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DL To Announce More JFK Service; Improving Revenue  
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16003 times:

Excerpts from Aviation Daily 6/16

Delta next week plans to unveil a new round of New York Kennedy international expansion plans, The DAILY has learned, partly because of strong results from new flights started this summer.

He added that bookings for the rest of the summer are "well beyond" expectations, giving the carrier enough confidence to add more JFK service. "We're not done yet," Whitehurst said.
In 2004, Delta's adjusted RASM was 13 points below the industry average, but Whitehurst said the carrier closed the gap to seven points in April. The carrier's internal goal is to close the gap to six points, but Whitehurst believes it will beat that target.

246 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGoBlue From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15999 times:

Here's hoping that they announce some decent services from JFK, and put people on mainline jets to bigger destinations, and not regionals.

Jason


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15954 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Delta next week plans to unveil a new round of New York Kennedy international expansion plans, The DAILY has learned, partly because of strong results from new flights started this summer.



Quoting GoBlue (Reply 1):
Here's hoping that they announce some decent services from JFK, and put people on mainline jets to bigger destinations, and not regionals.

Kind of tough to fly an RJ to Europe, S.A., or the Carribbean (the presumed INTERNATIONAL expansion plans)...


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15929 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 2):
Kind of tough to fly an RJ to Europe, S.A., or the Carribbean (the presumed INTERNATIONAL expansion plans)...

Unless there are more 764s planned to come online into int'l configuration...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15929 times:

Are we talking domestic short haul or international long haul flights for the new expansion?


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15898 times:

Could it be plans for using the ETOPS certified ex-AA 757's...??

[Edited 2006-06-16 16:00:50]


- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15898 times:

Quoting GoBlue (Reply 1):
Here's hoping that they announce some decent services from JFK,

B6 announces E190 flights to BNA and IAD and it's the second coming...

DL announces services from JFK to Budapest, Dublin/Shannon, Kiev, Manchester, and Sao Paulo, on top of the international services they already have, and you hope for something decent?!? Sheesh...some people are hard to please!

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 2):
Kind of tough to fly an RJ to Europe, S.A., or the Carribbean

Yeah, but perfect for services back to the place of their manufacture.  Smile


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15898 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 2):
Kind of tough to fly an RJ to Europe, S.A., or the Carribbean (the presumed INTERNATIONAL expansion plans)...

But well within reach of 738s, 757s, or even the non-ER 763s  Wink .
Perhaps some more Canadian destinations might be on the books as well, e.g. YHZ, YVR, or YYC. Will certainly be interesting to see what routes will come of this.


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15801 times:

It looks like DL already has a lot of announced routes. Shouldn't they let those services start before going forward. And, more importantly, where else is there to fly out of JFK? I doubt service to DFW, DEN, PHX, etc. would work. They've tried it in the past and it has failed to work.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineIH8B6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 208 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15801 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 6):
B6 announces E190 flights to BNA and IAD and it's the second coming...DL announces services from JFK to Budapest, Dublin/Shannon, Kiev, Manchester, and Sao Paulo, on top of the international services they already have, and you hope for something decent?!? Sheesh...some people are hard to please!

Of course it is because B6 is the bestest airline in the whole world. I wet my pants everytime Neelman farts and I am always so excited when they announce a new destination. I didn't leave the house or eat the other day when they said they were selling planes...it was sad.
:-(

Welcome to my resepected users list LawnDart!

[Edited 2006-06-16 16:16:05]


Over-moderation sucks
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15729 times:
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Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
Will certainly be interesting to see what routes will come of this.

The article mentioned new services starting in the fall/winter so I would hazard a guess that the focus will be on Latin America/Carribbean and other warm-weather destinations/services. The only TATL fathomable would be JFK-TLV with the 763ER...unless they plan on exploring Africa further...


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15729 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
Are we talking domestic short haul or international long haul flights for the new expansion?

Per an unamed Delta Airlines Sales Rep -

Domestic

SMF (738)- Originally announced in 2002: B6 Route

ONT (738): B6 Route

SJC (738): B6 Route

PDX (738): B6 Route
*Previously flown by Delta Airlines*

PHX (738): B6 Route
*Previously flown by Delta Airlines*

SRQ (M88): B6 Route
*Weekends Only*

DEN (E70): B6 Route

AUS (E70): B6 Route

BGR (DH8)

BHM (CRJ)

JAN (CRJ)

MSY (CRJ): B6 Route

MCI (CRJ)

HNL (764)


International

YVR (738): AC, CX, HQ Route

AUA (738): AA Route
*Weekends Only*

POS (738): BW Route
*Weekends Only*

CUR (738)
*Weekends Only*

BGI (757): AA/BW Route
*Weekends Only*

LGW (763)

GLA (763)

VIE (763): OS Route
*Previously flown by Delta Airlines*

LIM (757): LA Route

PEK(772): CA Route
*The JFK build up will greatly help the application this time around*


User currently offlineTL8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15705 times:

Many of the domestic routes that did not work before may work much better now because even Delta is starting to refer to JFK as a hub. You can now fly from Buffalo to JFK and catch a connection to the West Coast...That did not exist until June 8th. Of course that is in addition to catching International Flights....

User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15625 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
SRQ (M88): B6 Route
*Weekends Only*

Not a B6 route (yet). Maybe you're thinking of JAX?

