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SIA To Change Their B789 For A370?  
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9853 times:

Just speculation,but SIA has a long history in ordering and canceling airplanes.Sometimes before delivery...

MD11s were ordered, but replaced with an A343-order, which was changed into a B777 order...

No they are ordering B787, which will probably be canceled and Airbus gets a new order from them..?

I think that is a unique history in aviation - some may call them unreliable as a customer.So maybe SIA will surprise us all in two or three years time?

PLS: No A vs. B !!! That is absolutely NOT the reason for my post.

Thanks, Johnny  Smile

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2213 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9799 times:

I wouldn't normally comment but this topic is plumbing the depths...

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

Yes, but they've never done that to Boeing.

And in any case, with the way SQ feels towards Airbus right now, Airbus should count itself lucky that the A380 order is still alive!


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2815 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9702 times:

In each case, the aircraft that superceded the previous was clearly superior in its market segment. That remains to be seen for the A370.

User currently offlineKatekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 702 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9614 times:

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
No they are ordering B787, which will probably be canceled and Airbus gets a new order from them..?

Wishful thinking (or Humbert's wet dream, whatever you want to call it).

I don't think Singapore will swap their orders for an airplane that does not exist and most likely won't exist for the next 8-10 years.

Also, do you think any airline will risk to be the launch customer for a new Airbus airplane after the A380 delays? I don't doubt that Airbus will continue finding customers for their existing, proven products, but after the A380 experience, Airbus will have hard time finding buyers for anything that is so far in the future.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9571 times:

SQ certainly has a history of quickly ridding its fleet of duds. If the 787 indeed turns out to be the "Nightmareliner" instead of the "Dreamliner," SQ is likely to take swift action to remedy the situation.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9418 times:

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
So maybe SIA will surprise us all in two or three years time?

So because they've done it in the past, they might "surprise us all" again? Sure. Emirates might "surprise us all" and switch the A380 to the 748. Ryanair might "surprise us all" and switch the 738 to the 320. SQ might switch the 380 to the 748.

We can go on and on and on. I'm not sure what anyone is supposed to add other than idle speculation. The 787 isn't even built yet, let alone flying.

Are you sure this isn't "wishful thinking"?  duck 

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9418 times:

I dont think its going to happen, and in any case I dont think Airbus deserves the order!

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30572 posts, RR: 84
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9336 times:
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Considering SQ's history of switching to a Boeing product, I'd be more worried about the A380's being converted to 748's then the 787 being converted to "A370s".

That SQ has decided to purchase the 787-9 implies they want a plane smaller then the 772ER, which is where the "A370" will presumably start. Now, SQ might decide to not exercise their 20 options for 787-10s if the "A370" looks to be epic, but I don't think Airbus will be able to provide that information before Farnsborough, which is when I believe Boeing will formally launch the 787-10 and SQ will exercise their 20 options for 20 frames of that model.

All that being said, by the time the largest members of the "A370" enters service in the late 2010's, if SQ needs additional capacity, they may decide to choose it, but by then Boeing will be shopping Y3 and depending on how much SQ likes the 773ER (and 772LR, should they choose it), they may decide to wait. Afterall, they seem to really like the 772ER...


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

Unlikely IMO, the 787 & A370 probably won't be in the same segment anyway.
An emerging reality still 90% of the public / press hasn't picked up.

Anyway SQ just started shopping IMO.

Short term asian lift capasity could play an important role in a 777 replacement RFP, the 787 won't be available in time. The A330 could still become a vital Airbus weapon for the 2007-2015 period.

[Edited 2006-06-15 17:46:25]

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9225 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
The A330 could still become a vital Airbus weapon for the 2007-2015 period.

In the end it may be the only viable weapon in the arsenal. See: Comments on this article about A350 Design (by AeroPiggot Jun 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineF14ATomcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8208 times:

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
Just speculation,but SIA has a long history in ordering and canceling airplanes.Sometimes before delivery...

Do you know of any other switches, One instance doesn't make a looooooonnnnnnnggggggg historyyyyyyyyyyyyy.


User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

You should change the title of this thread "Will SIA change B789 to A370 in the future?"

User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

@F14ATomcat

Two switches for the same requirement are enough, aren�t they?

 Wink


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
SIA has a long history in ordering and canceling airplanes.



Quoting Johnny (Reply 13):
Two switches for the same requirement are enough, aren�t they?

Two does not a long history make. (Apologies to W. Shakespeare.)


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Short term asian lift capasity could play an important role in a 777 replacement RFP, the 787 won't be available in time. The A330 could still become a vital Airbus weapon for the 2007-2015 period.

Keesje,

Seriously, when will this idea die??

