Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
VN Pilots Take A Nap - B777 Almost Shot Down  
User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20626 times:

According to a report of German Der Spiegel (German only), a Vietnam Airlines B777 was almost shot down over Czech Republic in April.

The plane was enroute from Hanoi to FRA, but did not communicate with ATC for 65 minutes. When they entered Czech airspace, they were not in their scheduled corridor. Czech airforce thus ordered 2 jets to chase the unidentified object. The jets were allowed to shoot the plane down, should it have turned out to be a threat.

However, when the jets reached the plane, they saw both pilots sleeping in the cockpit.

Vietnam Airlines said they could rule out that the pilots took a nap, as a VN policy says that an f/a should see after the pilots every 15 minutes. Still, the crew was suspended from duty.

The Spiegel report also tells about other scandals connected to VN. Maybe the article will become available in English soon.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTigerotor77W From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20599 times:

That would have been a catestrophy for itchy trigger fingers... but man! Not exactly the type of pilots I'd like to guide my international flights.

User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4679 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20599 times:

Who did wake them up ? Some firing from the fighter canon ?
Any info on the type of fighters ? I assume Gripens ?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13737 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20562 times:

The official Vietnam Airlines position is that the report is inaccurate and that they did not take a nap.

"the pilots had trouble operating communications equipment on entering European airspace, thus the plane could not receive signals sent from Czech ground station".

"The Czech air force jets flew up to assist the plane, which then flew on to Frankfurt as planned," he added.

Phuc said the stewardesses on the plane confirmed the pilots were not sleeping.

For "incorrect operation of communications equipment", the pilots were suspended and had to undertake compulsory training.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20523 times:

I heard about that this morning on the radio - unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a link then...

I can only say UNBELIEVABLE!!! Thank goodness that nothing happened!!!



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20102 times:

Sleeping VN pilots... hehe

When will they bring back Air Vietnam? They had better colors



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20063 times:

It doesn't seem likely, as the 777 has a crew alertness monitor.

The FMC monitors button presses on the EFIS control panel, the CDUs, the PTT switches and the MCP. If a certain time elapses without a switch being pressed, an EICAS advistory message is displayed. If there's still no response, there would be an EICAS caution message. If there's no response after that, there would be an EICAS warning message.

So if the pilots were asleep for 65 minutes, they'd be sleeping through some pretty loud alarms.


User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2905 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 19372 times:

just go http://babelfish.altavista.com/

and type the web adress and the whole article will translate


'' 200 passengers escaped from firing only scarcely

By Marina May

Czech fighter planes already were in air. Their order: the firing of an airplane, which did not keep a funkkontakt. But the pilots of the Viet Nam airline machine, which was on the way to Frankfurt, are to have held a Nickerchen.


As admits only now became, in April over 200 aircraft passengers of the vietnamesischen airline Viet Nam airlines on the flight from Hanoi came to Frankfurt/Main only scarcely with the life of it. After a report of the vietnamesischen on-line magazine "Viet Nam Net" a Boing 777 had had no funkkontakt at the night from 17. to 18 April over the air spaces of the Ukraine, Poland and Tschechiens 65 minutes long to the soil. Because the machine deviated from the air corridor, it should be shot, stated "Viet Nam Net".



DPA
Airplane Viet Nam airlines: Sleeping pilots, smuggling copilot?
January Pejsek of the Prager Ministry of Defense essentially confirms the incident opposite MIRROR ON-LINE ONE. At 5.45 o'clock 18 of April would have sighted the Czech Air Force an unknown flying object, which had not communicated with the flugkontrollzentrum in Prague. Two fighter planes would have taken up pursuit immediately, since one had proceeded from a military threat. But the object had proven as civilian vietnamesisches airliner. Again flight contact existed, explains few minutes after beginning of the escort January Pejsek.

According to vietnamesischen medium reports the surprised Czech fighter plane pilots saw that the two pilots of the passenger plane a Nickerchen held. "you had slept and let one hour and five minutes long the airplane by the autopilot steer", write "Viet Nam Net". That is confirmed nor disclaimed by the Czech Ministry of Defense neither.