Anyway, if those routes are what are going to be announced (and it looks very likely), this should pose a very interesting war between DL and B6.

DL has flown JFK-PDX, PHX and DEN in the past - before B6 destroyed the yields. I don't see how it's going to work this time. Also, JFK-ONT is a very thin route. AA tried it out once but only stayed for like 3 months. This isn't even that great of a performer for B6, so I don't see how it's going to be able to support 2 airlines.

I think MSY was announced in 2001 but was quickly cancelled right after 9/11.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
AUA (738): AA Route
*Weekends Only*

I think AUA is already flown on Saturdays (with Song metal).

Anyway, this will be interesting. I certainly give DL credit for showing that it is committed to its JFK operations. Service has always been a bit unstable in the past, but hopefully DL can make it work this time.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15573 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
DL has flown JFK-PDX, PHX and DEN in the past - before B6 destroyed the yields. I don't see how it's going to work this time. Also, JFK-ONT is a very thin route. AA tried it out once but only stayed for like 3 months. This isn't even that great of a performer for B6, so I don't see how it's going to be able to support 2 airlines.

As for B6 destroying the yields, other airlines are able to make $ off the routes and remember, DL isn't the same DL they were pre-bankruptcy.

It will be interesting none the less.

Either way, you have to give credit to Delta for re-committment to the huge O&D market that is NYC (JFK).



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineIH8B6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 208 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15555 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
Anyway, if those routes are what are going to be announced (and it looks very likely), this should pose a very interesting war between DL and B6.

DL has flown JFK-PDX, PHX and DEN in the past - before B6 destroyed the yields. I don't see how it's going to work this time.

I'll tell you how it's going to work: JetPoo destroyed the yields back when they could. Now that payroll and fuel has gone up, they too have had to raise prices, while complaining "if eveyone would raise their prices it would be easier for us to do so." Screw that, JetPoo is part of the reason fares are so depressed and airlines are/were flying people coast-to-coast for less than they could drive a freakin' car!

Now, DL can destroy JetPoo's yield and let B6 taste some of that medicine…..yummy….mmmm good. I hope it's tastes good going down because it's no fun when it's coming out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 hissyfit 



Over-moderation sucks
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15555 times:
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Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
PEK(772): CA Route
*The JFK build up will greatly help the application this time around*

How's this even possible? Are they going to give up pursuing ATL-PEK as a first priority? If not, JFK-China will have to wait, and wait, etc.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15500 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 16):
How's this even possible? Are they going to give up pursuing ATL-PEK as a first priority? If not, JFK-China will have to wait, and wait, etc.

Latest rumors are that the application will be from JFK-CHINA vs. ATL...who knows tho



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6763 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15500 times:

Any equipment upgrades gonna happen or just new destinations added? i would be interested to see the final total when this is all over and done with.. shall be interesting...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15500 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
DL has flown JFK-PDX, PHX and DEN in the past - before B6 destroyed the yields.

DL flew the JFK-PHX-JFK route with 763's then to 752's then eventually disscontinuted it due to competition from AA starting the route also. Then AA dropped the route, then B6 came along quite a bit later. Talking to the DL agents in PHX they said the JFK flight actually performed well with HIGH loads however the yeilds were low so DL axed the route. There was talk of them switching to SONG but it never happened. Maybe now DL could restart this route with the "old" SONG 757's and see what happens? Who knows



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15475 times:

Delta at 5% below industry adjusted RASM will have the highest profit margins in the industry. The other legacies are not even in the ballpark when it you look at adjusted CASM.

This May report is really going to be fun.


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15430 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 14):
Either way, you have to give credit to Delta for re-committment to the huge O&D market that is NYC (JFK).

I did  Wink

I think it's great that more jobs will be created for NY'ers and the state will be taking in more tax money. As someone who lives here, any news of increased business is good news.

Quoting IH8B6 (Reply 15):
Now, DL can destroy JetPoo's yield and let B6 taste some of that medicine…..yummy….mmmm good. I hope it's tastes good going down because it's no fun when it's coming out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While ignoring your immaturity, I will comment that if DL attempts to "destroy" B6's yields, DL will also destroy its own yields in the process. At this point, it's up to all U.S airlines to cooperate (to an extent) in raising average fares and returning the industry to profitability.

I honestly don't think DL is stupid enough to undercut B6's fares.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15393 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21):
DL will also destroy its own yields in the process. At this point, it's up to all U.S airlines to cooperate (to an extent) in raising average fares and returning the industry to profitability.

Domestic routes out of JFK mean the World to Jetblue. For Delta that's really a small part of the pie. They have other hubs, other regions, International service.

If these rumored routes are true. That's going to be a big blow to Jetblue revenue.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15393 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
AUS (E70): B6 Route

DL already flies JFK-AUS.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
AUA (738): AA Route
*Weekends Only*

DL already flies JFK-AUA (saturday only).


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15351 times:
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Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21):
I honestly don't think DL is stupid enough to undercut B6's fares.

Agreed. DL has been raising fares like nobody's business in the past few months. As the Aviation Daily article pointed out, DL's focus is "revenue, revenue, revenue" at this point.....


