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B6 Reaches Preliminary Agreement To Sell 5 A320s  
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7687 times:

"JetBlue in deal to sell A320 aircraft"

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-b...36154.story?coll=ny-business-print

Neeleman says that because of strong interest from potential buyers, the original plan of selling 2 to 5 A320s will now definitly be 5.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVivaGunners From Italy, joined Oct 2000, 364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 7540 times:

Any guesses on who will pick them up?
It must be someone interested in directv equipped seats, unless they are going to scrap them...
It will be interesting to see what happens.



Any ideas for a signature?
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 7511 times:

Quoting VivaGunners (Reply 1):
It must be someone interested in directv equipped seats

Will they keep those seats?

Quoting VivaGunners (Reply 1):
unless they are going to scrap them

If they are frames with a lot of cycles, this could be a possibility, although the oldest B6 are from 1999 right? Which would be a bit young for scrapping.

I would bet my money on a Latin American airline or a European (second tier, charter or low cost) airline.



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4295 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Quoting VivaGunners (Reply 1):
It must be someone interested in directv equipped seats, unless they are going to scrap them...

Scrapping a 5-6 year old aircraft? Unlikely in any case and definitely not true here.
As for the tv-equipped seats, wouldn't JetBlue pull them out first and sell a clean aircraft? Nobody buys a plane because they like the seats.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 2):
I would bet my money on a Latin American airline or a European (second tier, charter or low cost) airline.

Same here. I couldn't see any airline based in the U.S wanting to give B6 some extra cash.

How much are they selling them for?

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7233 times:

Too bad F9 runs the other motors...this would have been perfect for them. Same with Virgin America. I would agree that these may be going offshore and are probably older frames. I would suspect the Sat equip will be removed as well as the seats, refurbed, and used on the next 5 frames JetBlue does take.

User currently offlineDaus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7233 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 4):
Same here. I couldn't see any airline based in the U.S wanting to give B6 some extra cash.

There was a huge running discussion around YX wanting in on larger aircraft ASAP. YX and B6 don't compete much.


User currently offlineVivaGunners From Italy, joined Oct 2000, 364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7161 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 2):
If they are frames with a lot of cycles, this could be a possibility, although the oldest B6 are from 1999 right?



Quoting Richierich (Reply 3):
Scrapping a 5-6 year old aircraft? Unlikely in any case and definitely not true here.

Sorry guys, my bad... of course i was referring to the direct-tv equipped seats, not to the planes, as something they could scrap or eliminate. The article says B6 expect to sell the planes for $20 millions each, so they are not scrapping them I guess...



Any ideas for a signature?
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7130 times:

Quoting Daus (Reply 6):
There was a huge running discussion around YX wanting in on larger aircraft ASAP. YX and B6 don't compete much.

It wouldn't matter a rat's ass if they did. The highest bidder wins, period.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5786 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 8):
It wouldn't matter a rat's ass if they did. The highest bidder wins, period.

It isn't a bidding war. There is no auction. While it would be irresponsible to not take the highest "offer", they certainly don't have a gun to their heads - if Virgin America said "Hey, we'll give you whatever the competition is offering, plus $1mil.", B6 has every right to say "Kiss mine."

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7027 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
It isn't a bidding war. There is no auction. While it would be irresponsible to not take the highest "offer", they certainly don't have a gun to their heads - if Virgin America said "Hey, we'll give you whatever the competition is offering, plus $1mil.", B6 has every right to say "Kiss mine."

No, you're right, there is no formal 'auction'. But the aircraft are out on the market and the "Offers" are obviously coming in and it IS somewhat of a bidding war because the aircraft are in demand and when the offers stop coming in the sale will be made to the highest offer. The "Offers" are the gauge for the market and the value of the aircraft. Whether they compete with Jetblue or not is irrelevant. This is a publicly traded company not a playground exercise. As a stockholder in Jetblue I would expect the company to take a million more from "Virgin America" than a non-competing entity or have a hell of a good reason WHY. Like I said, it's not a playground exercise Dave, it's business.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5786 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 10):
Like I said, it's not a playground exercise Dave, it's business.

