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UA To Drop Some Long-Haul Routes  
User currently offlineNopeotone From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 158 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17427 times:

After reading the article regarding 1,000 management salaries to be dropped, it also includes Tilton saying that some long-haul flights will be dropped. They don't make sense with 65 dollars a barrel.
Anyone have any ideas which long-haul flights might be dropped by UA? I would like to hear peoples ideas on this.

(Tilton also told the gathering that some long-haul flights will be dropped because of stubbornly high fuel prices that have averaged more than $65 per barrel, but he didn't specify the flights.)

98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1019 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17300 times:

I'm not sure, but I'm curious too.

To be honest, I don't give a shit about UA anymore  Smile J/K. When they decide to fly their 777s to Brasil, fly from MIA and back to Belo Horizonte I will start flying them again. ohhhhhhhh... also... and when they get rid of their damn TED product line too. I fly out of Orlando and lost over 50 500-mile upgrades because I can't fly anywhere but LAX and SFO on regular UAL.


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 17064 times:

Quoting Nopeotone (Thread starter):
Anyone have any ideas which long-haul flights might be dropped by UA?

1x LHR-IAD
1x LHR-ORD
LHR-JFK

NRT-SEA
NRT-JFK

AMS-ORD


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16958 times:
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I don't see UA leaving JFK, as it makes them money. Same with NRT-SEA.

We know SFO-CDG is going (might already be gone) and AMS might be another...


User currently offlineMymiles2go From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16958 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 2):
1x LHR-IAD
1x LHR-ORD
LHR-JFK

NRT-SEA
NRT-JFK

AMS-ORD

Is that just random speculation, or?


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16793 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I don't see UA leaving JFK, as it makes them money. Same with NRT-SEA.

Do you have direct access to United's recent profit report by route? I would not be so confident that any route makes money, unless I could check the figures.



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User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16751 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 2):
NRT-SEA



Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I don't see UA leaving JFK, as it makes them money. Same with NRT-SEA.

I agree. SEA-NRT is now operated by NW and UA. NW is now daily A332 and UA is a daily 777. These flights are relatively full in all areas. Don't think they will be going anywhere.

I just hope that SFO-NGO stays.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16561 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5):
Do you have direct access to United's recent profit report by route? I would not be so confident that any route makes money, unless I could check the figures.

A voice of reason...thank you. It's all speculation until we know which routes are profitable above the $65/bbl fuel cost level. And I doubt those figures will ever show up here.

In economics terms, the flights that will likely be suspended (not dropped altogether) are likely still overall profitable for UA, but with the increase in marginal cost (CASM) the analysis suggests that UA is better off in the long run by saving the fuel and possibly routing pax on partner airlines instead and still picking up some shared revenues.

I'm glad to see UA making the effort to make these decisions and not fly the routes anyway just for prestige. It just may make the difference between UA continuing to rebound or going back in the wrong direction.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16502 times:

Does anyone know how UA's flights to GRU/EZE are doing? I would imagine that South American flights might get the ax first because UA is relatively weak in Latin America compared to AA, CO, and DL. Of course if they did give up the valuable rights, DL and CO would stand to benefit so UA might not do that.

User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16454 times:

All I know is that UA to GRU/EZE has been some what full all the way up to October of this year. I can't get my 6 clients on UA because their are no seat left in any class. And when I check at random seating, UA was over 80% full on their flights.....

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16362 times:

UAL has been shedding routes based on rasm/casm since 2000...a lot more since filing chapt 11 obviously. As oil remains high this weeding out will continue. However, my recollection is that UAL has made several statements over the past year that the criteria is where can UAL get the best bang for the buck for the next 4 years with a no-growth long haul fleet. Routes that are only marginally profitable and little perceived chance for better results apparently will be shed for sure hitters and those new routes that planners believe have a better growth/profit capability over the period both as a standalone and in conjunction with their Star partners.

User currently offlineUA868 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16322 times:

I do not see any pacific route going, that is the main money maker. I could see the LHR-JFK going plus maybe the day flight IAD-LHR. Also maybe closing AMS since they cant close BRU for Political reasons.

BTW....Tonytifao, you do not loose your 500 mile upgrades they become normal miles once they expire.

868


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16287 times:
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Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5):
Do you have direct access to United's recent profit report by route? I would not be so confident that any route makes money, unless I could check the figures.

Not the specific numbers, but I do know the trends per discussions with UA management. SEA-NRT does pretty good on paid First and Business Class and during baseball season, fills up the back with Japanese Tour Groups coming to see Ichiro.