25 Post contains images UN_B732 : I find those rumors interesting, namely JFK-VIE; which I think could work. Someone needs to tell DL to fly JFK-BEG or JFK-LED -Mr. X
26 JetBluefan1 : That is certainly true. However, B6 is starting to move away from long-haul flying and is adding more short- and long-haul flying, such as JFK-BNA an
27 Dartland : Actually, maybe not. Methinks that B6's sudden turn from profitability is a HUGE boon for DL, as B6 had to raise fares, and suddenly DL can compete!
28 ArtieFufkin : But Dartland these Jetblue Transcon markets have been just marginal for them. In most cases they were the sole carrier on the route. Now Delta adds a
29 Panamair : It's not just to Europe, but with the overall expansion, there are many domestic connections that are now enabled through JFK - e.g., from BUF to SAN
30 IH8B6 : No immaturity my friend, just loathing. Of course it's up to airlines to cooperate....to charge what it costs to do business. It too bad JetBlue (bet
31 FlyPNS1 : The key phrase is "have been" as you are talking about the past. With fares rising quite rapidly, it is possible that some of these routes are now or
32 ArtieFufkin : It's not just Jetblue that has to worry here. CO Executives are starting to bitch and moan about Delta's expansion. Listen to a CO investor presentati
33 DAL767400ER : While they were not under the rumored routes, I could see LED working, as it would fit in along with DL's Eastern Europe focus, evidenced by JFK-KPB/
34 FlyPNS1 : I can't blame them. Having DL dump a ton of capacity and trash yields isn't helpful. True, but DL has struggled with RJ's from JFK to the Southeast..
35 JGPH1A : Hidden amongst that long list of routes is an interesting one = JFK-LGW. A foray into NYC-LON - has DL done this route before ?
36 MalpensaSFO : My error the route was actually SAT..
37 Panamair : No, just BOS-LGW with the 763ER.
38 MSYtristar : Well, DL has dropped to #4 in market share in MSY, behind WN, CO, and AA. DL used to be a solid #2 (at worst #3) before Katrina, but due to massive c
39 MalpensaSFO : Ah the good old days with: 767 MSY-LAS 752 MSY-DFW 752 MSY-LAX 767 MSY-ATL
40 DAL767400ER : Add 767 MSY-SLC to that. Which DL already operated not too long ago with E70s, but discontinued it for whatever reasons. Hm, could have sworn that I'
41 RL757PVD : Well for years, EWR was the most conventient airport to Manhattan, but now that JFK has the air train to the LIRR, its equally as convenient as EWR.
42 ArtieFufkin : I think CO is more concerned that they will not be the exclusive 1 stop connecting service to a slew of European destinations. ROC/SYR/CMH etc. All th
43 RL757PVD : Thats my point, up until a few years ago, for Manhattan, it was EWR, now JFK is just as accessible with less delays,and has rapidly improving service
44 Post contains images TOLtommy : I heard Bombardier was about to annouce that they perfected drop tanks for the CRJ....
45 Alitalia744 : with these additional potential destinations, anyone know what the full list from JFK looks like now?
46 Tsnamm : Plus 5 million+ people in Brooklyn,queens and Nassau County...
47 MalpensaSFO : Oh Dear... All of the people in New Jersey will be ranting and raving to this one about Newark being the only international airport in the area to ha
48 Incitatus : Dear I-hate-Jet-Blue: I admit enjoying your bluntness. This forum has grown too sanitized. The trouble for Delta is that destroying JetBlue's yields
49 Dartland : Exactly. That's what I mean, Artie -- I think fares have gone up for both so there is room for both to make money. I don't think DL plans to destroy
50 PeachAir : IH8B6, welcome to respected users list!
51 ArtieFufkin : Delta does have a strong NYC FF base. Thank the Shuttle and to a lesser extent PBI/FLL routes for this. All the big media, financial, consulting compa
52 Alitalia744 : I recall reading that the greatest population area of Medallion members are as follows: 1) ATL 2) Florida 3) NYC... So there's truth to that.
53 HB-IWC : I thought DL only ever operated VIE from ATL, but I could be wrong. During the days of the OS/SR/SN - DL code shares, OS took care of JFK and DL flew
54 Gokmengs : All I have to say it would be wonderful to have some non stop transcontinental service(with first class) to destinations like LAS-SFO-LAX, etc.
55 1337Delta764 : What are the chances of JFK surpassing SLC as the #3 hub?
56 Cslusarc : I think it is very high. I'm sure that the metro NYC area can support about 4-5 airlines with hubs or large focus cities at the area's airports. (CO,
57 RL757PVD : The biggest thing is the terminal upgrade, If only they had kept the JFK term plan and dropped BOS rather than the other way around.... With a new te
58 ANNOYEDFA : Jetbluefan1: You honestly don't think DL will undercut B6's fair's? I hate to burst your bubble but B6 isn't under cutting anyone's fair's lately espe
59 Exusair : The 777 pilots are receiving literature regarding service to BOM. JFK-BOM on November 1st. LIM is a real possibility as ATL-LIM goes out heavy with pa
60 Post contains images DAL767400ER : So, what would you call those ex-Song 757s with the First Class added back ?
61 RL757PVD : Damn, can they stretch their 777 fleet ANY further? 8 777's ATL-NRT ATL-TLV ATL-JNB JFK-BOM That essentially means no DL 777s to Europe.
62 Post contains images STT757 : 8 Million + in Northern New Jersey, with the highest household incomes in the whole Country. You mean Staten Island .
63 RwSEA : It would be nice to see DL bring back service to PDX, preferrably a daytime flight connecting to the International bank. I think the 738 is a more app