True, but the decision is not one dimensional either. The bottom line isn't just the price they get for the plane - it's the revenue they lose if it starts landing at JFK in VA colors shuttling back and forth to B6 hotspots.

I'm not sure if we really have a disagreement, but I do believe there is more to it than "Sold! To the highest bidder!". Like you said, it's business. They are just as accountable to shareholders if they make a bad "decision" as if they make a bad "sale".

Using your "it's business" quote, I'd say they are being paid to run a "business", not just manage a checking account. If there are implications to a sale that make a higher bid a bad decision, I would expect them (as a shareholder) to make the best decision in the big picture view.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

From what i've heard the planes aren't staying in the US. They should be going to an European carrier. I also belive they are working with the carrier to see if they want to become Direct TV customers so the TVs may stay in the seats.


JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6866 times:

I agree with Dave. I honestly think that the sale of these planes will be determined by both the price as well as the buyer.

If Song had come up to JetBlue and asked them to install LiveTV on their planes, would JetBlue have done it? Absolutely not. It's the same thing as VA coming up to JetBlue and asking to buy their A320s. That's one reason B6 bought 100 E190s (with options for an additional 100) all at one time: to fill up capacity and therefore lock out the competition.

If you own a Marriott and also own a 100-acre property next door, are you going to sell it to a Sheraton or to a Motel 6?

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
True, but the decision is not one dimensional either. The bottom line isn't just the price they get for the plane - it's the revenue they lose if it starts landing at JFK in VA colors shuttling back and forth to B6 hotspots.

To some degree, I would agree with you if there was a start-up airline based at JFK offering to buy the planes. There is no such start-up in the works. Unless the airplane is scrapped it has the potential and probability to compete on some level with B6 if sold to an American carrier. I guarantee you this isn't a thought worrying Jetblue, five aircraft flying with a competitor would have a negligible impact on the bottom line. There's thousands of examples out there, a good one being several WN 733s leased from American several years ago, WN and AA "compete", especially now. The bottom-line equates to financial gain, or those too would have been scrapped. Point being, whoever wants these aircraft obviously need airplanes and if they don't get them from Jetblue they'll get them from another source and if they wind up competing against Jetblue, oh well, it'll happen one way or the other. It's just not something good management cares about. JetBlue is a formidable competitor and far from being vulnerable. They're taking steps now to adjust to the market forces and remain strong and resilient. Selling these five aircraft to a competitor won't put Jetblue into a competitive disadvantage no matter how you look at it.


User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3180 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6645 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe Vueling would take them since Neeleman is involved with them... how have they been doing?

JBLU


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6550 times:

What about Virgin America?????


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 16):
What about Virgin America?????

Virgin America has new planes, though no certificate to operate them.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

I wonder if they are going to Air China?

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/2006-06-14-airchina-airbus_x.htm



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 549 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6454 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
If Song had come up to JetBlue and asked them to install LiveTV on their planes, would JetBlue have done it? Absolutely not. It's the same thing as VA coming up to JetBlue and asking to buy their A320s. That's one reason B6 bought 100 E190s (with options for an additional 100) all at one time: to fill up capacity and therefore lock out the competition.

If you own a Marriott and also own a 100-acre property next door, are you going to sell it to a Sheraton or to a Motel 6?

I respecfully disagree with your logic. Jetblue could have provided LiveTV to Delta, knowing that Delta would pay them for it. Once in a contract they could set whatever prices, and if they so desired, price them out of the market. If JetBlue was confident in their product and knew that it was absolutely superior to Delta, I would imagine that they would have done that. However, that clearly is not the case.. the service between both is comparable. As I'm sure you know, JetBlue offers the same service to Frontier, most likely on the basis of little overlap.

Your hotel argument is also flawed. The opportunity cost of holding onto the undeveloped land must be considered. In the case of the Marriot vs Sheraton they are comparable, and the land would command a high price premium to sell. The added revenue would allow for a lower cost basis between both assuming all other factors were the same. Marriot vs Motel 6 serve different clientales and could co-exist (middle to high end vs budget traveller). Marriots' often offer restaurants, superior fitness facilities, and conference centers.