Scandal-vibrated state airline

The national airline Viet Nam airlines confirmed opposite MIRROR ON-LINE ONE the loss of the funkkontaktes, disclaims however that the pilots would have slept. Speaker Arnaud Pohier: "that is impossible. We have to supply a regulation, after which the hostesses visit every 15 minutes the pilot cab, around the flight captains." This argumentation represents also the Hanoier flight safety authority opposite Tschechien. The entire crew was suspended nevertheless by the service. The flight captains and hostesses concerned can however the flight license get back, if they can successfully be after-trained.

According to vietnamesischen flight safety this is the first case of this kind with Viet Nam airline. Klaus shrubs, speaker of the airport in Frankfurt, confirms the intact landing of the machine on 18 April at 7.30 o'clock with one hour of delay.

The incident became admits, after the national airline is afflicted since monthly beginning in Viet Nam von Skandalen. Media had uncovered that the enterprise children of high-ranking coworkers, of party officials and Ministry coworkers had gesponsert illegally a school stay abroad. This fact granted the airline in the meantime.

Such kind of self-service by functionaries is far common in Viet Nam. Only in April a corruption scandal in the traffic Ministry flew up in million height. The deputy transport minister sits since then in detention. The functionaries, who had sent to their children on public expenses to the school abroad, are to pay the money back, were called it in Hanoi. The parliament examines whether the school stays were connected with corruption.

The state State of Viet Nam airlines put end down of the nineties successfully the Aschenputtel image and ascended by modern flight technology as well as the mechanism of numerous new airlines to an internationally recognized enterprise. Flight safety, reliability, above all however the operation on board through Viet Nam inside in the traditional garbs and the eastern kitchen receive good notes by international goods testers.

Foreign exchange smuggling from Australia

But in this month the enterprise does not come from the headlines: In Italy it lost straight in civil proceedings against an Italian lawyer more than five million euro. The lawyer had a contract with a subsidiary of Viet Nam airlines, which went in the meantime to bankruptcy, and deplored now the nut/mother company on payment of damages. The aviation enterprise had taken the complaint and had not even appeared not serious to the process. Now it wants to insert appointment.

And since 3 June the vietnamesische copilot Tran Van sits hired in a remand centre in the Australian Sydney. It had tried to implement with the return flight from Sydney after Hanoi one half million US dollar in bar duty-free. Particularly embarrassingly: The Australian law refused a detention attendance to the official representatives of the airline particularly entered from Viet Nam with its coworker. "Viet Nam Net" wants to have experienced from Australian Ermittlern that "several pilots and hostesses help more frequently to bring cash in the country or abroad. The Ermittler has difficulties to clear such cases up."

In Australia one of the largest vietnamesischen foreign municipalities lives with more than 150,000 Migranten. The Auslandsvietnamesen supports its relatives in Viet Nam financially. Bank credit transfers are however connected with high fees, and in Viet Nam only few have a bank account, so that one must find other ways, to transfer the money.

"the scandals harm our image so far not", say Arnaud Pohier, speaker of Viet Nam airlines for Germany. "we have a good product and to register rising conversions."



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 19106 times:

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 3):
Phuc said the stewardesses on the plane confirmed the pilots were not sleeping.

Huhuhuhuhuh................phuc.

BAB silly 



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineJumbo747 From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18992 times:

Does anybody know what Czech air force pilots had to say.

User currently offlineWr70beh From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18992 times:

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
funkkontakt

Hmmm, funky contact?

Czech seems populated, I wonder what the possibility of casualties on the ground would have been if they did shoot the plane down.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18833 times:

I agree they couldnt have slept. The alams would have woken them up. Even I cant sleep on a plane unless I've been up 24hrs. Its the noise that keeps me awake.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineNeptunescar From Maldives, joined Dec 2003, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18483 times:

VN is rife with corruption; (mirroring whats going on in the govt recently) to even get a job there (including ground staff to pilots) bribes are required. apparently VN suspended service via DXB because of rampant crew smuggling of goods back to SGN and HAN.

the airline used to operate as a separate entity, the golden goose in VN's state run industries. in 2003, the airline was pulled under the Ministry of Transportation in Vietnam, and that was bad news. not only does it give officials at the MOT the ability to skim money off the carriers profits, safety, inflight service and virtually every aspect of the carrier have gone down hill since then. a contact who was arranging training programs at VN lost all his business when this move took place......

its not the first time pilots have fallen asleep: a good friend of mine is a pilot for VN, and on a return leg from ICN to SGN, he looked over at his co-pilot who was sound asleep.....had to shake him awake.