Let's think about this for a second...

SQ is using 777s on their intra-Asian routes, and apperantly they're happy with them, otherwise with SQ's history of switching planes, they'd have swapped the non-ER 777s with A330s for the route you mentioned a long time ago.

Let's move time 5-7 years down the road... SQ would have received their 787-9s, (And maybe some -3s or -8s or -10s with their 20 options, you never know...) which is a bit smaller than 777s and lighter, yet it should have enough capacity to satisfy it's intra-Asian network...
If Airbus comes to SQ and say "Why don't you replace your aging 777s for your Intra-Asian network with our A330s which is old technology, and heavier than your new shiney 787s which can do the job and fly to Europe and North America, so you can add an additional fleet type, train your MX guys to maintain it, buy spare parts just for the A330s that only has one purpose of flying to HKG, TPE, JKT, DPS, MNL etc etc..."

Do you think SQ would even pick up future phone calls from Airbus if they REALLY make this kind of proposal???

Don't get me wrong, I think A330 is one of the greatest aircrafts ever produced, with A332 and A333 covering a wide market spectrum and mission segments... but what you're envisioning is just... well, streching it to say the least.

[Edited 2006-06-16 15:44:09]

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4001 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 4):
Also, do you think any airline will risk to be the launch customer for a new Airbus airplane after the A380 delays?

Given the growing anti-American feeling in some circles, launch customers for the A370 will not be a problem. Just scan the A350 order list. TAM would likely sign up, it is one of the most anti-Boeing companies I've seen.

[Edited 2006-06-16 15:46:31]

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7622 times:
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This thread, starting with the title, is designed to create doubt. Airbus has not even given the new new project a name beyond the current one, and Singapore has just ordered the 787.
Seriously, if you're desperate to believe something in order to preserve your notion of Airbus superiority and of the primacy of the coming A350 then try something positive about the new plans management has for the project (assuming management doesn't get arrested for insider trading, or sacked by the shareholders for incompetency in their planning, process management and public relations...not to mention their failure to keep the shareholders apprised of the facts in a timely manner).

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
PLS: No A vs. B !!! That is absolutely NOT the reason for my post.

right!  thumbsup   sarcastic 

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
The A330 could still become a vital Airbus weapon for the 2007-2015 period.

Yes...and the F-104 could make a comeback for the RNLAF if the F-35 doesn't pan out for them.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 17):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
The A330 could still become a vital Airbus weapon for the 2007-2015 period.

Yes...and the F-104 could make a comeback for the RNLAF if the F-35 doesn't pan out for them.

LOL!!! that's classic!!!


User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Unlikely IMO, the 787 & A370 probably won't be in the same segment anyway.
An emerging reality still 90% of the public / press hasn't picked up.

Keesje,

Based on what Airbus has been describing for their new bird, I was kind of wondering when much of the public/press was going to pick up on this too!

Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
MD11s were ordered, but replaced with an A343-order, which was changed into a B777 order...



Quoting Johnny (Thread starter):
SIA has a long history in ordering and canceling airplanes.Sometimes before delivery...

As pointed out, the MD-11 was cancelled prior to delivery due to the shortcomings with the performance of the aircraft. However, (IIRC) technically, SQ never cancelled any of their A340 order. They never exercised any of the options, but I think that their order was for only 16 aircraft, of which all were built and delivered. Granted the last few ended up never operating for SQ, but I don't think that any were cancelled. However I could be wrong and I welcome anyone to correct me on that.

Anyway, my point is, SQ doesn't just go and order and airplane and then cancel it for $h!ts & giggles or to piss of the manufacturer. They have a reason for replacing the aircraft and if the 787 meets its performance goals they will probably keep it. If the A370 turns out to be an awesome aircraft that offers them substantial benefits over the 787, then they will probably replace it.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
TAM would likely sign up, it is one of the most anti-Boeing companies I've seen.

But can you really bank-roll an entire longhaul product on carriers the likes of TAM? No offense, but they are hardly the name-brand customers that Airbus needs to ensure the success of the A350/A370.

Are the big airlines like EK, LH, QR in these circles? Some huge customers have already chosen Boeing...

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Short term asian lift capasity could play an important role in a 777 replacement RFP, the 787 won't be available in time. The A330 could still become a vital Airbus weapon for the 2007-2015 period.

This becomes less and less an option with every passing day. Perhaps if they had ordered the aircraft one of the other three times they evaluated the A330, but at this period, the clock is ticking.

The gap in which SQ could effectivly utilize the A330 is more like 2007-2010, not 2015. That's a very small niche. The best replacement for a 777 may just be another 777 until the 787 arrive.


