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Airbus, Parent Blame Each Other Over A380 Delays  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

WSJ 16 June 2006 (Fair Use Excerpt):

European plane maker Airbus and its parent company European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. headed for a major management showdown as executives traded blame for costly delays in deliveries of a key aircraft project, the A380 super-jumbo jet.

Top officials at EADS, which owns 80% of Airbus, said they learned in April that the A380 faced possible delays, the seriousness of which was confirmed by a company study completed over the weekend. EADS managers blame Airbus managers for the problems.

The recriminations bring to the fore simmering animosities between rivals and across national lines in EADS, a Franco-German industrial giant that had been considered a model of European integration. They also raise questions about communication and management oversight at the company, which was created in 2000 from the merger of aerospace companies in France, Germany and Spain...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115038257828781219.html

Looks like the blame game is about kick into high gear, this can't be helpful in the effort to sort things out?

[Edited 2006-06-16 08:19:17]

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

Yes, must say there was quite a lot of coverage about all this on the news on the different French TV channels last night. And all highly critical of what's happening, and many insinuations against Forgeard and even Hurbert, basically saying the some top heads could roll.


Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

Hardly sounds as if they're all beavering away making sure they have a world-beating A370 design to unveil at Farnborough in July, does it?  Smile


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
Hardly sounds as if they're all beavering away making sure they have a world-beating A370 design to unveil at Farnborough in July, does it

I would be very surprised if they announce any plans then, given the discord in EADS and Airbus.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
Hardly sounds as if they're all beavering away making sure they have a world-beating A370 design to unveil at Farnborough in July, does it?

Now that NAV20 I TOTALLY DIASAGREE with (sorry for shouting!). You know I had a great conversation with somebody from Airbus last night, and just shows the amount of total and utter bull-sh*t being spoken here on A.net amongst the Airbus bashers. General atmosphere in Airbus: as always, everyone getting on with their work.
Do they feel the company is in a bad situation: No.
Do they feel it's not the best moment in the company's history? No, they realise some hiccups, but are also aware of the rubbish coming out on placs like public internet forums, journalists who don't have a clue, financial speculators etc. who also don't have a clue about the complexities of the aeronautical industry.
Are they worried about the company's future: No, not really.
Are the 380 delays causing much concern within the company "in general": No, it was excpected.
As I said be on another thread and got flamed by a member, if the poroblem really is electrical wiring delaying the 380, is it not better to sort of the problem without rushing the job, even if this entails delays? Yes, as people at Airbus aim to provide as good a product as possible within their delays, earlier if possible, but sometimes technical probelms arise, and in this case may sound simple to some ignorant of the industry, but a wiring problem could be the justified cause of a delay, not only due to the wiring, but the knock-on negative effect this problem could have with other a/c systems.
What is the general attitude from clients re. Airbus (this person in constant contact with the airlines, not the $ greedy CEO's, but the pilots and operations staff and engineers)? The same as always, demanding (normal), but good atmosphere, nothing has changed, generally happy with Airbus response to their queries. And this person is contantly in quite a lot of contact with Qatar, Singapore Airlines and other airlines some A.netters claim are furious and sick of Airbus. In fact, maybe with the exception of the CEO's and some annoyance in certain departments over further 380 delays, relations are just fine.
Should this effect the 350/370? Probably no reason why it would.
Is Airbus a good manufacturer? Brilliant!
Is your main competitor, Boeing, a good manufacturer? Brilliant!
Extra info on above two questions: Competition is essential and difficult for both of us as we always want to be one step ahead. Airbus is ahead of Boeing at the moment in certain technologies/services, just as Boeing is ahead of Airbus at the moment in certain technologies/services.
Showed the person some of the posts here on a.net from some people who like to claim their highly knowledgeable... this persons response: laughed and thought what rubbish!
Nevertheless, the person does concede that perhaps some top management could be at fault and are not top-notch. Nevertheless, their influence on so many of the more vital departments within the company of relatively small.
Just wanted to share this with you.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

OK, Toulouse - that'll teach me not to put any more jokes on here.  Smile


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5842 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
OK, Toulouse - that'll teach me not to put any more jokes on here.

