AlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2857 times:
EmirItes taking over BA? I would find it hard to believe, and quite frankly, a bit worrying... Now if EmirAtes was holding talks to take over BA that would be a different story...
Seriously though, I cannot see that happening, now that Virgin is 49% foreign owned, surely we cannot let the gem of our British skies go to the hands of the Middle-East carrier. I think BA would fight that take over till the end (and with our debt at just £1.2B now, it's not like we fear a take over as was the case post 9/11 with £7B debt and £2m losses daily!).
Concorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2632 times:
Quoting Vc10 (Reply 5): I think you will find that only a limited amount of BA can be owned by foreign nationals and/or companies
I know there is no British law barring a foreign company taking over BA, so how does this work?
Does BA have Rolls Royce styled protections included in the company's articles of association which restricts BA becoming foreign owned. I know RR does not allow individual foreign shareholders to own more than 15%.
Incidentally, has anyone noticed so many British firms being snapped up these past two years:
2005 - Abbey bought by Spain's Santander
2005 - O2 bought by Spain's Telefonica
2006 - P&O bought by Dubai Ports World
2006 - BAA bought by Spain's Ferrovial
2006 - (yesterday) Goldman Sachs bid for Associated British Ports
I know!! And the hell of it is, many European countries would throw a fit if a British company bid for one of their blue chip companies!!!! I think it is sad to see the jewels in Britain's industry sold off to make money for foreign conglomerates. But thats the nature of international business I guess.
But I doubt the British government, BA shareholders or British public would like to see BA sold to EK....
Nzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2469 times:
Yes but the only problem is the rights to fly to another country are held by the government and usually only a national carrier majority owned by that country is allowed to fly some routes depending on the individual bilateral rights given by the other countries government.. So if EK took over BA it would in theory become a UAE company based on ownership so BA could be forced to give up the rights to fly to some countries..
MaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2313 times:
Quoting Zen100 (Reply 12): The British are so focused on consumerism, they let all their companies be bought. They are so far into this consumer binges, i doubt they realise what is actually happening.
So you suggest they should be focusing on pride or nationalism, as opposed to focusing on consumers?
Reality is that the world is turning more and more into a global economy, in which you need economies of scale and a focus on consumers to survive and thrive.
If you let pride get in to your way by using protectionism for example, you damage your economy on the long-term.
Zen100 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2252 times:
Quoting MaartenV (Reply 13): Reality is that the world is turning more and more into a global economy, in which you need economies of scale and a focus on consumers to survive and thrive.
Sure. By now, we have largely all taken in the Globalistation show. Qatar, where I'm from, is pretty now the standup model for it anywhere in the world right now.
I think where our British friends, are in now, is something else. It's open door globalisations. The danger for the British, is where it just becomes a one-way door. If you don't own anything, but just consume all the time, you put yourself into a position where the terms of the trade are being decided outside of your control.
A case in point is the energy sector in the UK, a British postes 'BCAL' already made a note that the sector in the south of the UK is much in the hands of the French. Now god forbid, supplies become squeezed, who will the French cut of first? How you control the situation, what power do you have?
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2020 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1902 times:
Indeed, we in the UK are practicing what we preach with Open Trade in allowing our major companies to be taken over. I find this worrying though when so many countries, i.e. the US, France, Spain, are so restrictive themselves. A number of financial editors in the UK press are questioning this too - i.e. major shareholders are letting short term gain influence their decision to sell. Certainly in the case of BAA, controlling LHR, LGW and STN you'd have to question the wisdom of allowing a Spanish construction firm to pile more debt into the company when so much investment is required in our airports. Of our major airports only MAN is UK owned! A bid for BA might actually be the straw that broke the camel's back as regards major takeovers of UK firms. If this keeps on what will we be left with? BP, Vodafone and Royal Bank of Scotland are major UK firms that have built up massive overseas ops, but why aren't more of our companies looking at this? BAA just gave in so easily when it said it was better off independent.
