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KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!  
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

AFKL had a operational profit of 936M Euros for 2005/2006. Those 936 can be
divided in 504million on KL's behalf and 432million for AF.
Because of the difference in size KLM's profitmargin(7,9%) is therefore almost
double that of AF's.

I wonder what KLM does so much better then Air France???

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Quoting KLMCedric (Thread starter):
I wonder what KLM does so much better then Air France???

They have a much better image than Air France and AMS is a much better airport.
This summer I am flying transatlantic and I wanted KLM. When I called them, they told me that KLM planes are VERY full this summer, and that AF planes are emptier. People just prefer fly KLM whenever they have the choice.
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

Quoting KLMCedric (Thread starter):
KLM's profitmargin(7,9%) is therefore almost
double that of AF's.

I hope you also went for the KL profit related bonus in December  Wink ?

These are really good numbers, and in spite of some of the critics show we are doing the right thing.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

AF is operating in 2 Airports In Paris CDG and ORY that could be one reason

User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

Quoting KLMCedric (Thread starter):
I wonder what KLM does so much better then Air France???

= Maybe because KLM is a FAR superior product than AF and AMS is a breeze compared to CDG?

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 2):
I hope you also went for the KL profit related bonus in December ?

No, I didn't, just something I don't trust about this whole thing!


User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

Maybe it's due to that KLM keeps their planes in bright blue while AF let's their white planes turn to greyish  Wink

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

http://today.reuters.com/business/ne...basicIndustries&storyID=nL16588878

User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2190 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

Your title is not correct, Air France "makes" more money than KLM, as making money is judged on revenue. KLM's individual profits are higher though than AF.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 4):
= Maybe because KLM is a FAR superior product than AF and AMS is a breeze compared to CDG?

I beg to defer. The KLM product is inferior to Air France on both European and International. KL's product becomes even worse compared to AF on Asian routes upfront.

I do agree though that AMS is by far superior to CDG and probably the most efficient hub in Europe.

I'd say the extra profit comes with the fact that KLM have a centralised hub operation (unlike AF who have their main hub in CDG and quite a few focus cities such as ORY, NCE, LYS, etc... which each come with a cost).

Also the fact that KLM seem to be able to fill their European routes much more efficiently than AF (probably due to the second's way higher prices in Y).


User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 1):
and AMS is a much better airport.

I'll second that, I had to run through CDG recently to make my connections, I had to use my inhaler (asthma) while waiting on the bus to go to the plane stand....and its not because I'm not fit...5'4 115lbs..maybe it was the stress about not making my flight...

In any event, I would think AFs image is superior to that of KL...AF may offer a slightly better product than KL, but KL is improving, esp. with their new 332s. And, who does not agree the blue uniforms for the flight attendants are amazing!  Smile okay anyhow enough pointless talk


User currently offlineFlyingfool From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 9):
but KL is improving, esp. with their new 332s

Sorry a bit off-topic, last night I was flying home from my holiday at Rhodes (Greece) and the flight was operated by a KLM A330-200 on behalf of Martinair and I really like this aircraft.
Ok, the economy seats are a bit cramped but the "whole thing" in terms of service, inflight entertainment FA attitude etc. was a very nice experience.

Rgds, Flyingfool


User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

I think that the main reason for KLM doing so well right now is Air France.

This proves that the merger was a good thing (at least so far) and that Air France has no reasons to abandon the KLM product on the short to medium term.



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineBlast From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

KL has spent years reforming, restructuring, putting cost-cutting and efficiency measures through. These measures yield beautiful results.
Also, AMS is a super airport.


User currently offline28thguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 9):
Your title is not correct, Air France "makes" more money than KLM, as making money is judged on revenue. KLM's individual profits are higher though than AF.

Actually, "making money" refers to income, not revenue, in business terminology. Poster's title was correct.

I also will say that I think there are too many "corrections" going on around here.


User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

People just love KLM. I'm half greek, and everyone in my extended family know and want to fly KLM when doing the YYZ-ATH. Planes in the summer are always PACKED, and one must book well in advance.

Maybe it's the blue colour, maybe it's that they've been there forever (or so it seems), and of course, AMS is one damn good airport!

Either way, Love'em myself  Smile


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet? Being an older aircraft this would add significant maintenance costs so KLM should consider CRJ's or ERJ.

If AF wants to improve their balance sheet they should retire their remaining 747-200SUDs. If KL did why haven't they followed?  confused 



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):
Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet? Being an older aircraft this would add significant maintenance costs so KLM should consider CRJ's or ERJ.

Last time I was in AMS (March 2006) the Fokkers were still going strong, I dont think they will retire them anytime soon, but of course I have nothing to base that on


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5049 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):


KLM should consider CRJ's or ERJ.

Those types have seen thier heyday. The costs are hideous and if they replace the Fokkers it will be with a similar sized aircraft (E-190 anyone?) not smaller frames.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineMindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 11):
think that the main reason for KLM doing so well right now is Air France.

Agree !


User currently offlineBA757 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2832 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):
Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet?

I thought that they had just got more?

Adam


User currently offlineBlast From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):
Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet?

No, and they will not be replaced any time soon either! In fact, KL has been looking to purchase more of them during the past few years, especially the Fokker 70.


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