Oh, NAV20, believe it or not I do appreciate your humour and your opinions, which I do think are usually quite close to the truth!

Anyway, just wanted to get and share the opinion of somebody who is really involved with the company and really has a good idea of what's going on (certainly better than most of us on here, but obviously, as in any large company, the person won't know anyone).
One thing though, you have been highly critical of bad management in Airbus. This Airbus person agrees with this, but possible just at top level, while middle management is a different matter and would appear to be of a similar opinion.
By the way NAV20, what time is it where you are? You always seem to be online recently. Anyway good morning from Toulouse in Toulouse!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

"All of this seriously hurts the image of this European jewel" and "sharpens the teeth of Boeing," the daily Libération wrote Thursday. "And it gives a bit of grist for the mill ... for the bards of Euroskepticism."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...logy/2003064687_airbusprobe16.html

One name which hasn't come up in all the finger-pointing/cross-talk so far is Tom Enders, Co-CEO of EADS...perhaps he's being preserved to lead the "sort-out?" Perhaps he has clean enough hands to back the truck up to the barn?


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

Forgeard is blaming the Hamburg factory for the delays now. He says that they informed about delays too late.

Without inside information this is impossible to verify, but with the accusation on insider trading it looks like some one tries to cover his back (I would uise the other word in the German forum).

One could also say that, if information is received too late the reporting system was set up inadequatly. EADS is a public company and they must give ad-hoc notifications to the stock holders. Blaming others inside the company falls back on that person. Could it be that Forgeard's days in EADS are numbered?



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

I haven't seen this particular quote reported elsewhere:

Mr. Lagardère [Co-Chairman EADS] seemed to try to diffuse criticism over finger-pointing. He said he had no intention of making "heads roll just to please the market."

He added: "I'm not in the habit of not standing as one with my team."


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/16/business/worldbusiness/16airbus.htm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
Could it be that Forgeard's days in EADS are numbered?

I don't expect Mr. Forgeard will be wheeled out before President Chirac leaves office (Summer 2007?); unless it's determined his stock sales were crooked.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 6):
By the way NAV20, what time is it where you are? You always seem to be online recently. Anyway good morning from Toulouse in Toulouse!

Keeping odd hours at the moment, Toulouse - the World Cup coverage comes on here in the small hours (I'm secretly hoping for an Australia-England Final). Time difference is about ten hours ahead of you - it's 22.25 Friday at the moment.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 6):
One thing though, you have been highly critical of bad management in Airbus. This Airbus person agrees with this, but possible just at top level, while middle management is a different matter and would appear to be of a similar opinion.

I'm sure there are plenty of good people working for Airbus. Trouble is though, in a business like aviation, all the decisions are big ones, and therefore get taken at the top level. I used to work on big capital projects (billion-dollar ones, in the days when a billion dollars was a lot of money  Smile) and I found that the only way to succeed was to try see the other guy's viewpoint as well as, or even better than, you saw your own.

In that sort of business having good people at the middle levels isn't enough if the guys at the top are rubbish. Airlines with billions to spend will expect to communicate, ultimately, at CEO level. It's even wrong, in my view, to think of them as 'customers' - essentially, they should be treated as 'clients'.

However good the A370 design may turn out to be, it's up to the likes of Forgeard and Enders to sell it. Not just send people like Leahy to do the job.....



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
"All of this seriously hurts the image of this European jewel" and "sharpens the teeth of Boeing," the daily Libération wrote Thursday. "And it gives a bit of grist for the mill ... for the bards of Euroskepticism."

I think that the above analysis is premature in its last contention, in that Airbus, for all its public prominence, is really just one company, as is EADS. There are much larger and much more important issues for Euro-integrationists and their detractors to consider, including farm subsidies, the elimination of anti-competitive regulations, and -- last, but certainly not least -- a whole multitude of national sovereignty concerns arising from intangible beliefs of traditional populations, such as the religious. (The BBC reported yesterday that in Latvia, for example, enforcement legislation pertaining to sexual matters became an issue for a certain interest group that desired that the European authorities essentially force that country to enact same as part of the conditions of EU membership.)

