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PAX 744s Converted To Freighters, Upper Deck Use?  
User currently offlineLanPeru From Peru, joined Jun 2001, 645 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

Similar to the the JAL 744 that is pictured below, some PAX 744s are being converted to Freighters, my question is, Can the upper deck still be used for scheduled passenger transport? I know that alot of airlines run thier frieghters on different routes for example LAX-ANC-NRT vs. LAX-NRT, but would this be a possibility?


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Photo © Yuxiaobin



11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

From what I understand, some of the upper deck is chopped out and becomes "dead air" but it also allows for more full height cargo area. A bulkhead is installed closer to the cockpit, and a space similar to 741/2 cargo aircraft is maintained for seats, galley, toilet, bed and other facilities to support staff and crew.

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

The bulkhead is located just behind the upper deck doors.

User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Could be use for crew rest also

User currently offline744rules From Belgium, joined Mar 2002, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
From what I understand, some of the upper deck is chopped out and becomes "dead air" but it also allows for more full height cargo area

This not relevant as the height of the Cargo Door is the limiting factor (max 300cm)


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting 744rules (Reply 4):
This not relevant as the height of the Cargo Door is the limiting factor (max 300cm)

It is relevant.

Look it up and learn before you correct someone. Under the upper deck, you can only have 8ft pallets, but for the rest of the jet you can have almost 10ft (118 in) tall pallets. Thus chopping out that section of deck allows for a few more taller pallets.

Otherwise, they wouldn't go through the expense!!!

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_pallet.html



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Under the upper deck, you can only have 8ft pallets, but for the rest of the jet you can have almost 10ft (118 in) tall pallets. Thus chopping out that section of deck allows for a few more taller pallets.

Correct. I haven't seen the 400BCF yet, but the 300SF. When you stand on the main deck and look up you can see right up to the ceiling of the rear half of the "hump". Of course the freight cannot be loaded all the way up, but 3m height is definitely an advantage over the 2.4m below the upper deck.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting Patroni (Reply 6):
Of course the freight cannot be loaded all the way up



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
the upper deck is chopped out and becomes "dead air" but it also allows for more full height cargo area

Thanks for reinforcing my information. It is a pretty well known fact about that, but I guess some people still want to argue the point.  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):

The link you provided is for the B747-400F... which does not have the extended upper deck. That is why the drawings are showing the 10ft pallets closer to the cockpit area. As far as converted 747-300 and now some -400 they can not just remove the sub-structure for the extended upper deck as it provides support to the fuselage in that area. Looking at the picture below, the support is raised to allow the 10ft pallets in.

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Photo © R-J van der Linden


[Edited 2006-06-17 01:58:26]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Guys, I don't know if I am reading this right, but I think we are all arguing the same point. However, the 747BCF will NOT carry the same amount of 10 ft. pallets as does the standard 747F. The standard 747F can carry 23 10 footers while the 747BCF can only carry 21. Compare this link..

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/avi...ices/brochures/747-400BCF_Card.pdf

Along with the one Ikramerica provided....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_pallet.html

The rear half floor of the extended upper deck is removed to support the capability for the 747BCF to hold 10 ft. pallets, just not as many.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5291 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

These are the other guys who do 747-400 pax-cargo conversions. (The article shows how big the demand is: )
http://www.iai.co.il/Default.aspx?do...0&FolderID=32981&lang=en&PageNum=3

With regard to the upper deck, look under the Overview and Features tag to make clearer what happens (third from last item), at:

http://www.iai.co.il/Default.aspx?do...FolderID=32998&lang=en&res=0&pos=0
-
Also, neat movie of the conversion process on that page: "B-747-400 movie"

Boeing's aircraft was the -400SF until IAI/Bedek got going on their own -400SF, and Boeing changed the Boeing job to -400BCF, so the IAI/Bedek entry is now the -400BDSF (Bedek Special Freighter).


User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 9):
However, the 747BCF will NOT carry the same amount of 10 ft. pallets as does the standard 747F. The standard 747F can carry 23 10 footers while the 747BCF can only carry 21.

The 744BCF does indeed not carry as many 10ft pallets as the 744F, but the same number as the 742F or 743SF (21).

The 744F has a very small upper deck cabin, with less room than the other 747 freighter versions.


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