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Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay  
User currently offlineCoa747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7706 times:

Following from an article in the Guardian about the latest delay to the A380 program. Seems Noël Forgeard is trying to place the blame squarely on Gustav Humbert for the latest A380 delay.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1797692,00.html

Noël Forgeard, co-chief executive of EADS and architect of the A380 project, to make an abject apology to investors and implicitly warn Gustav Humbert, the new head of Airbus, to get a grip or quit. He threatened to impose a more centralised command structure and in effect seize control of the plane-maker that until last year he headed himself.

"I have built my entire industrial career on building confidence for shareholders. When I was at Airbus we never missed a projection that we gave and this comes as a big blow," he told analysts on a conference call, casting doubt on the future of the German Mr Humbert.

Funny because I believe the A380 was Forgeard's pet project, so he created this mess in the first place. Also wasn't it under Forgeard's watch that Airbus stood by and did nothing when the 787 was announced. Wasn't he also at the healm when they brough the A350 to market which garned little if any interest. Wasn't he also in charge when the A340-500/600 program was launched which has since proved a dismal failure. He then exits leaving Airbus with A380 mess and no cohernt product strategy and a huge gap in its product family and some how this is Humbert's fault.

The only one who needs to get a grip is Forgeard. He is the one who is reponsible for the current tailspin Airbus is in, and he alone should be held responsible. They need to give him the boot and fast before he can do anymore damage.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7649 times:

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
When I was at Airbus we never missed a projection that we gave and this comes as a big blow,"

This guy is a full-fledged clown, and a liar.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

Now let's see how the board (and Humbert) respond. Maybe it's time for Forgeard to go.

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
They need to give him the boot

'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7583 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):

'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

NAV20, such a shame, as I think Humbert, if given the autonomy, could do a very good job at Airbus.......and certainly get out of this mess Forgeard and his buddies have created



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCoa747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7560 times:

Humbert is trying his best to get things back on track but it will take time. If Forgeard and his buddies push him out then it will be a huge setback to Airbus. Bottom line publicly bashing the head of Airbus not only hurts Airbus but EADS as well. A really bonehead move on Forgeard's part not to mention the fact that it doesn't instill much confidence in EADS or Airbus from a customer or shareholder perspective. Forgeard is doing a really good job of running Airbus into the ground and he doesn't even work there anymore. Who were the idiots who thought he would be a good choice to run EADS.

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Jacobin777, there's a lovely sly joke they tell in Ireland, about a tourist lost in the Wicklow Mountains (known for charming winding roads that turn out to lead nowhere in particular) who asks for directions back to the city. The guy starts off giving them directions; changes his mind and starts again; has one more try; and finally says:-

"You know, the truth of it is - if you want to get back to Dublin, you'd best not start from here...."

Can't help feeling that that exactly describes Airbus' situation at this time.  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7523 times:

If Humbert gets pushed out will he be under a no compete clause? If not things could get even more painful for Airbus. The only thing worse is if he were to get a senior position at a major airline.

User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):

'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

Mr. Chirac's time in office is severly limited right now, with the events of the last year being very unfriendly to his office. Mr. Foregeard is closely linked to Mr. Chirac and is (imho) not likely to stick around when the next government changes.

This really does look like a internal Airbus battle. You don't as CEO of a large company out a subordinate unless you are planning on firing said executive.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7486 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 6):
Jacobin777, there's a lovely sly joke they tell in Ireland, about a tourist lost in the Wicklow Mountains (known for charming winding roads that turn out to lead nowhere in particular) who asks for directions back to the city. The guy starts off giving them directions; changes his mind and starts again; has one more try; and finally says:-

"You know, the truth of it is - if you want to get back to Dublin, you'd best not start from here...."

Can't help feeling that that exactly describes Airbus' situation at this time.

lol...I get the feeling you are right, but you have been correctly stating this situation for a long time, even in the midst of intense flaming...if I had some room on my RSU list, I would be putting you 2nd in line (after another A.net member who should be on my RSU-list)...... Smile

cheers...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineGrantcv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7420 times:

Imagine if Forgeard had had the insight to launch an A370 in 1999/2000 to tackle the B773 & B773ER rather than going with the A345/A346 and A380? They could have EIS'ed last year, blunted the impact of the B773ER and B772LR and be working on a growth version to neutralize the B748 now. With the saving from those better decisions, they could have launched a true competitor to the B787 back in 2004 and would be well positioned to begin replacing the A320 before Boeing does the B737 replacement. The seeds of Airbuses current woes were planted quite a while ago by Forgeard.

User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7396 times:

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
"I have built my entire industrial career on building confidence for shareholders. When I was at Airbus we never missed a projection that we gave and this comes as a big blow,"

numerous statements like this that we have heard come out of management....

its plain that EADS management is in wild dissarray.