If the Franco-British dispute over farm subsidies, for example, as serious as it was, hasn't riven Europe, then the questions over Airbus' leadership shouldn't do so, from all appearances at the moment. In my humble opinion, of course.

[Edited 2006-06-16 14:56:11]

User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5437 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
You know I had a great conversation with somebody from Airbus last night

Really? No further comment needed, I guess

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
General atmosphere in Airbus: as always, everyone getting on with their work.
Do they feel the company is in a bad situation: No.
Do they feel it's not the best moment in the company's history? No, they realise some hiccups, but are also aware of the rubbish coming out on placs like public internet forums, journalists who don't have a clue, financial speculators etc. who also don't have a clue about the complexities of the aeronautical industry.
Are they worried about the company's future: No, not really.

As you correctly state, Airbus employees are "aware of the rubbish coming out on placs like public internet forums, journalists who don't have a clue, financial speculators etc. who also don't have a clue [...]".

I'm afraid your comments exactly fall into that category.


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
Do they feel the company is in a bad situation: No.

That's a very unrealistic view of the situation if they feel that way. At least one senior member of the Airbus Board of Directors clearly disagrees with your position.

Quote:
Arnaud Lagardère, the French co-president of the board, warned yesterday of a "major crisis" at the world's top producer of passenger aircraft, announcing a probe to learn how the company had been allowed to go so far off the rails.

Monsieur Airbus clings to his job

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
Should this effect the 350/370? Probably no reason why it would.

Once again, I appreciate your confidence, but the mis-steps with the A350 program in combination with the latest A380 delay, create very serious problems for Airbus regarding credibility and customer confidence. Another comment by Arnaud Lagardère from the same article listed above:

Quote:
"It's not just the delay that investors are punishing, it's their lack of confidence in Airbus's ability to properly manage very complex projects," he told Le Monde newspaper.

For you to suggest these problems won't affect the A350/A370 is nonsense. This is not going to be business as usual for a while as though none of this stuff happened. Airbus has lots of hard work ahead of it to restore confidence and trust before customers will risk participating in another new Airbus wide-body program.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4315 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):

You're real name isn't John Leahy by any chance, is it?

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 12):
As you correctly state, Airbus employees are "aware of the rubbish coming out on placs like public internet forums, journalists who don't have a clue, financial speculators etc. who also don't have a clue [...]".

I'm afraid your comments exactly fall into that category.

 checkmark 



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5737 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5333 times:

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 13):
Once again, I appreciate your confidence, but the mis-steps with the A350 program in combination with the latest A380 delay, create very serious problems for Airbus regarding credibility and customer confidence. Another comment by Arnaud Lagardère from the same article listed above:

Quote:
"It's not just the delay that investors are punishing, it's their lack of confidence in Airbus's ability to properly manage very complex projects," he told Le Monde newspaper.

For you to suggest these problems won't affect the A350/A370 is nonsense. This is not going to be business as usual for a while as though none of this stuff happened. Airbus has lots of hard work ahead of it to restore confidence and trust before customers will risk participating in another new Airbus wide-body program.

I would like to add to Bravo11 comment regarding the effects of the A380 issues on the A350/A370....EADS and the rest of the shareholders have to review and approve Airbus' plan for this aircraft(s). Not only what they're offeing but marketing, pricing, support, etc. Given the turmoil and the recriminations between the two entities, I can see EADS not giving a fast approval track to this project because they will want to scrutinize the plans more carefully. This is, afterall, a $10bn project and after the A380 and A350 fiascos they want to make sure that they (Airbus and EADS) are not put in a similar situation again.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

As to the magnitude of the problem that faces Airbus in the development of the new version of its A350, I am of the belief that that remains to be determined.