JFK is a specialty market for UA, served pretty much solely by their business clients. This is why they use the p.s. service (and First and Business revenue has risen significantly since per UA's own press releases) and why they only serve LHR and NRT from there while most of their STAR partners have significant presence to cities throughout Europe and Asia.


User currently offlineShane From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16234 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
I would imagine that South American flights might get the ax first

they'd have to be stupid considering the state of affairs with Varig.


User currently offlineMymiles2go From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16206 times:

I would agree that it would be highly unlikely you'll see any Pacific routes cut, especially to/from NRT.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16112 times:

Well this is an interesting a purely speculative topic. I personally would guess that they would want to cut flights on the most competitive routes. That would probably be flights across the North Atlantic. I'll take a shot in the dark and say that Chicago-Munich might end since UA hasn't flown the route for long and they compete against LH.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineUA868 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16047 times:

true....the MUC and the ZRH has been a waist of A/C

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16026 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 6):
I just hope that SFO-NGO stays

NGO won't be dropped. United landed a plum when they got the Toyota corporate travel account. They've made a commitment to Toyota which requires them to fly from NGO.


User currently offlineSJC>SFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15949 times:

MUC and ZRH are both 763 flights, which makes me wonder where these aircraft will be re-allocated. They don't have the range for Asia ops or the configuration for Hawaiian flightsm, which leaves only existing destinations in Europe and South America, unless they want to start new service.

User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15828 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
they compete against LH.

Not exactly. One could argue that they compete for o/d pax, but ORD-MUC is essentially a hub to hub flight with strong feed at both ends. The capacity is definitely needed in high season. From my own observation, the IAD-ZRH flight is now feeding LX flights to Africa and India and seems to have strong loads (though, as we all know, loads and yield are two different things).



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15769 times:

Couldn't help but notice that everyone is talking internationally, what about trans-con in the states. Maybe some long hauls out of IAD, or ORD?

User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5524 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15769 times:

With dropping some route is UA thinking of increase capacity on other routes??

User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15605 times:

At the Merrill Lynch conference, although it was not discussed, an accompanying slide said that they would reduce the gaugernin the Pacific. At present, only 772s and 744s are used across thernPacific. Either they would switch some 744 flights to 772s or 772s torn763s.

A previous poster mentioned that the Pacific flights arernout of range of the 763. I am not so sure of that. The 763ER has arnrange of 5875nm, which should be enough to get from the West Coast to Japan, PEK and PVG, particularly with the relaxed ETOPS rules. Some destinations from LAX like HKG are probably too far but they can use it on routes like SEA-NRT, SFO-NGO-TPE, SFO-KIX, NRT-BKK or maybe NRT-HKG. They would probably not want to use it in China due to the 763's cargo limitations.

They could so something like upgaugue the two 763s IAD-LHR to one 772.
If they did use the 763 in the Pacific, I would hope they would do the previously announced upgrading of the First and Business cabins, so that they would be competitive with other carriers.


User currently offlineJasonCRH From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 296 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15576 times:

United has an agreement with LH that allows them to share all revenue 50/50 on their transatlantic routes. it is part of their antitrust immunity with LH. this makes ALL their german routes, including ORD-MUC, goldmines, somethign they want to add more of, not reduce

User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15499 times:

They will never go 763 on SFO-NGO-TPE. Cargo loads on the NGO-TPE leg are particularly high and only 772 capacity can match.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
25 Trex8 : the 767s will not have adequate range going westbound at what point would the price of fuel make it more economical to make a technical stop somewher
26 N1120A : That would be just plain stupid That would be even stupider Not likely Waste would be the word and no they aren't. MUC is part of the UA/LH antitrust
27 Oobitsa : While not having any knowledge of their profit/loss by route, I can tell you that it is IAD-LHR is always packed to the gills when I fly it, which is
28 Hiflyer : Didn't someone post elsewhere awhile back that UA has a problem with pilot crew rest on the 767? unlike the 777 or 747. Believe it was said that they
29 JasonCRH : IAD-LHR? try that route in the off season - January/February/ March (EXCLUDING SPRING BREAK) and even parts of April and Early May.. i flew those fli
30 Stitch : NH is starting up ORD-NRT, so perhaps UA will drop that route? They don't serve NRT from IAD (NH handles it), so it wouldn't be a shock if they let NH
31 Rottamo : Do you think that they are making money in these routes and if so why? Good yields? High PRASM? Rottamo
32 TOLtommy : A few of you have commented on certain routes that always appear to be full. Full flights don't equal profitable flights. Or even a profit margin that
33 ORD2PHL : As long as they don't get rid of the morning IAD-LHR flight, I don't care what they do! ORD2PHL
34 STT757 : Here's my take depending on how deep they cut: IAD, ORD-GRU/EZE JFK-LHR JFK-NRT HNL-KIX
35 SeeTheWorld : I can't imagine they'd pull completely out of GRU or EZE, primarily because of Varig. Also, if they drop flights in LHR or NRT, they would replace the
36 JasonCRH : are you kidding? UA flies that route twice daily. UA and NH DO NOT share revenues on that route. even though UA may codeshare on on the IAD-NRT route,
37 JpetekYXMD80 : This is pure speculation and should be stated as such. Take this users comments with a grain of salt.
38 N1120A : Someone at United would have to be truely possessed by the "I don't want to make money fairy" this isn't going to happen. ORD is United's largest sta
39 SeeTheWorld : In addition, while Wall Street was a little disappointed with the CASM and with their fuel cost assumptions coming out of bankruptcy, their unit reve
40 UA772IAD : Interesting topic, I have heard the opposite from the FAs on my United Flight today, from SFO-IAD. They didn't mention anything about any routes being
41 CWAFlyer : Not to mention how valuable the LHR slots are. Can they simply use the same slots to fly the IAD, JFK, and ORD flights to LAX or any other UA hub? JF
42 BigGSFO : Personally, if UA were to drop any long-hauls, I would guess it would be South America. Given that it takes 2 aircraft for each route, this could free
43 Carpethead : How about NH picking up some Japanese-US flying, so that UA can deploy its aircraft elsewhere in its system? NH doesn't have any shortage of long-haul
44 NWDC10 : UA should cut back where they are "weakest" and that is South America Routes. Then UA should try to become stronger on their strongest routes. What is
45 N1120A : Yes they can, as long as said slots are used within a certain time window. Actually, they split them in spite of antitrust as they have an exemption
46 An-225 : Dropping routes is pure speculation at this point. Alex.
47 Post contains images UAL777UK : Agreed, and then merge with CO and get a stronghold in South America...see its easy really when you think about it!
48 Panamair : Looking at Q1 06 though, didn't UA end up at the higher end of the mainline non-fuel CASM chart? They reported 8.03 cents vs. 7.97 at NW, 7.82 at DL,
49 Post contains images Rottamo : Stronger yields has helped a lot. I don't have to think There are some public information about these routes available like DOT data from where you c
50 Post contains images KLMNW : I don´t think UA is complaining about the yields on the AMS flights. The IAD-AMS-IAD flight (UA946-UA947) is a pretty good performer, usually they h
51 VinnieWinnie : Why is that? Don't see why politics is involved in this strategic redeployment?
52 JasonCRH : as i said above, in the LOW SEASON it's very weak. In the high season there is not nearly enough capacity. i flew that route every single week for th
53 Mcdu : I have read all the reports from Tilton's meeting and have found nowhere did he say UA was cutting routes. Could someone post a link to the statement?
54 MalpensaSFO : It is the most talked about list of routes to be dropped by United Airlines, do a search here on Airliners and you will find time and time again thes
55 EXAAUADL : LHR would be difficult to drop as the slots are use or lose. I think the same is true with NRT. UAL needs to institute the same day of week cancels th
56 Richierich : I agree with N1120A - I wouldn't plan on those drops happening any time soon.
57 Rwylie77 : Just out of interest, who feeds UA's Seattle to Tokyo flights? Do they have a mini hub there? Does anyone have a hub in Seattle?
58 BigGSFO : UA fills the flight mostly with O&D however I am sure there is some connecting traffic from their UAX flights from GEG, PDX and mainline from DEN, OR
59 UAL777UK : you proved his point, this is complete speculation, Tilton has not said they are dropping international routes at all.......if he has, then post the