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 957 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7182 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
Given the growing anti-American feeling in some circles, launch customers for the A370 will not be a problem

Air Jihad and Air Qaida do come to mind. And so do ongoing orders for complete airframes. (Parts would be a different matter, however)



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7046 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
Given the growing anti-American feeling in some circles, launch customers for the A370 will not be a problem. Just scan the A350 order list. TAM would likely sign up, it is one of the most anti-Boeing companies I've seen.

Oh boy, I was waiting for the old "anti-American" diatribe to start.  sarcastic 



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

I don't think SIA would want to cancel or switch an order of a very comfortable and efficient plane for a plane that is just very similar to her her brothers and sisters! What I mean by this is that the A50 looked very similar to the A330 and probably the A370 will also have a similar look. To me and airline ordering the A350 or A370 is just like ordering an A330 but with longer range. Besides that, the Boeing 787 just looks impressive with her new cockpit and efficiencies. Many other Boeing's like the 747-8 are getting similar things of a magnificent NEW LOOK airliner!

So just think JOHNNY, an airline would not want to cancel an order of a magnificent plane that has not even rolled out yet and it already has orders for more than 400 of a variety of series.

Big version: Width: 1200 Height: 800 File size: 261kb


Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 79kb



Joe.  Wink


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 20):
Are the big airlines like EK, LH, QR in these circles? Some huge customers have already chosen Boeing...

Very well said Dfw, and it's for the reasons you mentioned that I believe that LH will order Boeing aircraft this year. LH's CEO has made it clear that it will NOT become an all-Airbus carrier.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
25 Incitatus : What I wrote was not diatribe so no need to rush into pulling a race-like card on me. The following is a fact: Some airlines and governments take pol
26 Dutchjet : Right, sure it isnt. After SQ indepth analysis of the 787, they will stick with the type, no discussion. SQ cancelled their MD11 order for only one r
27 Greaser : don't forget those perky 727s!! as well as the 747-300???
28 F4N : Dutchjet: Spot on; although at this point, it probably represents wishful thinking on the part of the thread starter more than anything else. regards
29 DfwRevolution : Oh please, do you think Airbus wouldn't give up TAM, Finnair, and Air Europa combine to win just one carrier like Qantas, Singapore, or Emirates ?? I
30 Radelow : You say this and then say it's not an A vs. B thread. Yea....right....
31 JayinKitsap : SIA ordered fewer 787's than was the anticipated totals for this RFP. What does that mean, it could be: a) They are planning further orders once the d
32 Airtropolis : I am not so sure that those are necessarily poorer delivery slots. Bear in mind that SQ chose the B787-9 and not either the B787-3 or -8. The first B
33 Post contains images Johnny : @ Radelow Exactly.This is far away from a A vs. B thread. And reading all the posts i see most people answering this thread think the same. Sorry, tha
34 Cure : That's too heavy. Airbus should first count itself lucky of being the only one offering an airplane capable of carrying until 800 pax to a company in
35 PolymerPlane : what was the anticipated RFP? I thought upto 40 planes in one order is plenty much. I know QF has something like upto 115 planes, but 40 planes is mo
36 Zvezda : SQ's first batch of B777-200ERs were delivered between 11 April 1997 and 19 August 1999 and would need to be replaced between 2009 and 2011 if SQ hol
37 Picard : If you put it like that the 787 is just a 767 with longer range.
38 MCIGuy : [quote=American777,reply=23] Cool pics, American777! Am I mistaken, or is that a CGI 787?! BTW, What's up with the SIA 748? Is this a sign of things t
39 Post contains images Halls120 : Yeah, right. Aren't you the same person who started the 787 might be delayed thread? Maybe I should start a "I might win the megamillions lottery" th
40 Post contains images American777 : Do not mistaken me, but the Boeing 767 and 787 share a lot of differences! The A350 (A370 supposedly to become) have many similarities to the regular
41 Post contains links Leelaw : Flight International, 20 June 2006 by Max Kingsley-Jones Manufacturer Plays Down SIA 787-9 Selection Airbus and Singapore Airlines say the carrier's d
42 DAYflyer : Right on.
43 Zvezda : I have no doubt that if Airbus are willing to spend $10B on development, as reported, then they can beat the B777. Beating the B787 would be much mor
44 MaartenV : This thread (or at least the title) is comparable with the 'Qatar taking over Lufthansa' thread which was around a couple of minutes some days ago. Ag
45 Glareskin : Let's do some more speculation: North American airlines soon most profitable in the world.CO, AA, NH and WN change fleet to all Airbus after 787 debac
46 GBan : May I add: Pointless thread on A.Net getting no response.
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