Were Airbus a typical corporation, it would be subject to normal issues of whether the banking industry, financial analysts, and investor class would retain sufficient confidence and interest in its leadership, which could then have very significant effects on such banal things as whether loans could be granted, on what terms, etc. Airbus is, of course, unusual, in that it retains a substantial government association.

In any event, I think I am on safe ground when I say that major stakeholders, actual or potential, would be very interested in the company's fundamentals over the longer term; the only anomalous thing in this respect that worries me for the fate of Airbus is the fact that its associated stock has dropped so precipitously, which, in colloquial terms, raises "red flags" for me.

I think a bit of objectivity and rationality is in order, and insert a note of caution accordingly.

Perhaps if I had all the facts at my disposal, I, too, would sell off any stock as relates to Airbus that I, hypothetically, owned, but then again, I might not, and from my perspective, more facts are clearly needed, and I wouldn't rule out the success of an uprated A350 in the future.

[Edited 2006-06-16 15:39:18]

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12359 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5290 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
Are the 380 delays causing much concern within the company "in general": No, it was excpected.

Lovely. Why worry their little heads over blowing 2B EUR or so? Time for a tea break!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineHb88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 814 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
Hardly sounds as if they're all beavering away making sure they have a world-beating A370 design to unveil at Farnborough in July, does it?

Lucky management aren't actually the ones working on the A350. In any case, there's been non-stop beavering in Airbus on the A350 for a long time now. "Toulouse" has got it partly right IMO, work still continues at Airbus, but I imagine that there are some people in Germany who are slighty uncomfortable at the moment.

It does seem odd that EADS would have the finger pointed at them when the delays are caused by bespoke wiring harness installation issues in Hamburg. I might be misunderstanding something, but this is a Airbus-DE project management failure and not really something attributable to EADS.

One frustrating thing is that I've heard quite a few media sources incorrectly stating that there are "electrical problems" with the A380 causing delays. This is incorrect, it's a ramp-up problem based on wiring harness installation leading to a bottleneck in TLS.


User currently offlineParabolica From Spain, joined Mar 2006, 85 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Good Afternoon Gentlemen,

Toulouse, I have no doubt that your colleagues at Airbus are in a boyant mood, and no one seriously thinks that the company is going to shrivel up and surrender when it is in fact, close to the bright light of an in-service A380.

However, as you yourself said in your opening post, it is the line workers, airline captains, crew chiefs, etc, who are confident and content with the way of things in Toulouse, not the airline CEOLs, department heads, or top management. Sorry to rain on your parade my friend, but these are the decision makers and the people who really count.

If the top staff have failed to run the projects smoothly, as clearly they have, then the customers have a right to be upset. It is true that Airliners.net has its fair share of guessing, industry armchair analysis and bull, but that does not alieviate certain known facts:

- Airbus failed to control suppliers and infrastructure so as to ensure delivery as close to on time as promised
- Airbus failed to recognise the strength and momentum of the 787
- Airbus publicly fumbled the A350/370 with contradictory official statements, radically changing specs, and finally, no definite product
- Airbus failed to address the above to the press and customer base in a timely and politically effective manner

Repeating over and over again that "this is not as serious as it looks" or complaining that many Europeans and Boeing supporters alike feel the need to express concern or critisism will not only not help Airbus, but fuels the apathy or arrogance or incompetance that contributed to making this mess in the first place.

And as you should know, (and for clarity for those A.netters who donLt) having a job contract in France as in many European countries allows you to be callous, as you are virtually immune to being fired, and are guarenteed compensation from the state/employer should you lose that job. This does not, a motivated playing field make. I wouldnLt take dinner with "some guy from Airbus" as being any more concrete a source than that of some A.net users.

P-



oh please let there never be cell phones in airliners...
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

I have enjoyed this post so far. So nice to see a contrite NAV20 on matters Airbus, thanks Toulouse for taming the Aussie.