At any real company it would be shakeup time in a big way.

At Airbus, it appears to be business as usual...

Something needs to be done!

Dare we say that the 5-year old EADS "experiment" has been a failure?

iwok


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7381 times:

Telling that he talks about 'shareholders', not 'customers'.

I've always had the impression that, unlike their Boeing counterparts, the Airbus bosses just aren't 'aeroplane people'.That they're just businessmen who happen to be running an aircraft manufacturing company.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9978 posts, RR: 96
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7333 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

I (very sadly) think that this is a good call, NAV20. Just the sort of motivation Gustav needs right now.........


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7320 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
Telling that he talks about 'shareholders', not 'customers'.

Um - he was talking about the disaster that was EADS shares today.

You don't think the shareholders deserve an apology?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSaturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
the Airbus bosses just aren't 'aeroplane people'.That they're just businessmen who happen to be running an aircraft manufacturing company.

Well said. Or better yet - they are 'politicians'.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12394 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7302 times:
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Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
Um - he was talking about the disaster that was EADS shares today.

Come on Mariner, you don't expect a little thing like a fact to get in the way of a good Airbus/Forgeard bash do you? wink 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7278 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

That I do agree with you on. Forgeard is a friend of Chirac. And they're both fools. Presidential elections are coming soon, and Chirac will be gone. France is in major need of a huge change (ie. modernisation) to it's political and business world. The country needs fresh blood in the top spots, and that's certainly not Chirac, or Villepin or Sarkosy or the likes. French people seem to be sick and tired of the incompetence and old-world backward views of their political and many industrial leaders. I sincerely hope the next presidential elections will make this turning point and put France back in the high profile position it deserves, as no matter what somemay say here (especially Bush supporters), France is a great country and deserves better. And that "better" is slowly becoming a necessity.

Forgeard turn on Humbert... Just shows what a fool Forgeard is.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7278 times:
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Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 15):
Or better yet - they are 'politicians'.

Mr. Leahy is a politician? Gee, that's novel. I've heard him callled many things, but never a politcian.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 16):
Come on Mariner, you don't expect a little thing like a fact to get in the way of a good Airbus/Forgeard bash do you?

Not really. After NAV20's expressed hope yesterday that this is The End for Airbus, I'm ready for anything.

What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here, and Herr Humbert is given a constant free pass.

This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSaturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
I've heard him callled many things, but never a politcian

Gee, a clear oversight. Mr. Leahy is most politician of them all. Enaging in mud-slinging, facts-distortion, false advertising, self serving statements - list is long. Maybe politicans in your country don't do that - I better emigrate there. Big grin


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7183 times:
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Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 19):
Maybe politicans in your country don't do that - I better emigrate there. 

Ah, no - please. You wouldn't like it here. Air New Zealand flies A320's.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKatekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 702 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

So first it was BAE vs. EADS. Now it's Forgeard vs. Humbert. Also Leahy is visibly upsets and is starting to spit venom. This internal fighting won't do any good for Airbus and EADS, and more ugly stuff will come out.

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6813 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here, and Herr Humbert is given a constant free pass.

This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

I'm now of the view that they both should go.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6752 times:

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
Following from an article in the Guardian about the latest delay to the A380 program. Seems Noël Forgeard is trying to place the blame squarely on Gustav Humbert for the latest A380 delay.

Following from an article in German Magazine der SPIEGEL the same plot is put forward now by Lagardere, who's a major shareholder in and co-chairman of EADS.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,421596,00.html

Sickening to see that Forgeard and his clique have nothing else in mind than strengthening their grip on Airbus.

Likewise sickening to know that Forgeard sold of his and his families' shares in EADS just before all this turmoil was published, and that both Lagardere and DaimlerChrysler managed to sell a 7.5 % stake each to French and German state-owned banks before the stock price took a nosedive. Yet another scheme of taxpayer rip-off.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):

What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here

he's despised for a reason...

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

I think he's an intelligent man, and given autonomy, he would make Airbus a formidable competitor to Boeing....

