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BA And VS Merger.  
User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8378 times:

I've just been told off for VS bashing. SO, any ideas what the outcome of a fanciful merger between BA and VS would be ? Good or bad ?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8351 times:

It would never happen. Simple as that. SRB has too much of a detestation for BA, and the monopolies commission would possibly put a stop to it too.

User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8336 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
It would never happen. Simple as that. SRB has too much of a detestation for BA, and the monopolies commission would possibly put a stop to it too.

Well obviously it will never happen. My point was whether the outcome would be a successful airline?


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8303 times:

Quoting 74472 (Reply 2):
My point was whether the outcome would be a successful airline?

I don't think so. First, monoliths are seldom good. Then, their business cultures are so different that it would hardly work. And finally, it's going to become a virtual monopoly, which will lead to deterioration of service and rising of prices.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8266 times:

The chances of a merger between BA and VS are slim and none. If VS were to merge with another carrier, the odds favor it being BD (which has been long-rumored anyway). Even if it were to happen, it would probably be more along the lines of BA buying them to rid themselves of a competitor. Since both airlines have route networks that overlap quite a bit (Just about every VS route mirrors a BA route), this merger wouldn't really add much to BA's network.

User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8254 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
monoliths are seldom good

Pan Am was a monolith. They were fabulous. (if badly managed towards the end) I'd like to see a return to an era like that.

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
it's going to become a virtual monopoly, which will lead to deterioration of service and rising of prices.

But that's just my point? Would it ? Why shouldn't it be great for service. Imagine the costs they could take out.

Why send 12 three quarters full a/c from UK based airlines over the pond to JFK?

[Edited 2006-06-17 18:11:50]

User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8224 times:

Quoting 74472 (Reply 5):
Pan Am was a monolith. They were fabulous

You're obviously not one of the tens of thousands who were laid off when PA went bust in 1991. It was hardly fabulous for those people.

Quoting 74472 (Reply 5):
Why shouldn't it be great for service. Imagine the costs they could take out.

Because monopolies decrease competitiveness, it can be simply proven with supply and demand curves. The bigger your market share, the smaller your incentive for innovation. BA and VS are only as cool as they are today because they compete with each other.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8200 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 6):
Because monopolies decrease competitiveness, it can be simply proven with supply and demand curves. The bigger your market share, the smaller your incentive for innovation. BA and VS are only as cool as they are today because they compete with each other

Well then on that basis the alliances might aswell pack up and turn the lights off.

Quoting EHHO (Reply 6):
You're obviously not one of the tens of thousands who were laid off when PA went bust in 1991. It was hardly fabulous for those people

What are you saying? PA 'was' a fabulous airline. It must have been terrible for those people I agree but the reasons for the demise were not all at PA's door.


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8176 times:

Quoting 74472 (Reply 7):
the reasons for the demise were not all at PA's

OK, just do a search on these forums, or go to the wikipedia page for all the relevant information on their downturn. Anyway, believe me, their size was their vulnerability.

Quoting 74472 (Reply 7):
on that basis the alliances might aswell pack up

Alliances are totally not monopolistic: AF-KL compete like hell with AZ and SU and DL; DL and NW are very fierce competitors on the US market... What are you talking about?



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8163 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 8):
Alliances are totally not monopolistic: AF-KL compete like hell with AZ and SU and SA)">DL; SA)">DL and SA)">NW are very fierce competitors on the US market... What are you talking about?

Sorry, I wasn't aware that BA/VS don't compete with anyone else!!??!!

All I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense to have two airlines (registered to the same country) with almost identical (long-haul) networks (if with different frequencies)operating from the same region LET ALONE THE SAME AIRPORT.

Can you tell me at what other airport this is the case ?

[Edited 2006-06-17 18:33:12]

[Edited 2006-06-17 18:35:35]

User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8134 times:

Quoting 74472 (Reply 9):
Can you tell me at what other airport this is the case ?

ORD: UA and AA



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8121 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 10):
ORD: UA and AA

You came up with one, globally. I'm sure their respective networks are not almost duplicates of each other either.