If I was an Airbus employee I would do exactly what Toulouse tells us they're doing. When the going gets tough, you dig in deeper. If I know that I work for the company that produces the great family of planes, that's what will keep me working harder to iron out this latest problem. if I am not working on the A380, I double my efforts in my own department. I AM EADS, is the slogan, plane making is the game, ironing out the A380's problems is the fight, competing in the marketplace is the battle. All my Airbus peeps "put your lighters up" (Lil bit of Hip-Hop Big Ups)


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 19):
It does seem odd that EADS would have the finger pointed at them when the delays are caused by bespoke wiring harness installation issues in Hamburg. I might be misunderstanding something, but this is a Airbus-DE project management failure and not really something attributable to EADS.

Airbus is only a division of EADS, Hb88, EADS is the responsible entity.

In any case, it doesn't much matter what the cause is, or which part of the international consortium stuffed up. What matters is the effect. And the effect is that, as far as I can see, Airbus won't be able to sell another aeroplane for years.

If that sounds like an exaggeration, my reasoning is based on Airbus' credibility in the market being completely ''blown'. Given that the 'production delays' story and the share slide are already front page news, and there are clearly a lot more facts to come out about mismanagement and/or misinformation, imagine what would happen if the CEO of any airline were to walk into a board meeting and say that he wanted approval to spend several billions of dollars on buying aircraft from Airbus.

Now, or six months from now.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

oops spoke too soon

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
Given that the 'production delays' story and the share slide are already front page news,

Talking of share slide, I took your advice about a shares freefall in another thread and didn't buy EADS on the first full trading day after the A380 delay notice. They've been climbing ever since. Should have trusted my instinct not yours.

Anyway still got a good price, not that I am one to profit on other's misfortune


User currently offlineHb88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 814 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
Quoting Hb88 (Reply 19):
It does seem odd that EADS would have the finger pointed at them when the delays are caused by bespoke wiring harness installation issues in Hamburg. I might be misunderstanding something, but this is a Airbus-DE project management failure and not really something attributable to EADS.

Airbus is only a division of EADS, Hb88, EADS is the responsible entity.

Yes, I know that. For what it's worth, the issue in the post was over allocating blame. That is, real responsibility in a technical sense, not the abstract corporate governance sense. EADS as major shareholder does not have a great deal of control over the day to day operation of Airbus.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
In any case, it doesn't much matter what the cause is, or which part of the international consortium stuffed up. What matters is the effect. And the effect is that, as far as I can see, Airbus won't be able to sell another aeroplane for years.

Yes and no. It does matter what part of the organisation was at fault. If I was an airline purshasing exec, I would want to know exactly what the delay was caused by and how the management issues are going to be dealt with.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
If that sounds like an exaggeration, my reasoning is based on Airbus' credibility in the market being completely ''blown'. Given that the 'production delays' story and the share slide are already front page news, and there are clearly a lot more facts to come out about mismanagement and/or misinformation, imagine what would happen if the CEO of any airline were to walk into a board meeting and say that he wanted approval to spend several billions of dollars on buying aircraft from Airbus.

Now, or six months from now.

Again yes and no. I don't believe that Airbus credibility has now vanished. That would be a naive view and ignore the very successful and excellent aircraft that they do produce. No carrier wants a manufacturer monopoly and as I've said in another post, I think carriers will hedge purchasing decisions where they can and see what Airbus can do - not simply apply a knee-jerk reaction - no matter how much a.net readers wish it to be so. The management issues do need to be addressed and fast. Carriers didn't abandon Boeing through its difficult times and I think your funeral for Airbus is premature and ill-judged - although it's great material if you're a Boeing-booster.

I assume from the quotes around your 'production delays' that you don't believe this explanation. I'm afraid it's true - it's not a glamorous fault that can be debated ad-nausem on a.net.


User currently offlinePbottenb From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
Are the 380 delays causing much concern within the company "in general": No, it was excpected.

'scuse me? who expected delays? Airbus mgmt have been saying that this was totally unexpected? This smells like utter bullsh&t

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
What is the general attitude from clients re. Airbus (this person in constant contact with the airlines, not the $ greedy CEO's, but the pilots and operations staff and engineers)?