You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17654 times:

Quoting Neptunescar (Reply 12):
VN is rife with corruption; (mirroring whats going on in the govt recently) to even get a job there (including ground staff to pilots) bribes are required. apparently VN suspended service via DXB because of rampant crew smuggling of goods back to SGN and HAN.

Some what agree. VN pilots seem to be in thick of at the moment as VN pilot was detained in SYD over drugs.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/WORLD/Vie...rugs/2006/06/17/1149964779200.html


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6092 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17572 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

After what happened in 1983 with KAL 007, no Air Force in a democratic country will shoot down an aircraft confirmed to be civilian. Unless it is doing other stuff than cruising along happily. Besides the casualties on the ground, imagine the outrage over Czechia for shooting down a Boeing with 200 passengers. They would probably escort it out from their airspace until it reaches another country, where a new escort will be waiting. They'll follow along and do the same until it either starts with funky business or whatever is going on sorts itself out.

The Helios plane was never shot down, although it came from a conflictive area directly towards Athens.

That's the kind of fighter pilots and ground command you want, not a Tom Cruise style Top Gun.

I don't believe they were asleep, but what was going on?



MGGS
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16859 times:

Quoting Wr70beh (Reply 10):
Czech seems populated, I wonder what the possibility of casualties on the ground would have been if they did shoot the plane down.

My guess is they'd try to shoot it down somewhere more rural before it got somewhere more densely populated - at least you'd hope.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
After what happened in 1983 with KAL 007, no Air Force in a democratic country will shoot down an aircraft confirmed to be civilian.

After what happened in 2001 with the world trade center, oh yes they will.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16859 times:

Doesn't it occur to you that seeing pilots sleeping in the flight deck would look like they have been killed and left there or died from lack of oxygen, it would look obivious.

User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16662 times:

Question is how many times does this happen every week, but they wake up in a matter of mins?

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6092 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16582 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 15):
After what happened in 2001 with the world trade center, oh yes they will.



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 15):
Doesn't it occur to you that seeing pilots sleeping in the flight deck would look like they have been killed and left there or died from lack of oxygen, it would look obivious.

Ok, so, then, why wasn't it shot down?

Keep watching movies.

9/11 was a totally different scenario. Why was then the Helios plane not shot down?

Besides, with a plane flying in cruise level, with no excess speed or agressive maneuvers, it is not going to be shot down. Not at that stage. Besides, what's the point? you shoot down a B-777 and what do you do with the fall out? And I mean the fiery pieces, not the public relations fall out.



MGGS
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15305 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 17):
Question is how many times does this happen every week, but they wake up in a matter of mins?

I've heard stories where both pilots being asleep. It does happen although nobody admits it unless they are telling the story to close friends. They don't actually fall into sleep they just get a shut eye for 10-30 minutes, helps a lot and makes a big difference in keeping the fatigue down. As far as the story goes, I wouldn't believe the airline, especially one from a 3rd world country who would rather cover it up rather than admit they have pilots who don't know how to operate the airplane and communicate. Frankly I don't know how pilots could make a mistake with the 777, it's so automated all you need to do is push a button and the plane does everything! Good thing they didn't fly over Russia or something.


User currently offlineJunior747 From Malta, joined Apr 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14687 times:

I believe that they could have fallen asleep...but how didn't they wake up? It's shamefull for VN....and harmful too, I for one am not planing on flying Vietnam Airlines any time soon, that's for sure!

Regards,

Junior



Pilot of 'Lady Guinness' - 9H-UMR
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14596 times:

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
a Boing 777

Whats a Boing 777?



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14551 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
It doesn't seem likely, as the 777 has a crew alertness monitor.

The FMC monitors button presses on the EFIS control panel, the CDUs, the PTT switches and the MCP. If a certain time elapses without a switch being pressed, an EICAS advistory message is displayed. If there's still no response, there would be an EICAS caution message. If there's no response after that, there would be an EICAS warning message.

So if the pilots were asleep for 65 minutes, they'd be sleeping through some pretty loud alarms.

You seem quite familiar with the 777 systems (pilot, engineer ?). Your explanation is very interesting.
I'm not sure we'll get an acurate report of VN anytime soon...

FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1313 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14498 times:

I think if you have problems with yor R/T equipment you are supposed to re-dial your sqwark number to a universally recognised number so ATC are aware that you can not transmit.