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8080 times:

Hey, you asked for "an airport", and I gave you one.
It's gross injustice to say that BA and VS networks are "duplicates of each other": they are not! VS is flying only a fraction of the transatlantic flights BA has, and has no european flights at all. They actually do not compete in many markets.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8080 times:

I'm not familiar with UA/AA schedules out of ORD but there isn't one other airline that has same nationality direct competition out of it's main hub. Other than BA and VS.

Air France, Lufthansa, Singapore, Cathay...I dont think so. God help anyone that tried.


User currently offline74472 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8064 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 12):
Hey, you asked for "an airport", and I gave you one.
It's gross injustice to say that BA and VS networks are "duplicates of each other": they are not! VS is flying only a fraction of the transatlantic flights BA has, and has no european flights at all. They actually do not compete in many markets.

alright fella, keep your hair on. LOL

I did say long-haul and I mentioned the difference in frequencies.


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

No chance in hell. VS or should i say SRB will not forget what BA did in the 80's and 90's. VS's goals, and BA's goals are completly different.

I can safely say we will NEVER see VS cola on a BA flt (unless someone is stupid enough to buy the stuff and bring it onboard, it tastes horrid)


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7943 times:

It will probably occur shortly after the eminent Delta-Northwest merger.


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7759 times:

Actually VS considered bidding for BA in 2003.

When in May of that year VS and SRB announced that they were in discussions with BMI about a merger, SRB also announced that he had initially considered making a bid for BA, but decided that BMI would compliment VS better. I don't how serious he was.

Incidentally, in response to a possible VS/BMI merger, BA considered a bid for VS to ruin any possible deal between the two - BA were worried about the competition. BA knew that any bid for BMI would face regulatory problems, but a bid for VS would not.

Here is the article:
Airline Merger Plot Thickens -BBC News May 2003


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3224 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7758 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
and the monopolies commission would possibly put a stop to it too.

Why is there only one monopolies commission?



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineMonkeyboi From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 457 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7653 times:

They could always be maintained as two seperate brands if one purchased the other.

Provided I could keep my BA contract of employment and T&C's I wouldn't mind.  Wink


User currently offlineCleared2land4 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7488 times:

HAHA is this a joke.


United Airlines... "It's Time to Fly."
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

Aside from the fact this scenario is less likely than Iraq featuring in next week's 'Wish You Were Here,' why exactly would this be a merger? Surely a merger implies two equals? BA operate more daily flights between London -> Scotland alone than VS operate worldwide.


I need to get laid
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

What benefit would BA gain by buying VS? A more diverse long haul fleet? If another current thread is to be believed staff who bad mouth them to customers all the time? A division that focuses on the leisure business while they focus on premium class business? Some A380s that they do not want because they focus on the business market?

Where would SIA and SRB get the money to buy BA? And what would they want to buy them for any way?

The EU would not allow it, the British Office of Fair Trading would not allow it and the US anti-trust would not allow it.

The only way that a buy out could occur was if the alternative - the only alternative - was one or the other going bankrupt and out of business. Then the airline being bought would have no say in the matter and the competition authorities would eventually approve the merger no doubt with conditions.

Would it be successful? Probably not. In VS tried to impose its strategy on BA, disaster. If BA tried to impose its strategy on VS, disaster. If they tried to move towards one another filling an empty gap in the market . . . Well the more elderly amongst us all remember the Edsel automobile.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8683 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6000 times:

Air Tran and Delta @ MCO. WN and US @ PHL. US and DL @ BOS.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

While total fantasy-and who would be the very junior partner, however loud mouthed, PR addicted, bullshit spouting the CEO of the smaller entity might be?
Could the EU object?
Er....name me the German full service, long haul competitor to LH?
Or the French full service, long competitor to the 'Borg'.....sorry, AF?

Or would it be the usual one rule for them, another for the UK?
We can buy your companies in an EU open market, but, you cannot do the same.
Early 1990's, BA wanted a link with KLM, why was that not allowed but more recently, with AF, it was hey, go ahead..enjoy!

As for 'what BA did to VS' (called Capitalism), I am sorry to see VS America having so many objections to starting up, not least due to the propped up, winged versions of the mafia bitching.
Because apart from it being good for that market, Sir Loudmouth would get a dose a reality about 'dirty tricks' and common practice and how the two will be intertwined.
See him go bitching then!


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Lets not forget that SQ own 49% of VS!!

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