60 AADC10 : They would for some flights. The 772ER has less than 100nm greater range than the 763ER, so most routes that can be flown with a 772 can be operated
61 MalpensaSFO : SEA-NRT, HNL-NRT, HNL-KIX, SFO-NRT, SFO-KIX, SFO-NGO, SFO-LHR, SFO-FRA all can be operated with the 767-300ER. Now the question is does United Airlin
62 Post contains links Mymiles2go : Seriously, read his quote. To get his quote, enter in UAUA into Yahoo Finance and look at the related press articles: From the article - http://biz.y
63 Gunsontheroof : But UA is one of the few carriers that AS doesn't have anything in the way of a codeshare with, so I doubt UA's NRT flight gets much (if any) feed fr
64 UA772IAD : Before going into the economic advantages, it seems more logical than Kuwait.
65 Mymiles2go : Primarily it's O&D to/from Seattle, with supplemental from PDX/YVR/GEG. Keep in mind that anybody going from DEN will likely route via SEA anyways si
66 Cslusarc : I wonder would DEN-NRT be a stronger route than SEA-NRT? DEN-NRT is UA hub to UA/Star Hub, while SEA-NRT is UA spoke to UA/Star Hub. (Also YVR is near
67 Post contains images BradWray : Could it be possable that one of them is MAN as there is a lot of flights from MAN to the US and they are no where near sell outs? Thanks, Bradley!
68 Jyatlantic : There is no SFO-AMS.
69 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : I think you should begin to seek another carrier that will meet your demands. When you find one let me know. By the way if UAUA implemented your requ
70 Trex8 : their website shows a 1600nm difference!
71 CXA330300 : I would be very sceptical about UA dropping any LHR routes now. They've dropped the second JFK-LHR but I think they'll keep the rest..............I wo
72 RwSEA : SEA is a larger city with closer ties to Asia, and more tourism by Asian tourists. At the same time, SEA is an important city for UA, maybe even a fo
73 MalpensaSFO : Correction, Kuwait, is going to be going out with fare paying F and C pax. The route is being flown for the premium traffic, not the consolidated eco
74 MainMAN : UA doesn't serve MAN In May, approx 110,000 passengers used the DL, BA, VS, AA, BD CO and US services between MAN and the USA, producing a load facto
75 Bicoastal : Anyone know from which routes UA will pull 777s in order to do the Kuwait City route next October???
76 Aio86 : Why couldn't United use the 767 on Trans-pac flights like Air Canada. Is it simply a question of range that YVR is an hour or two less flying time tha
77 QXatFAT : No way they would ax these. ORD-GRU and IAD-GRU are too good of flights. All GRU flights I believe with any american carrier are doing fairly well. S
78 Stylo777 : Maybe one of the three FRA-ORD runs???
79 FiveMileFinal : Or the evening SFO-LHR flight, which does quite well despite the daily competition from both BA and VS. Whenever I fly it, I always see both the F an
80 UAL777UK : no way will they reduce the LHR-SFO frequencies, these are great routes for UA, with good yields up front.
81 LHUSA : I really doubt that would happen. Thier 2 ORD-FRA flights are packed year-round in F, C, & Y with what I assume are very strong yields. The cooperati
82 MalpensaSFO : Both SFO-LHR flights may very well be 744 in 2007. Rotation off of one of the Asia routes will allow the fleet movement.
83 UAL777UK : Well if they have installed there new seats in F and J and at least put overhead screens in Y, that would make a hell of alot of sense, this route is
84 AirlineAddict : Wow, I can't believe that Manila is on the list... Unless it's an A320 or 757 connector from NRT to MNL which NH does not even fly.
85 GoldenArgosy : ORD-KIX Flew it in April and flight was half full. Price was rock bottom $655. Way lower than any of their Asia flights. Wouldn't be surprised to see
86 Avatordon : Doubt that either ORD or IAD to GRU will go. Auto companies in DTW have large operations in Brazil, and UA carries a lot of DTW-GRU traffic for Ford,
87 Post contains images BananaBoY : I presume you mean Personal screens in Y - they already have overhead screens. On a selfish note.. please no more 744's to LHR. If I have to suffer e
88 LO231 : Can anyone tell me what's the deal with BRU-IAD? I have many Star Alliance customers, and whenever I try to book them to the US, I end up with LH, 'co
89 Cslusarc : Isn't BRU-IAD filled with government travel to international organizations based in Brussels like the Inernational Court of Justice.
90 LO231 : I'm not sure, but somebody fills that plane really well every day!! Regards, LO231
91 Gigneil : That's not right. Their 777-200ER should be able to top 7100nm or so, even with their low MTOW. N
92 LJ : Both US and UA get a significant part of the high yielding pershible cargo (or better flower) business to the US. For US the sole reason to fly to AM
93 Halls120 : When I go to Tokyo, I always go IAD-SEA-NRT. Very nice flight.
94 WorldTraveler : what is the MTOW of UA's 772ERs and is it limited by the PW engines or UA's choice of lower MTOW?
95 UAL777UK : They dont have overhead screens, all they have is the large screen at the front of the Y cabin, I meant overhead TV screens dotted throughout the cab
96 Post contains images KLMNW : Thanks for the information !
97 MalpensaSFO : Like most other airlines with a desire to be customer service oriented? i.e. KLM...
98 Karan69 : Hi guys for a person with interest in UA and who still needs to do a lot of researching on them can yoll please assist me by telling me the Longhaul r
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