Oh, and a BA with reduced debt, possibly solutions to Pension deficit, etc, becomes a more attractive takeover target. Hopefully next year as planning for T5 really starts taking off Willie Walsh and Martin Broughton will start looking at strengthening BA. A merger with IB, and even AY too, would produce a major European rival to AF/KL and LH/LX.
MaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 1743 times:
Quoting Zen100 (Reply 14): A case in point is the energy sector in the UK, a British postes 'BCAL' already made a note that the sector in the south of the UK is much in the hands of the French. Now god forbid, supplies become squeezed, who will the French cut of first? How you control the situation, what power do you have?
Good point, but seeing that France and Great Britain are in a reasonable stable relationship right now, we can say that something like this is a doomsday scenario with a low probability.
But I agree with you that some sectors need some protectionism, but I don't think the airline industry should be protected for foreign influences, as long as they comply with laws and regulations of the country.
I think you are missing the larger issue. It is Qatar that is in the "difficult" spot. It is a country with limited natural resources, save one extremely valuable resource that is at a peak(?) right now. It must diversify its resource/capital production base to be stable in the global economy. Qatar is doing the right thing by reaching out and investing other streams of capital.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
I disagree. Qatar is a small nation of 845,000 people with proven oil reserves of 15bn barrels, and with the 3rd largest natural gas reserves in the world. And the single biggest field. That is not what I call limited resources.
Quoting Tugger (Reply 17): . It must diversify its resource/capital production base
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 18 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1666 times:
Quoting MaartenV (Reply 16): France and Great Britain are in a reasonable stable relationship right now
Stable now, but who knows what will happen in the longer term? Besides, the French are renown for their quick tempers. It would probably only take something trivial, like the banning of imports of French lamb into the UK, and Monsieur Jacques will soon use the threat of turning off energy supplies as the ace up his sleeve.
Besides the French are rather dependant on Russia for supplies of gas. If Boris decides to reduce exports, and the French have insufficient gas, their home supplies will no doubt take precedence.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 59 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 19): Besides the French are rather dependant on Russia for supplies of gas. If Boris decides to reduce exports, and the French have insufficient gas, their home supplies will no doubt take precedence.
And no mention of the fact that now we are supposed to all be "European". Which, in theory anyway, should make inter-country take-overs secure.
But, with Emirates being outside the EU, that would put a different slant on the whole business.
Tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5013 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1490 times:
Quoting Zen100 (Reply 18): with proven oil reserves of 15bn barrels, and with the 3rd largest natural gas reserves in the world. And the single biggest field. That is not what I call limited resources.
Yes, I was mistakenly thinking of the Oil not the NG as well, so Qatar has two plentiful natural resources. But it is limited to that (and fishing which is tiny by comparison) and that is what I meant by "limited". It is dependant on just two resources that reside within, and are highly subject to, any fluctuations in the Energy sector.
Oil and gas account for more than 60% of GDP, roughly 85% of export earnings, and 70% of government revenues. Oil and gas have given Qatar a per capita GDP about 80% of that of the leading West European industrial countries. Proved oil reserves of 16 billion barrels should ensure continued output at current levels for 23 years. Qatar's proved reserves of natural gas exceed 25 trillion cubic meters, more than 5% of the world total and third largest in the world. Qatar has permitted substantial foreign investment in the development of its gas fields during the last decade and is expected to become the world's top liquefied natural gas (LNG) exporter by 2007. In recent years, Qatar has consistently posted trade surpluses largely because of high oil prices and increased natural gas exports, becoming one of the world's fastest growing and highest per-capita income countries.
Agriculture - products:
- fruits, vegetables; poultry, dairy products, beef; fish
- crude oil production and refining, ammonia, fertilizers, petrochemicals,
- steel reinforcing bars, cement, commercial ship repair
Quoting Zen100 (Reply 18):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 17):
. It must diversify its resource/capital production base
Happening as we write.
And that IS what I meant. Qatar is being smart with its money and diversifying so as not to be dependant one (highly volitile) sector for its income stream.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner