to market pressuring and ensuring that their product is 100% ready for EIS, despite any "stupid" negative feedback this may cause. Would you prefer to see an aircraft manufacturer rushing their product to keep some businessmen happy, and then everyone regretting it later when something goes wrong as it was rushed?

I couldn't agree with you more. I think security/mechanical/last minute/unpredicted issues ought to be taken care of immediately before the bird enters service, having any recalls after it starts carrying passengers would be a bad move on their part. Like Toulouse said, we're not talking about a bicycle here, we're talking about a 610,000+ lbs. mega-plane that carries the lives of numerous passengers. No error can be made in this instance.

The whole A vs. B debate has loooooooong be dragged out and overdone. It's like a bunch of petty catfights that never end. I consider myself a true liberalist vis a vis this topic, I recognize that both Boeing and Airbus have brought recognizable traits and advancements to this industry that brought us on this forum at the first place. But the constant bashing, the "Airbus delays Thread No. 1xxxx" is getting old. Give the manufacturer a break! When was the last time you built/tested a 600,000 lbs. double-decker? I bet Airbus fans are anxiously waiting the day when Airbus takes the lead again...it's like the cycle of life, but one thing that is 110% certain: Neither Airbus or Boeing will EVER be left standing alone.


User currently offlineElvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9450 times:

Howdy all,

I am a bit perplexed by the vociferous whining that is coming from certain A.net members concerning any bad news that affects eads. To be honest I am more than puzzled!

Boom boom posted a link to a news article. The news article was not so kind to eads. Then he asked a legitimate question and now you guys (you know who you are) are crying airbus bashing while at the same time proffessing that you love aviation. Stop it. This is news about an aircraft manufacturer. We do discuss those things here. So if you dont like to hear that your favorite aircraft manufacturer screwed up and his customers are unhappy (be it the first time posted or the 1001 time) dont read it! If you only care for 'nice' eads news then either post them yourselves or perhaps join (form) an "I love eads' website.

I , and probably others as well, are interested in any news that affects any aircraft manufacturer. I try to be as informed as possible and so try to read various newspapers and journals. But one I dont get is wsj. So if this is not posted I would not be able to read it. get it? I am amazed that this is such a difficult subject to understand.

Tell you what, why dont you post articles such as this and beat him (and others) to the punch. That way you can spin it any way you like.

Would that be alright and then pass your eads loving test?

Elvis777



Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
25 Toulouse : And when a product fails because it was rushed to keep some business executives happy, is that not the real world? And if that product just happens t
26 Halls120 : I understand perfectly people have different tastes. Let's look at automobiles, for example. Both Honda and Toyota make excellent automobiles, but th
27 Post contains images Piercey : and just think, you just paid $25 to join in the fun! Either way, this is a no sh!t topic. SQ and co. are ticked because this is a major delay and no
28 Post contains images AutoThrust : Thanks a lot Toulouse for your warm welcome i hope i will be able to reach the standard "sometimes" Airliners.net has and have some great discussion a
29 OldAeroGuy : Sorry, but the argument you're making does not hold water in the case being discussed. Airplane Safety is assured by meeting the EASA/FAA Certificati
30 Post contains links NAV20 : Cheers, Toulouse. As a matter of fact, it WAS Airbus' fault. The airport managers took the ridiculous 800-passenger hype at face value, and planned f
31 Lumberton : Read an article today about MAS reviewing their options. Could they be the first?
32 NLINK : I would love to see SQ cancel there 380 order.
33 VinnieWinnie : I totally agree with you that a few years ago the only thing you could hear on television about the aviation sector was how well Airbus was doing! Th
34 B777A340Fan : What I think you don't realize is that people aren't in to see Boeing go down the tubes and by no extent do people consider Airbus to be faultless. S
35 Jacobin777 : I agree VinnieWinnie, but I'm not to be the judge of that.....though I'm a solid Boeing fan, I still love Airbus planes (much to the disappointment o
36 Toulouse : That I am 110% with you on. And if you look at my posts you will see that all I'm doing is deploring this type of bashing. I supposed I should just r
37 Post contains images Legoguy : to an extent. I guess I consider myself an Airbus fan as I live in the UK however I love Boeing just as much! Both Boeing and Airbus are great aircra
38 PlaneHunter : Can you provide any links? Serious papers certainly haven't, serious journalists certainly haven't. So better forget the idea that Airbus buys the in
39 OldAeroGuy : No contradiction really. If the airplane is certified and its certification basis is established, then the inability to deliver it stems from not bei
40 Jacobin777 : mea culpa :..I "quoted" the wrong person..I meant the other poster (the one you happen to agree with)...
41 Manni : Considering their financial difficultys at the moment, this might indeed be the right moment to do so. However, is the delivery schedule to Malaysian
42 Post contains images AirMailer : Well at least you came right out and said it.
43 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Well, the A380 has successfully flown, not a single cancellation has been announced yet, the whole program is still well alive and Airbus hasn't gone
44 Toulouse : No it's not. Look, I see the 380 overflying my garden very low numerous times a day, and I don't rush and duck. I know it's safe. But still, it's a m
45 Toulouse : And that I full heartedly agree with!
46 787engineer : I agree with most people here that BoomBoom posts a lot if not too many negative Airbus threads, however the majority of them I would not consider ba
47 Legoguy : No offense ment here, but recently I have noticed that you seem to be starting most of the 'Airbus has problems' threads. I have no problem with this
48 BoomBoom : That's because they have problems so often... I don't make the news up--I just link to it.
49 Astuteman : If that's truly the case, then it should provide a good barometer of the current market acceptability of the A380 (for those airlines that have order
50 787engineer : I think most airlines that have orders will wait to see how the first ones do in service before cancelling. Some may be leaning towards cancelling, b
51 OldAeroGuy : I agree with the delay being quality related, but your initial post talked about putting "people's lives in danger". That's Safety.
52 BlueSky1976 : I would personally give more credit to John "The Mouth" Leahy for getting Airbus to where it is right now. Sorry, but I've never bought "1,100 A380s
53 Post contains images Halibut : Wrong -Stop ! I don't think so . Lets see how well they do when you take away the unforgivable loans , loans that may or may NOT have to be repaided
54 Aerobalance : Hire enough qualified people initially and the problem never starts - no rush because the personnel are there to handle it in the early stages...
55 Mirrodie : I think the original poster simply posted something he read and in turn, others jumped in and started a flamefest. It does not seem that the original
56 Keesje : They are producing one daily now.
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