'scuse me again, but did this Airbus employee actually call the CEOS of his customer airlines "$ greedy CEO's"? or is this your hyperbole? If he/she/they actually said that then it gives us a glimpse into the prevailaing arrogance within the Airbus organization. If these are your words then you should perhaps post more carefully...either way - this post sucks!

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 4):
And this person is contantly in quite a lot of contact with Qatar, Singapore Airlines and other airlines

Again, sounds to me like this person is calling the CEO's of these organizations "$ greedy CEO's". Very telling, if this is in fact what "they said" then I would surmise that the problems ar Airbus run deep indeed, because one should NEVER shit on your customers, EVER...

[Edited 2006-06-16 16:47:43]

25 Post contains links and images Halibut : I wonder how they'll handle this one ? Halibut BREAKING NEWS ! Eads Shareholders Plan Lawsuit Against Managers (by Halibut Jun 16 2006 in Civil Aviat
26 Post contains images NAV20 : They've been trading in a narrow range between E18.00 and E20.00, EbbUK, on relatively low volume. The pattern is largely small sales followed by sma
27 EbbUK : I agree on this point, if the same old faces are knocking on the door trying to sell planes. New ideas on project managing punctuated by new faces at
28 Mham001 : Don't worry - be happy!
29 Hb88 : I've got to call Toulouse out on this one. For a start from where I sit, Airbus employees are deeply concerned with all this - how could anyone possi
30 Post contains images Revelation : Thanks, Hb88!
31 Post contains images Art : I agree. Airbus should have brought the A370 out a year ago and collected a raft of orders before they shot their credibility down with with the A3L8
32 Frequentflyer : Well.. whatever the employees in TLS think or the executives say here and there, Airbus clients and the Aircraft markets will provide the final verdic
33 EbbUK : thank you for your tips, I am learning new skills in the shares game. 2 euros per share is a lot for small fry like me. Well before A380 delays i was
34 Pbottenb : Well said Hb88. This sounds like how I would be feeling were I in a similar situation. Regardless of where one's loyalty lies, you have to feel sympa
35 Post contains images 787engineer : I think it is pretty naive of you to think Airbus's employees aren't the least bit concerned. I would be very concerned if the same thing happened wi
36 EbbUK : No but they could consider relocating to the US to help glue the plastic plane together couldn't they? Transferrable skills wouldn't you say? would b
37 AerospaceFan : I almost think that the EU would break apart before Airbus concedes the field to Boeing. From my perspective as an outsider, Airbus will be around fo
38 EbbUK : I think you're right. I used to take all things Airbus for granted and any problems that came up I would brush off with a bounce in my step, and with
39 AerospaceFan : EbbUK, the stakes are still a bit too high, I think, for even three turkeys (hypothetically) to equal a write-off. I mean, consider the various succes
40 Post contains images EbbUK : You're right a couple of stiff G&T's and the world will be alright again. Enjoy your weekend
41 Post contains images AerospaceFan : Thanks! Have a nice weekend as well.
42 ER757 : Some pretty divergent views here. I'll throw in my 2 cents' worth and put it in sports terminology. To the Airbus faithful - your team isn't playing
43 Post contains links Leelaw : EADS executive defends stock sale as 'coincidence' By ANGELA CHARLTON THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (Fair Use Excerpt): PARIS -- The embattled co-chief executi
44 Post contains links Leelaw : Forgeard fights back on French radio: transcript ...On major EADS shareholder Arnaud Lagardère’s comments that this is a major crisis: Of course it
45 Rheinbote : "Hey, it's just 2bn in losses, since most of the airline industry is in the red. And it's not my money anayway, I made my cut."
46 Lumberton : As I read all these threads concerning Airbus' difficulties of late, I can see that there will be no quick end to the bad press. I noted on another th
47 Leelaw : It ain't gonna be pretty. Much of the Airbus/EADS leadership seems to have been dissembling in their communications with third-parties on critical ma
48 Hb88 : It has nothing to do with weight at all from what I've heard in recent internal briefings. As for the sort-of-mystical weight problem, again, if it's
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