64 Slider : Yes it will be. I think CO's concern isn't against competing with DL, per se, it's that DL has ramped up so much and with such large gauge that they'
65 JetBluefan1 : It is true that B6 has a RASM premium over DL on all routes out of JFK and most routes out of BOS. However, while B6 is asking for $179 to SJC, does
66 STT757 : DL is going to be in for a shock this Winter, flying 767-300s to Kiev and Budapest might work in the Summer but the Winter is what kills. CO with thei
67 ArtieFufkin : But Delta can operate in a lower RASM enviroment than CO can. CO will see their RASM go down for sure. This is basically what they don't like. Not say
68 Airzim : Slider, Right on the nose!
69 Alitalia744 : You were quick to write-off DL a few months ago...glass house?
70 DptMAN : I hear DLs MAN service is doing quiet well. Any chance of a 2nd daily flight, then there will be double daily DL to JFK, CO to EWR and daily to JFK on
71 ArtieFufkin : You're going to be in shock, once Delta's costs become apparent. Then reality will have truley set in. That those with the low cost go when and where
72 Cslusarc : JFK-BOM seems like a good route. With the 772ER is must be flown with a stop. I wonder if the CDG stop continues to offer good value for the airline.
73 Wjcandee : This seems nuts. Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays, the largest packager to Hawaii, (using an ATA L1011-500) couldn't make this work out of JFK a few years
74 Post contains images Positiverate : Wrong. DL does NOT want to fly this route out of JFK. They want to do it out of ATL. The JFK expansion has nothing to do with that application. Wrong
75 AirMailer : Don't hold back IH8B6, tell us how you really feel.
76 ArtieFufkin : I can't see it. There are just too many other routes where Delta could have the sole service in the market and/or higher yields. MAN gets more of the
77 RL757PVD : I never said JFK was, i said for years EWR was the only one with a good transit connection and had it hands down, recently thats changed and its more
78 Slider : Precisely right. And TXL is ground zero for the 2 divergent approaches. DL will have problems filling that 763 up, they'll slash and burn, CO will lo
79 RwSEA : This route seemed to perform all right last Winter. It's still here this year ... Where is JFL?
80 Post contains images Positiverate : Actually, Page 5 and 6 of the DOT "Show Cause" report entitled "2005/2006 U.S.-CHINA AIR SERVICES CASE AND DESIGNATIONS (Docket OST-2004-19077)" read
81 Positiverate : Keep in mind DL's May profits will be down because of all the people booking away when the pilots threatened to strike.
82 ArtieFufkin : Slider you seem real up on this route. Delta and Continetal started this service about a Year ago. They've already done a full Winter schedule. So no
83 ArtieFufkin : Let's just look at TXL. Delta carries palatalized freight. The have more than double the amount of Business Class seats. The 767-300 cost about 20% mo
84 Dartland : Apparently you missed Artie's quote that exemplifies the nuts and bolts of airline economics. Let me re-quote it: Bingo! It remains to be seen if it
85 AirMailer : ... and that was nice to see. I have been reading posts on this board for about 4 months now, and while I don't keep close record of things like this
86 Panamair : Don't you think that DL already knows that they cannot sustain KBP and BUD during the winter at summer frequencies and has factored them into their p
87 ArtieFufkin : Oh and Slider. We had a fellow here that posted the load factors on this route and Delta did slightly better. Even in those frosty Winters. So you sti
88 AirMailer : Do you define Northern New Jersey as anything north of Atlantic City? According to the U.S. Census Bureau the entire state of New Jersey only has 8.7
89 DL Widget Head : I'm pretty sure JFK-BOM can be done N/S...it's coming back that the a/c would probably be weight restricted.
90 Wjcandee : I wasn't criticizing, although I see how it could be read that way. Wasn't meant that way.
91 Positiverate : As I recall, KBP, even in the summer, isn't daily. Or am I wrong?
92 HVNandrew : I think JFK will end up as the #3, or even #2, DL hub in the next five years. But SLC won't be the first hub JFK will pass. IMO, CVG is going to sink
93 RwSEA : You're right - KPB and BUD are both only 5x weekly. However, I think there might have been some rumors that BUD was going to daily in August for abou
94 HVNandrew : I'd love to see DL get into the Middle East with a JFK-DXB flight.
95 ArtieFufkin : It is not daily. But Delta will not be able to sustain this in Winter. So say the detractors...LOL You see. When Delta started KBP they had no earthly
96 AirMailer : CO has 58 757s. DL has 121 757s, and is rumored to be interested in acquiring 19 more from AA's ex-TWA fleet that is being retired. DL could just as
97 STT757 : Berlin is neither a industrial or argricultural center, it's a political capital. Not alot of Cargo generated by the Reichstag. The reason why CO 757
98 Panamair : You're right; KBP is only 5x weekly during the summer. So far the December schedule shows it operating 4x weekly. JFK-BUD is currently 5x weekly but
99 CXA330300 : Welcome to my respected users list. Any bets on JFK-TLV/DXB/CAI?
100 ArtieFufkin : Slider did you slide on over to the Form 441 data and check it out for yourself? Fess up. You laid a egg.
101 Post contains links ArtieFufkin : Quoting STT757 (Reply 97): Berlin is neither a industrial or argricultural center, it's a political capital. Not alot of Cargo generated by the Reichs