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14329 times:

Whatever really happened, I'm glad that it's forbidden to shoot down aircraft in a situation like that in Germany. It shows that such actions would only lead to shooting down non-hijacked aircraft. Real terrorists would not fly around for an hour without talking. They would pretend that nothing had happened and then strike their target before anybody actually noticed the airplane was off track.

25 PanHAM : no, radio contact. I checked both threads, here and in the German a.de and may have over read it, but no one sweems to have questioned the fact that
26 Dufo : "the pilots had trouble operating communications equipment on entering European airspace, thus the plane could not receive signals sent from Czech gro
27 Newagebird : hey theres vietnamese cadets at my flying school and they dont even know wat a 727 is...they thought it was a 2 engine airliner! Dun wanna stir up tro
28 Avbooks : "pilots not being able to operate communication equipment" is quite a silly excuse! How much less would they be able to operate the rest of the aircra
29 IDISA : OK, let's get to the point: Perfecrly true. Imagine yourself on a 12/13 hours non-stop flight, what would you do? We are not talkin' about heavy sleep
30 GQfluffy : What do you really think happened to to United 93?
31 Honza : Since last radio contact with the aircraft was over Ukraine and it flew over Slovakia uncontrolled, the fighters were scrambled only to make the crew
32 Honza : ...sorry, over Poland...
33 AR385 : I believe it was abducted by aliens, the people on board substituted by synthetic humans, while a look-alike plane actually crashed.
34 Parabolica : This is an amazing, and frightening story. I would like to think, all melodramatic news reporting aside, that the Czech airtraffic controllers and Air
35 HAWK21M : Whats the Official Regulatory authority Findings.Was the Crew Asleep or Was there Equipment Problems. regds MEL
36 TheSorcerer : Don't fighter pilots have handheld cameras with them? If so, the fighter pilots could have taken pictures and remove all doubt. Dominic
37 MCIGuy : Man, I would NOT want to be behind the stick of one of thos MiGs. I'd have visions of KAL 007 racing through my mind. Would those jokers be prosecuted
38 FlyDreamliner : My point (which you missed) was this: Prior to 9/11, unless the aircraft flew over a military installation, they wouldn't have drempt of firing on a
39 Post contains images BA787 : Bit worrying that Stil thts what autopilots for Tom
40 AR385 : Ok, the above, IS your point. Which I still disagre with, but it is a valid point. I would not have questioned that. The above, is what I replied to
41 MCIGuy : Oh yeah, obviously. No, I meant the VN pilots, as in, what if it were AA, UA, DL, CO, etc. and it happened here.
42 A342 : Sadly the MiG-21MFNs were retired last year. now they have Saab JAS-39 Gripens.
43 XXXX10 : I agree, it is possible that we will never find out what happened, VN are not likely to be forthcoming in any investigation. If these pilots were asl
44 MigFan : Was it the Gripens that were tasked to intercept the airliner? /M
45 Airevents : I am just wondering, should I find it more frightening that people fall asleep or that two pilots, highly qualified hopefully, are unable to operate t
46 Post contains images Honza : affirmative!
47 GQfluffy : Thats nice, but I'd bet real money it was shot down. As much as I believe that the pax stormed the terrorists, my theory is they were fighting for co
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Joke Almost Causes Helo To Be Shot Down posted Sat Jun 28 2003 06:01:52 by Beefmoney
Scary Incident, Pilots Battling Autopilot B777 posted Sat Sep 17 2005 01:24:51 by Keesje
Commercial A/c Shot Down At War posted Sat Apr 23 2005 18:55:11 by B752fanatic
Biman Plan For 2 More Planes Shot Down posted Wed Jan 5 2005 19:14:43 by AirbusCanada
? About Iran Air A300 That Was Shot Down.... posted Wed Dec 15 2004 03:45:02 by Pilotaydin
Windshear Almost Brings Down NWA DC9...! posted Sat Jul 10 2004 01:32:46 by Deltadude8
Governor's Plane Nearly Shot Down Last Month posted Thu Jul 8 2004 15:07:04 by Zrb2
Violate D-Day Airspace And You Will Be Shot Down! posted Mon May 31 2004 07:51:09 by Clipperhawaii
52 Years Later, Shot-down Swedish DC-3 Surfaces posted Fri Mar 19 2004 18:35:34 by Starlionblue
Flash Airlines Shot Down? posted Sat Jan 17 2004 03:27:30 by AirxLiban