of course, we've had this debate in another thread, so maybe we should leave it at that.... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
25 NAV20 : Not a hope, Mariner, an 'educated guess.' The BAE put option, plus the share slide, is likely to lead EADS/Airbus into an insoluble cash flow problem
26 Okelleynyc : This is all so maddening.... Where is the mea maxima culpa from Forgeard? Where is the detailed identification of the technical challenges or manufact
27 Katekebo : 100% agree. EU will not allow EADS and Airbus to die. EADS is important for strategic reasons, while Airbus is essential for political and pride reas
28 Post contains images NAV20 : I know what you mean, Katekebo - but I for one hope that 'Airbus 2007', if it eventuates, isn't run that way. That sort of thinking is the factor tha
29 USAF336TFS : I agree with most of your comments although... 1) Boeing is forecasted to have 60%+ market share by the time the 787 starts shipping in numbers. What
30 Post contains images Frequentflyer : Agree. Chirac is really worn out, after a dismal 11 years in office. Borders on incompetency. Very well phrased! Right. But I think old-world in this
31 Katekebo : I think there is still substantial idle capacity "dormant" in Russia, that can be revived with Japanese money and manufacturing know-how.
32 Post contains links AerospaceFan : I think that the introduction of the latest Ilyushins^1 would be interesting, to say the least! But sadly, there are other factors at play, and whate
33 Coa747 : That is just what Airbus needs is for Forgeard to take defacto control of Airbus from EADS. A power struggle is just what Airbus and EADS needs at thi
34 Post contains images CptGermany : Welcome to my RU list. Not just for this comment, but in general your posts seem to have good information in them. They are interesting to read. It i
35 Post contains images CXB744 : "It's not my Fault!" Get a backbone Forgeard please!
36 Ikramerica : Certain people slam me for saying it, but it's due to political issues and multinational egos. You blame a certain sub assembly or process, you are b
37 Katekebo : Out of topic, so my post will probably get deleated, but just to lighten things a little bit..... When the battle of Waterloo was about to start, Wel
38 Post contains images Halibut : Here we go again Mariner ! Do you really beleive that or are you just excersizing your verbage ? And I ask you again Mr Mariner , Has Airbus produced
39 Post contains images Halibut : Correct Jacobin777 , we have had this debate before . " BUT " Mariner never answered my question ! Halibut
40 Abrelosojos : = Exactly what I was thinking. If Gustav Humbert is given some space, I am sure he will be able to break Airbus's rut. Noel F and (the French conting
41 Post contains images Glideslope : No surprise here. This is EXACTLY what people have been fearing. You CAN'T HAVE 2 CEO"S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fix it now, or say Goodbye.  [Edited 20
42 Post contains images Glideslope : Man, your good.
43 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Maybe Mariner assumed the discussion was going to be finished off on the other thread.. cheers..
44 Blast : Business men with too close links to French national politics they are IMHO. I completely agree that Humbert would be a better choice to run the show
45 Kangar : I have to say that Forgeard's behaviour lately is just pathetic. If the board has even a shred of vision, they'll get this idiot out of sight asap. At
46 Post contains links Blast : In another thread, BAE Launches Attack On Eads (by BoeingBus Jun 15 2006 in Civil Aviation), I stumbled upon this link http://www.iht.com/articles/200
47 AerospaceFan : I think that for historical as well as political reasons, French influence in Airbus has been predominant. Even decades ago, Aerospatiale, a French co
48 Frequentflyer : The silver lining: hopefully Forgeard will be sent home and it'll be a new era for AB with Humbert applying professional Management.
49 USAF336TFS : If reports this morning (06/16/06) are true that Airbus management were aware of the manufacturing problems and the additional delays back in April of
50 AerospaceFan : I've always respected the appearance of high directorial integrity by the boards of directors of major German companies. (This is not to say that maj
51 DAYflyer : Notice how Forgeard says he built his career by making sahreholders happy. I find it interesting how Humbert sold his, and now we have the mess at Air
52 AerospaceFan : That's an intriguing theory. Time will tell if the facts bear it out, but if your supposition is correct, it wouldn't be the first time that Machiave
53 USAF336TFS : True and some evidence for those who believe, as I do, that corporate entities that are created by governments are structurally weak, until they aban
54 AerospaceFan : Another very interesting statement. I would point to another example that's been in the news -- PEMEX, the gigantic oil conglomerate that owes its ex
55 NA : The Airbus/EADS management is full of flaws, and allways has been. But that this Foregeard puts the blame on Humbert (who isn´t ruling Airbus for ver
56 AerospaceFan : I agree that Forgeard seems to be a bit defensive. I have always taken the position that, in this latest tempest, my sympathies may lie with Airbus,
57 LTBEWR : Sounds like Mr. Forgeard has to cover his ass on this one. He has a serious problem here, and one has to wonder if it is more than wiring production i
58 DL021 : You assume he has one. Foergard sold his shares, which is why he's having to answer some questions today. Which is part of their problem. Treating th
59 Frequentflyer : Very nice wording. I totally agree. Corporations with a tight leash -implicit or explicit, historic or present- to Government cannot be but nonassert
60 Post contains links Halibut : Both you "USAF336TFS" & NAV20 have been stating how political "governmnet" intervention in corps. can be a disaster waiting to happen . And judging f
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