102 Panamair : Unfortunately, EK's 3 daily DXB-JFK flights (2 nonstop, 1 one-stop via HAM starting this winter) are going to be a real deterrent....
103 RwSEA : I agree, however I don't think the 763 can make the route without a stop. EK will have to serve the route for the time being. Good point. People also
104 Alitalia744 : The ex-TWA 757s may be the only hope for that right now as they're ETOPS birds. Most of DL's current 757 fleet is not equipped for ETOPS at the momen
105 AirMailer : The book-away for International spanned April and most of May, however the book-away for Domestic affected April much more that it did May; so I son'
106 Post contains images Slider : 20% more passengers on a market that has never historically been able to support that kind of capacity. That's a 20% liability if you can't fill them
107 Fewsolarge : I think that would be quite a way down the list. Even just within Eastern Europe, WAW, PRG and VIE would justify flights much sooner. Sounds like ran
108 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Those darts are not thrown... They are inked... That is what the LGW route is hinging on. Delta wants to fly ATL-JFK-PEK via the 777... That was year
109 AirMailer : By everyone you are referring to 100 or so executives at other airlines that were bilking their customers for decades? I highly doubht that you could
110 B777ER : About bloody time. Ok, some of you sked wizards out there figure this out. IF DL gets these two routes, how in the world are they going to do it with
111 MalpensaSFO : ATL-DKR-JNB may very well be a 767-300ER Not a chance, DL is doing fine with their current service to BOM.
112 Panamair : ATL-DKR-JNB may be going 763ER instead. The reservations section on delta.com lists the flight as a 763ER but everywhere else (seat map, flight sched
113 Alitalia744 : ATL-JNB is going to stay 777. DL.com has an error.
114 DL Widget Head : ...and if a bull frog had wings he'd fly instead of bump his arse... CO owns the world?? DL or whoever can't decide to start flying to a city without
115 DL787932ER : DL still has five firm orders for 772ERs, with 2 to be delivered in 2008 and 3 in 2009. They won't get PEK authority before 2008, by which time they'
116 Slider : So as long as the traveling public is happy with an irrational decision that bled yield and contributed to most of the majors being unprofitable that
117 MalpensaSFO : Well Amadeus has the same information... DL 034 J9 D9 I9 Y9 B9 M9 H9 /ATL S JNB A 355P 445P+1E1/767
118 WorldTraveler : You won't see any cities to Europe announced now to begin in the winter.... I also don't think you will see any transcon flights announced now.... the
119 Exusair : There are 2 777 slots in 2007 that DL will exercise. Rumor is that these will be LR's. 777 service will be discontinued to Europe. The 8 767-400's wil
120 JetBluefan1 : I never wrote DL off. I simply questioned how they would manage to make JFK a success with all those RJ's flying to BUF and CLE with low yields (than
121 Wjcandee : How much does another THREE HOURS of fuel cost again? (And crew, and aircraft utilization?) How many biz class (company paid-for, business) travelers
122 Dartland : What industry are you working in? If you think the airline industry makes economical sense, then you are dellusional. The industry has not returned i
123 Dl757md : The words "at the moment" are an important part of your statement. Our 757s could be converted to ETOPS just as our domestic 763ERs are being convert
124 Wjcandee : Not necessarily disagreeing...but...until pretty recently there were quite a few 767s from NYC-ATL and from ATL to places like MCO, FLL, etc. Is it b
125 Gigneil : No, they do not. They want to fly nonstop ATL-PEK, and their 777s are more than adequate to the task. N
126 Dl757md : I don't know either. Either way the A/C is going to be flown about the same number of hours. So you have to look at operating costs. Does it cost les
127 DLAgent : Obviously with their intent to sell 5 A-320's. Transcons will be cut and also a city two will probably be axed.
128 DL Widget Head : Simplifares is not just low priced fares. It's very name defines it as being simpler for the customer, less hassle, less restrictions, less complicat
129 RuEwrAcBuff : Hopefully DL will make an investment in their JFK terminals in tandem with their expansion. They're in a sad state. I was just at JFK and with all the
130 DL Widget Head : They are. Can't afford a new terminal right now but money is being or will be spent shortly on refurbishment.
131 WorldTraveler : the answer is to have places to fly the aircraft in the winter that make sense. thus, S. America, Africa, and Tel Aviv. In fact, most ethnic markets
132 DL Widget Head : In fact, don't they or didn't they have a policy of booking for a 762 but if it looks like that can garner enough traffic for a certain flight, they
133 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : I am all for DL international service and I support it heavily. Though I do wish prices would be lower it is still great. I hope for some mid east fli
134 AirMailer : If you are talking about retirements in the last 8 months, I am pretty sure that DL has only retired 30 or so 737 classics so far, and will retire an
135 WorldTraveler : My figure goes back several years....DL's 737 classic fleet peaked at about 75 aircraft. There were 15 767-200s that were retired for a total of about
136 A330323X : US isn't flying LGA-BDA at all this year. But during the summers they did fly it, which was for around 15 years, it was a daily route, not a weekend