Lastly, an additional hotel would not enter a market without sufficient demand. Multiple hotels can often stimulate demand, however, there likely are other attractions, businesses, and restaurants supporting the growth. Corporote contracts are often enough to sustain hotels too.

//edit for spelling

[Edited 2006-06-15 20:29:43]

User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 14):
To some degree, I would agree with you if there was a start-up airline based at JFK offering to buy the planes. There is no such start-up in the works. Unless the airplane is scrapped it has the potential and probability to compete on some level with B6 if sold to an American carrier. I guarantee you this isn't a thought worrying Jetblue, five aircraft flying with a competitor would have a negligible impact on the bottom line. There's thousands of examples out there, a good one being several WN 733s leased from American several years ago, WN and AA "compete", especially now.

Gee, I wonder if DL was thinking the same way when they decided to sell
some of their well used DC9-30's to a start-up carrier back in the early 90's
called Valujet?



72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Prabably going to Vueling since jetBlue owns a good percentage in them.

B6jfk airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

*cough* midwest *cough*



 Big grin  Wink  Smile  Silly  Cool  airplane   biggrin 


User currently offlineBH From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 525 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
If Song had come up to JetBlue and asked them to install LiveTV on their planes, would JetBlue have done it? Absolutely not.

Why not. LiveTV installs the XM on FL's a/c. LiveTV is a bussiness and need customers to make money just like airlines need passengers.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

some top managers of Jetblue, leader in the American airline industry in innovation and quality.

Per the Vueling web site.



You can cut the irony with a knife
25 Flashmeister : I'd think that B6 would absolutely love to sell LiveTV (the name of their product, not DirecTV) to DL. Major coup for them... B6 management knows that
26 Litz : While the video distribution system in the planes could be reused, Direct-TV is not only a US only satellite provider (the signal footprint only cove
27 Floridaflyboy : Actually, they probably would have. B6 owns the company that provides DirecTV on airliners and somehow F9's aircraft keep coming online with DirecTV.
28 787KQ : Is that confirmed, though it is likely? Their website only notes that V.A. Investors ,led by Dave Barger, president of JetBlue Airways, owns 7%.
29 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : Wrong. The only reason B6 bought LiveTV was so Song could not use it and they didn't know about any other companies that provided live tv to aircraft
30 N1120A : Given the amount of money YX owes Boeing, I have my doubts about them taking Airbus aircraft If this is true, then you are talking pure shortsighted
31 JetBluefan1 : The contract with F9 was signed before B6 bought up LiveTV, actually. In any case, my point is that B6 can choose who sell its products to. Basically
32 TVNWZ : They will sell to whomever pays them the most. Period.
33 Iluv2pilot : Why sell capacity? Are they reducing it or using other aircraft. I can't see how this benefits them other than giving them cash and freeing up mainten
34 Post contains links Flashmeister : jetBlue purchased LiveTV in September 2002. (See press release) They paid $41 million for the company. If the move was only to prevent Delta from usi
35 Post contains links MrComet : There are 76 Airbus A320s for sale or lease that are listed on www.globalplanesearch.com including some built last years. That means there is probably
36 Flyabunch : One of the continuing discussions about B6's early success was there use of new planes that did not need much maintenance. With planes that are now 6
37 Iluv2pilot : I don't get it either.
38 Dutchjet : As you probably know, JetBlue has a lot of aircraft on firm order, both A320s and E jets.......as you also probably know, JetBlue has run into a bit
39 B6JFKH81 : This is very true. While we are selling off a few A320's and slowing deliveries on them as well, the A320 fleet is still slated to grow, just not as
40 Akjetblue : Correct, we just received N638JB and N231JB a few days ago. We will deffer a few A/C starting next year through 2009, only A320s 190s will continue o
41 Iluv2pilot : So the idea is the New planes are cheaper to support? They get cash for the old and have warranty on the new?
42 Dutchjet : As pointed out, its PART of the equation.......the bottom line is that JetBlue has too much capacity coming into its system: it has decided to cutbac
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