This is most likely ATA's order where they cancelled the -800 and maybe now they have decide to opt for some -700's?
The 787 is a total mystery... but I wouldn't be surprised if an airline is going to trade up to the 777 so they free up some 787 slots for another airline, like SQ?
Katekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5519 times:
I think it's no surprise that we will see some cancellations of B787 orders, as some of the orders where of doubtful quality anyway (Panorama Blue, First Choice, ......).
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 49 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5488 times:
But I believe BLue Panorama and First Choice finalized their orders. What changed? And if they were going to cancel them why only 3 and not all of them (the only airline that has 3 787s on order is Xiaman Airlines)?
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21045 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5386 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter): Appearance of 3 787 (yes, 787) cancellations. I wonder who?
Part of me wonders if this is an accounting thing regarding CO's 13 orders + 10 from before = 20. Only thing is, CO only officially had 7 orders hit the books, but if this new order is at a different price, there might be some kind of accounting thing going on here, where the 3 CO orders will be adjusted to having been booked last year and then canceled this year with the new order?
Just a thought.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 49 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5312 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): Part of me wonders if this is an accounting thing regarding CO's 13 orders + 10 from before = 20. Only thing is, CO only officially had 7 orders hit the books, but if this new order is at a different price, there might be some kind of accounting thing going on here, where the 3 CO orders will be adjusted to having been booked last year and then canceled this year with the new order?
Just a thought.
That would be weir. Last year CO firmed 7 of the 10 that they initially ordered. Just a few weeks ago the ordered nother ten and we saw on Boeing's order book a posting for 13 (firming 3 from last years order + 10 from this year). Now why would CO take back 3? It just doesn't make any sense.
Katekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5312 times:
Quoting Ti717 (Reply 11): The 3 787 are CO from Last year. Notice the it says 13 for the 787 order this year. This means that it is a zero net gain on 787 orders.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): this is an accounting thing regarding CO's 13 orders + 10 from before = 20.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 49 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5215 times:
Quoting Katekebo (Reply 14): Quoting Ti717 (Reply 11):
The 3 787 are CO from Last year. Notice the it says 13 for the 787 order this year. This means that it is a zero net gain on 787 orders.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
this is an accounting thing regarding CO's 13 orders + 10 from before = 20.
I think you are right.
But that is assuming that CO firmed up all 10 787s from last year as well as firming 13 787s this year. I don't think that has happened.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21045 posts, RR: 60 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5113 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 15): But that is assuming that CO firmed up all 10 787s from last year as well as firming 13 787s this year. I don't think that has happened.
not necessarily. as I said, sometimes for accounting, you have to firm up something just to cancel it and rebook it.
I'm not saying that's what happened, but it is a possibility. I've seen that kind of thing in other businesses, and it might also account for the 737 changes too, since CO ordered both this year and had orders already on the books for both...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26961 posts, RR: 83 Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5084 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 15): But that is assuming that CO firmed up all 10 787s from last year as well as firming 13 787s this year. I don't think that has happened.
Perhaps CO firmed 7 of their 10 last year. They then told Boeing they'd like 10 more, if they could get a better price on those ten plus the three they haven't yet firmed. Boeing said yes, CO cancelled the three under the "old" price and bought them (again), now under the "new price" along with ten more under the "new" price.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 49 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5072 times:
Possible. In the end we'll all find out. It's relatively minor and if it is a true cancellation by an airline then it opens up three early (hopefully) slots that can be used for a bigticket carrier (EK, QR?).
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21045 posts, RR: 60 Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4854 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 18): Perhaps CO firmed 7 of their 10 last year. They then told Boeing they'd like 10 more, if they could get a better price on those ten plus the three they haven't yet firmed. Boeing said yes, CO cancelled the three under the "old" price and bought them (again), now under the "new price" along with ten more under the "new" price.
that's my theory if it is CO. and those old orders would actually go into the books last year if they wanted them to, depending on what the contract dates said.
but it might be someone else. Nobody ordered 3 only so it's not a customer completely backing out.
Perhaps NW pairing back their order to 15 under BK?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4716 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
I'm not saying that's what happened, but it is a possibility. I've seen that kind of thing in other businesses, and it might also account for the 737 changes too, since CO ordered both this year and had orders already on the books for both...
Boeing hasn't updated the 787 model orders and deliveries page, and they still list only 7 there from last year. I don't see why they would cancel 3 CO orders with adding another 3 to CO's orders.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20): but it might be someone else. Nobody ordered 3 only so it's not a customer completely backing out.
Xiamen Airlines only has 3 ordered, out of the 60 ordered by China.
[Edited 2006-06-16 04:23:31]
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16320 posts, RR: 52 Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4599 times:
Here's my theory:
CO originally ordered 10 787-800s in 2004 for delivery begining in 2009, however they only firmed up 7 of those original 10.
Fast forward to June 2006 and CO announces another 10 787s, the second batch is scheduled for delivery begining in 2011 (I believe?). However the new order is actually for 13, making CO's total firm order 20 787s.
I have a feeling that another huge customer wanted a certain amount of early 2009 787 delivery spots, to accomodate the customer Boeing went to CO whom they have an excellent relationship with and asked them to give up three early delivery spots in exchange a substantial discount on the next batch of 13 787s and the 26 additional 737NGs.
Boeing cancelled the three 2009 787s for CO, and they worked out a new agreement for an additional 13 787s to be delivered in 2011.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 PanAm_DC10: PhilSquares is correct. It should be noted though that the CASC retains the 3 x 787 slots. Regards, PanAm_DC10
26 PhilSquares: Please see previous post..... For all you doubters, here's the reference http://lister.speednews.com/a/061606ht/jun16.pdf
27 PolymerPlane: This is kinda good right, since in order race the airframe counts, not the value. This will give Boeing better edge right? . Anyway, I do not think B
28 PanAm_DC10: The question now is. Who get's the 3 x 788 delivery slots? Regards, PanAm_DC10
29 Atmx2000: But because Boeing books its Chinese orders without cooking the books, they have to show the cancellation. Were they scheduled to get aircraft before
30 AerospaceFan: I would imagine that the three 787 slots could go to someone else if appropriate arrangements could be made. Demand for the 787 is a bit overheated ri
31 Blsbls99: Will the 6 737s for Xiamen come out of the new 80 737s that were ordered by CASC this year? I would assume that CASC will still hold the slots/purchas
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