137 Wjcandee : Correct. That's why I said "used to get". When B6 came in, US dumped it from LGA. BDA is close enough to LGA to be inside the perimeter, so they coul
138 AirMailer : No offense intended JetBluefan1... but airlines like FL have found that loyalty is only good for about $20. If both DL and B6 are charging $195 for J
139 AirMailer : I think that you defeated your own argument inside of the same paragraph. (Unless you are saying that DL's route structure can support the 67s across
140 A330323X : I wasn't correcting you, I was correcting MalpensaSFO. Oh, and US dropping LGA-BDA had nothing to do with B6, the route lost a little bit of money la
141 Post contains images AirMailer : -- EDIT: misquote. You're right!! I forgot!! DL now has a fare structure very similar to WN; and just look how much money that WN has lost over the la
142 Dl757md : I was basing my statements on the premise by others that DL wouldn't be able maintain route profitability with 767 trans-Atlantic over the winter. Bu
143 AirMailer : Point taken, and agreed... unless of course: You are taking the aircraft off of soft routes during the low season to reduce frequency, and put them o
144 AirMailer : For the record my young friend... (I'm young too.) I wasn't drooling, I was chuckling! (Can't vouch for anyone else though.)
145 Wjcandee : Well THAT sucks. I took it several times and it was friggin' *great*!!! Easy to the airport, easy onto the plane, off the plane, through customs, etc
146 Dl757md : Neither of which were points that I was trying to refute. My comments were made regarding pulling 67 from intl to domestic and pulling 57s from domes
147 Positiverate : Thus proving my point. It's not daily now..in the summer months. It certainly won't be daily in the winter months. How about throwing in the CAI stop
148 Eyeonthesky17 : Finally..... Slider, I cannot agree with you more. The JFK International expansion has been completely irrational and into very low yield makets (KBP
149 Positiverate : I'll keep saying this until I am blue in the face. KBP and BUD do NOT...again do NOT...operate daily in the summer. Odds are that the frequency will
150 SESGDL : Oh please. So an airline with numerous people researching routes for a while I'm sure are suddenly going to be shown the light by some random person
151 HnlBoi : I would love to see a JFK-HNL direct flight. Not that becuase im from HNL but im very sure they would be able to pick up alot of connecting passengers
152 Avatordon : Regardless of where DL flies in their expansion, I have real concerns about the facilities - not so much the appearance but the real estate - that is,
153 JetBluefan1 : That's a very good scenario and is similar to what is going on now on NE-Florida runs, though it is a fact that B6 does have higher PRASM. In any cas
154 ArtieFufkin : I was looking at what US Airways has done this Year on the International side and they've reduced quite a bit. They've dropped 25% of what Delta has g
155 Skip17 : Because you seem to know whats going on, what are the chances/when could DL flights heading of the atlantic from SLC nonstop? It seems overdue to me.
156 JGPH1A : At first glance it probably - demand to India is huge and fares are high. They're kidding, right ? 14 hours on a DL 763 ? That'd be enough to kill an
157 Panamair : Believe it or not, lots of people fly in Economy on a DL 763 from the US all the way to MAA and BOM! Imagine that! And I think they actually walked o
158 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Heck, those things can kill you after a 1-hour flight from HAM .
159 Post contains links STT757 : Continued at.. http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-08302005-534522.html
160 RandyWaldron : Not if they're still in American's fleet? What a stupid question. AA hasn't even gotten rid of those aircrafts yet.........never going to happen. Per
161 FlyPNS1 : Those cuts are purely in Latin America (US is actually growing on the transatlantic side). And most of the Latin America cuts are from FLL where DL w
162 LN-MOW : No? Courtesy of USA Today: AA to ditch some of its 757s Today_aa_3American Airlines plans to shed 19 Boeing 757s from its fleet as the leases for tho
163 MalpensaSFO : Well if the chatter is true, and it looks like it is Delta is going to bombard Europe at the cost if Continental. Long talked about routes such as: BO
164 WorldTraveler : what is the MTOW on the ex-TW/now AA 757s? SLC-Europe is possible but I am betting DL will build out LAX internationally first or at least at the same
165 Gokmengs : I would have liked that and have been waiting after the song announcement, but I don't know which routes they will utilize the ac with First class. N
166 Positiverate : It all depends on EU/US Open Skies. Once LHR gets into the mix for DL, they can free up LGW slots for SLC (which is what they want to do). I'm not su
167 B777ER : Dare I say or even think that before 2010, DL will be in DXB? Not quite. They route to TLV via ATL.
168 Zone1 : I think it is very likely that they will try DXB again. Although, if they really want those China slots they need to fly to other cities in Asia to s
169 JGPH1A : Those poor people have my deepest sympathy ! Seriously, DL's longhaul Y product on the 763 is just poor. It was never very good, and now that the pla
170 STT757 : DL's own history at JFK speaks volumes, start a route, drop a route etc..
171 ArtieFufkin : Delta brings in 57% of the revenue that AF/KL does but produces 94% of their total RPMs. Of course AF operates freighter service so that is distorts t
172 JGPH1A : That's why I fly DL - not a lot of choice direct to the US from NCE, and they are competitive on price (not always cheapest though).
173 Avatordon : Not wanting to start a flame here, but one small route I think would work for DL (at least express) would be JFK-ELM. A huge company (Corning) is base
174 RJpieces : You're so full of it...Delta launching a JFK expansion will not make it profitable and will NEVER, EVER compare to CO's EWR operation. This coming fr
175 ArtieFufkin : Well let's just look how awesome CO's numbers will be this Quarter. The consensus is that they will earn $114 Mil, a 3.4% margin. For Delta to earn a
176 RwSEA : Why is that? Theoretically, say that DL eventually builds JFK into something similar in size and depth as CO's EWR operation (obviously they'd need a
177 WorldTraveler : Posit.., be nice to Malpensa. He was one of DL's greatest critics just a month or two ago.... we're glad he's seeing like so many people that DL reall
178 Cslusarc : I don't think BDL-LGW is a permitted route under Bremuda II. Can anyone correct me on this? If DL wanted to fly to the London Area they would hae to f
179 JGPH1A : Anywhere-LGW is permitted under Bermuda 2 - only LHR is restricted IIRC.
180 Positiverate : Correct. But you need a slot at LGW as I understand it.
181 LO231 : Are you for real??? Who in the face of earth would choose Delta if they were more expensive than their European counterparts? Of course people fly it
182 WorldTraveler : all of your antecdotes about who flies DL doesn't square with the info it and other carriers submit to the DOT; DL gets comparable revenue on comparab
183 Panamair : I think that most DL people will agree that DL's international Y product needs a facelift (COO Whitehurst calls it "tired"). Some improvements are co
184 JGPH1A : Good for DL - at least they recognise there's a problem, which is a start. I personally don't care much for the new interior, at least what I've seen
185 LO231 : I call it dark ages. And I've flown LO WAW-ORD.... I'd think a carrier of that reputation as DL would impress me a little... Which LO did in fact.. A
186 WorldTraveler : DL will have PTV on the 764s which will become the backbone of DL's TATL fleet to competitive cities. The 763s will increasingly be used for less comp
187 Post contains images IH8B6 : First off all, that is great that you admit to being younger than most people on this board. Some younger people on this board try act like they are
188 DLBOIFIN : What about any DL service to HEL? I think ATL-HEL would do pretty well as the Finnish market is pretty much underserved from/to the USA. At the moment
189 HVNandrew : It would be about time. I guess the new ASA base is a start.
190 FlyMIA : The market is well served because it is very small. If Delta were to re-enter Helsinki, which is very doubtful, it would be from JFK, most likely. Tr
191 ArtieFufkin : I'd think Nokia would provide a good base of revenue for that flight.
192 WorldTraveler : ASA has a new base at LAX? Hmmm... Scandanavia does provide some possibilities since DL has served almost all of them in the past. The real key in DL
193 DL Widget Head : I don't think HEL will be served any time soon by DL at least not with a 767 initially.
194 Airzim : OK rocket scientist? If AY losese money in New York how the hell is DL going to make money? Secondly you all seem to be forgetting that JFK is tapped
195 DL Widget Head : I wasn't aware that JFK was slot restricted?!?
196 JetBluefan1 : Not throughout the whole day. Just 3pm-8pm, which is the very busy international departures/arrivals period. JetBluefan1
197 Dl757md : I know that ASA is closing the SLC base and moving everybody who wants to go to ATL but I have not heard about them opening LAX. It seems to go again
198 LN-MOW : Nokia is based in Oulu, not HEL. I'd guess they just as much fly via ARN when they go to the US.
199 WorldTraveler : I believe JFK slot controls are ending within a year or two so slots will not be an issue but facility capacity will be for DL - but at some point wel
200 ArtieFufkin : Are you sure WT? Mugabe's Minister of Aviation says we can't start anymore flights out of JFK...LOL
201 DTWAGENT : Questions....???? Is DL still flying JFK-SAN-SAN?????? I know they where at one time.... chuck
202 DL4EVR : Wow...we finally agree on something!
203 WorldTraveler : he's grasping at straws now. 1st he said DL would liquidate, then he said their plans were foolish and would fail, and now he says they can't do any
204 IH8B6 : Once a day.....I think in the evening.
205 Post contains images MastaHanky : Are you allowed to buy tickets for the SAN-SAN segment?
206 Post contains images IH8B6 : ha ha ha...no that is a special! JFK-SAN-touch and go-SAN. Two approaches for the price of one!!
207 DeltaSFO : The majority of what's on this thread is the usual a.net crap which isn't even worth addressing. There are two comments that caught my eye, however. "
208 DAL767400ER : I guess what HVNandrew is referring to was DL/ASAs application for the 9 new LAX-Mexico routes a few weeks ago.
209 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : No, I was given information by a Delta Sales Rep, as well as at a recent trade show in New York City.. Why does it not make sense. Delta, is trying t
210 Dl757md : We ain't using 57s over the Atlantic! If we wanted to we'd be converting the Song 57s to ETOPs international birds instead of back to domestic mainli
211 MalpensaSFO : Well that is the most educated and thought out response ever to be on Airliners!
212 Post contains images Dl757md : Wudja expec. I am from Geooorga. Gotta a Delta widget tatooed on one cheek ana union jack on th'other. Seriously though I was just saying it in the l
213 MalpensaSFO : Take it easy... it was a joke... Born in Richmond Hill myself... LOL.... So in other words the Delta Airlines Sales Reps are saying all of that just
214 Dl757md : Who do you mean by Delta Sales Reps? They are saying specifically we are going to fly 757s to Europe? There is nothing loaded in the schedule at this
215 Airzim : Point out anywhere where I said DL will or should liquidate. You can't refute the ramp constraints at JFK because they're real. They're affecting B6
216 RJpieces : BEST post I've seen on A.net in MONTHS!!!! Very well written.
217 MalpensaSFO : LOL.... Good one Air Zim... Soho isnt the UES, never will be... Demorgaphics just dont match! You can with bi state of mind.. What I have heard is th
218 RJpieces : Because CO is across the river and EWR has the perfect mix of traffic that makes a hub successful. Delta will never be able to replicate that at JFK.
219 DAL767400ER : You know, IMO, Hawaii flights are one the main reason we'll see ETOPS 757s at DL soon, regardless of Flights to Europe. That way, DL could free up mo
220 DLBOIFIN : I disagree! Let's compare the Nordic markets: Oslo: 0,7 Million inhabitants Service to USA: CO daily to EWR, 757 Copenhagen: 1,6 Million inhabitants
221 CALMSP : I'm going to have to side with DL757MD...............typically from what I have seen/heard.........the tech ops/fleet managers are going to know of an
222 ArtieFufkin : That could go either way. It is the Marketing Dept that decides where to fly. It just depends on who knows who and who is able to keep a secret. DL's
223 ArtieFufkin : A rant. Devoid of any facts refuting the the subject of this thread. I'll repeat. All from Delta Mgt. JFK bookings are doing better than expected. So
224 RJpieces : With all due respect, you did not respond to one of Slider's points and furthermore your posts do not add anything to the discussion at hand.
225 ArtieFufkin : What's his point? He brings up TXL. Embarrasses himself. Goes on rant about simpli fares and Song....LOL Give me something to work with? What the hell
226 Humberside : I agree BDL-CDG could work with their large presense in BDL and CDG being their partner's AF hub I thought DL wouldnt expand internationally from BOS
227 WorldTraveler : The real message behind this thread is not whether DL will use 757s or not across the Atlantic but that DL has successfully redeployed 8 767-300ERs pl
228 Connector4you : Bizarre move from Delta to start service out of Budapest and Kiev, markets already served by Malev and Aerosvit. Romania would have been a better sta
229 UN_B732 : kbp is not served very much by VV and DL is blowing out the hosue on that route. I believe that it made perfect sense. -Mr. X
230 DeltaSFO : I don't think Delta plans to get the 767-332s recertified for higher MTOW. That is a very costly and time consuming mod, and probably not a good inves
231 Connector4you : Really . . . ? Aerosvit Airlines VV 131 Borispol (KBP), Kiev, Ukraine Terminal B 12:00 John F Kennedy Int'l (JFK), New York, New York, USA Terminal 4
232 Fewsolarge : Hungary was the first ex-Communist country to really start humming economically. Budapest is now an established business destination. Romania has bee
233 WorldTraveler : Ukraine was the 2nd largest Soviet state and is moving very much toward the west. KBP makes lots of sense which is why it is doing so well. DL has no
234 Dl757md : Not true. The last 763 with A2 engines as you suggested for upgrade is ship 139 delivered 05/08/92. DL757Md
235 DeltaSFO : That would be only four airframes--ships 1401-1404. It entails a lot more than swapping engines. Those a/c don't have the right fuel tanks, landing g
236 Post contains images B777ER : DeltaSFO, Are the pilots that are type-rated in the 763 also rated for the 764 or is that a seperate type-rating? I imagine if it is seperate, all tho
237 DL Widget Head : That is in the public domain. In fact, there was a news interview with Jim Whitehurst the other day and he mentioned that DL is in the final stages o
238 Positiverate : That's funny, because the DOT requirement for the 2007 designations, should they be moved up, is for service in a market that is NOT already served,
239 Centrair : I think DL will use this opportunity to build up money to help with getting out of BK, then try and get more widebodies to start a build up of LAX to
240 Connector4you : Maybe so for SkyTeam. Star and OneWorld are already connecting the Balkans trough Vienna and Budapest. So what's Delta doing in Budapest or Kiev with
241 JGPH1A : Access to LGW is not restricted by Bermuda 2. LGW is however slot-restricted generally, and it is difficult to find slots suitable to a transatlantic
242 WorldTraveler : LGW is most certainly a restricted access airport for US airlines – from both a slot and a market access issue. US airlines are not free to add LGW
243 Wjcandee : Who knew that this meant "strong results" for OTHER AIRLINES' new flights?!!! (Meaning JFK to ACC was a great coup and brave venture for NOA, which w
244 ArtieFufkin : Well I was sort of hoping for LOS to chap Continental. You saw how a few turbo props to upstate New York got them all in a tizzy..LOL But the thing ab
245 WorldTraveler : There is nothing to say this is the end of DL's Africa expansion. ACC and DKR are good starting points in west Africa. DL hasn't even flown to this pa
246 Shanderawx : Has Delta already discontinued the recently started SAT-JFK service? So soon? Why?
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